Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #209

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Richard Allen has been arrested and charged with the murders of Abby and Libby

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

PICTURES OF ABBY AND LIBBY
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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video
Hidden True Crime
Lawyer Lee
Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tricia]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

Click here for The Rules

 

[Niner]

Friday, November 1st:
*Trial continues (Day 13) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Initial bond @ $20M on 10/27/22. On 2/16/23 held with no bond.
Amended charges (on 1/18/24/granted on 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Plead not guilty.
Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer [8/1/24] of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial. Carroll County
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon. Prosecutors rested their case on 10/31/24. Defense began their case on 10/31/24.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. One alternate was dismissed for a family emergency on 10/25/24. 3 Alternates left (3 women). Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-11 (10/18-10/30/24) reference post #47 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ders-richard-allen-arrested-208.727583/page-3
10/31/24 Thursday, Trial Day 12: Today jurors will hear 2 hours of prison [Westville] phone calls where Allen confesses to the murders of Abby & Libby. The calls are between Allen, his wife & his mother. State is expected to rest at the end of this testimony.
*The State moves to admit an exhibit that the defense objects to, saying they have never seen it before. Gull does not admit that exhibit. The State moves to admit photos of Allen from his phone, arguing that they would like the jury to be able to see what Allen looked like before his arrest. The defense wants the dates on the photos removed. Judge Gull says the defense can review & the matter will be revisited after lunch. Prosecutor Nick McLeland tells the judge they are planning to admit 7 DOC phone calls to Allen’s wife & mother. The defense objects because they say the prosecution is not offering one of the phone calls in the time where Allen said he is innocent & describes being mentally tortured & “killed” at the Westfield Correctional Unit. Judge Gull admits the calls over the defense’s objection & says the defense can play the omitted call if they so choose & their argument would be more valid if the state was trying to admit incomplete phone calls. Defense attorney Jennifer Auger references another exhibit, which is Allen’s Google search history. Gull says that will be handled later, again, after lunch.
State witnesses: ISP Master Trooper Brian Harshman [listened to over 700 calls made by Allen].
*Seven audio tapes from inside the Correctional Facility were played for jurors. On the tapes is Allen talking to his wife in Nov. 14, 2022, April 2 [w/mother], 3, 13, 2023, May 10, 2023 & June 5 & 11, 2023. There are several admissions of guilt, but Allen provides no details. The prosecution plays the “down the hill” video for Harshman. Harshman is viewing the stabilized version, which is time-stamped Feb. 13, 2017. He tells the jury he recognizes the voice from Allen’s jail phone calls, and that the voice is the same as bridge guy.
*McLeland asks Harshman if that over lunch today he watched a video of Allen screaming & swearing in the Cass County jail recently, saying to a guard that he was going f-ing kill him. Defense attorney Rozzi objects, saying he was not aware of this evidence. He requests a sidebar. Afternoon testimony delayed after the defense objected to the prosecution’s plans to play a video. After a nearly 10-minute discussion with attorneys from both sides, Judge Gull said she would watch the video in her chambers before deciding if the jury can see it.
*Judge Gull enters the courtroom and says she has viewed the video. Rozzi objects, Gull says she is sustaining the objection and the video will not be shown to the jury for now. Prosecutors rested their case.
Defense witnesses: Cheyenne Mill, formerly Cheyenne Ingles, of Winamac. Mill & her best friend went hiking Feb. 13, 2017. Teresa Liebert. She said she lives near Brad Weber.
*Judge Gull ruled she’s allow jurors to hear about Allen’s Google searches & denied letting the jury see photos of him before he was arrested.
For more info see post #179 (Day 12 blog) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ders-richard-allen-arrested-208.727583/page-9
Trial continues on Friday, 11/1/24 @ 9am.

 

[susiQ]

I'm just listening to Lawyer Lee's update for yesterday, and at around the 50 min mark in her video, she explains why the prosecution moved to admit this. They argued the defense had opened the door to it, during their cross-examination of Harshman, when Rozzi asked him;

1. have you been listening to phone calls of his in the last 3 weeks, and would this be a really stressful time coming into trial?
2. have there been times where he's proclaimed his innocence?
3. have you ever seen him pose a threat to anyone at Westville?

Apparently, what NM wanted to introduce did not happen at Westville and was not given as discovery to the D. There was no time for the D to ascertain if the video had been edited either to omit what preceded an “event.” I believe JG absolutely made the right decision to deny it from being entered into evidence. Slimy move by the P. IMO

 

[acehard]

I'm just listening to Lawyer Lee's update for yesterday, and at around the 50 min mark in her video, she explains why the prosecution moved to admit this. They argued the defense had opened the door to it, during their cross-examination of Harshman, when Rozzi asked him;

1. have you been listening to phone calls of his in the last 3 weeks, and would this be a really stressful time coming into trial?
2. have there been times where he's proclaimed his innocence?
3. have you ever seen him pose a threat to anyone at Westville?

Good catch! It still shouldn't be allowed though since it wasn't cleared before. The judge also stopped the defense from asking/playing the 'innocent claims' recordings during the prosecutions turn. MOO

 

[Poedelini]

Gotta support your “innocent husband.”

She has so much power and she doesn’t realize it. He’s reluctant to confess because he’s afraid of losing her, and she believes him because she thinks the confessions are a result of his mental state.

He wanted to give it all up to police. Too late now.

I think it is also the snowballing effect of social media and the media. Specially after some motions of the defence, RA was portrait innocent and was thrown under the bus by LE, the judge or whatever else that sticks. That poor guy that got picked out of some files. RA has alot of supporters. Maybe she felled compelled to stand by RA, because it seemed like there was overwhelming evidence that RA did not do it. Except it was a delusion.

 

[mrjitty]

Yes, I think this is the third or fourth time they have asked to be able to present this Odinist scenario. Each time it was ruled that there was not enough ADMISSIBLE evidence connecting their suspects to the murders. But they keep asking anyway but without submitting an offer of proof. Or a solid offer of proof.

it was a huge tell that they didn’t even call the witness who supposedly provides the crucial confession at the 3 day hearing. People still refer to that witness as the backbone of the SODDI theory when they don’t even have that evidence.

They wasted nearly 2 years on a giant hoax

 

[sunshineray]

Why? For what logical purpose would they charge little CVS guy RA, ignoring everyone else they've ever investigated? And why then would that unknown and mentally and addictively challenged little unknown CVS guy decide to help them out by confessing and incriminate himself upwards of 700 times, 700!?

How'd he know about the white van? That's a big one. That info was never in his discovery (that he supposedly read every page of and knows everything he confessed from) nor was it sonething his lawyers and their staff knew until after RA confessed upwards of 700 times.

And why, if he's such a changed man (according to some who are linked in this thread) is he continuing to act out in County Jail and threatening to kill his guard?

What's the boogeyman State done and why to frame little CVS guy RA? What's all behind that accusation?

Edit to this post:
I meant to say upwards of 170 confessions and incriminating statements out of 700 recordings. My apologies for that error.

 

[sunshineray]

After, because that’s how they roll it appears .

You don't think the defense checked to see how many black Ford Focus vehicles, like their client's, there were before the trial? Is that how their investigators roll? Was that missing from the discovery the defense turned over, in error or violation?

 

[Betty P]

He said he was interrupted by a van, when he was alongside the creek, right by the Weber's driveway. Then we find out that B Weber did drive his van down that driveway around that same time.

That seems to be something that RA could not have known unless he was Actually there. Testimony was that RA did NOT have anything in Discovery about that van before he made that confession. Dr W. knew nothing about that van either.

I think that will have a strong impact upon the jury. IMO

The van driving by, the interruption of the attack in progress, the moving of the victims and crime scene across the creek, the timeline - all of those pieces were put together by RA when he explained what happened after he was spooked by the van driving by. He’s the only person who explained the how and why of the progression of the attack. He’s the only living person who could.

 

[sunshineray]

Defense calls first 2 witnesses after state rests its case in Delphi murders trial

It's been two years since multiple law enforcement agencies announced Richard Allen's arrest in the Delphi killings. His trial continues Thursday.

www.indystar.com

There's no denying RA saw the white van, proven to be driven by BW at the correct and confirmed time, while RA had the kidnapped girls in his possession, under gunpoint, down the hill with the intention of raping them.

The white van interrupted him.

There IS no other logical or reasonable explanation for what occured next except that after being spooked, RA forced them across the creek and murdered them...JUST like he's stated he did, over and over again.

All just my logical opinion.

 

[FrostedGlass]

He reached a deal with prosecutors. If he successfully completed a pre-trial diversion program, the case would be dismissed.

Standard with misdemeanors like that, unfortunately.

Charges dismissed against man accused in Delphi murders evidence leak

Mitchell Thomas Westerman’s misdemeanor conversion charge has been dismissed by a Johnson County judge.

www.wndu.com

We don't know if he completed his program.
A motion to dismiss was entered and granted on 10/23.
The final compliance hearing on 10/30 was cancelled.
41D03-2311-CM-001119

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[Tortoise]

I know next to nothing about guns, but is it possible to have two bullets in the chamber, one that he might have ejected on the bridge into the river below, more or less at the point he says he did something with the gun, and the second one where it was found to be amongst the leaves on the ground? I can see him making threats with the gun at both locations to get the girls' cooperation. If it's possible he had two bullets in the chamber.

 

[sunshineray]

interesting T. i can see why it wasn’t allowed though.

I find it very odd why the jury is not allowed to see a picture of what RA looked like at the time of the murders? Since Libby's video has been admitted into evidence, are they not allowed to judge accurately if they believe it looks like him at the time? Why would that be? Just wondering.

 

[iamshadow21]

I know next to nothing about guns, but is it possible to have two bullets in the chamber, one that he might have ejected on the bridge into the river below, more or less at the point he says he did something with the gun, and the second one where it was found to be amongst the leaves on the ground? I can see him making threats with the gun at both locations to get the girls' cooperation. If it's possible he had two bullets in the chamber.

I think the only way you can have two in the barrel of a handgun is if the first one is a dud round that doesn't have quite enough oomph to leave the gun.

The chamber for unspent rounds is only big enough for one, the rest are in the magazine.

MOO

 

[Tricia]

The new Delphi poll is up. CLICK HERE!

 

[statt#1]

I think the only way you can have two in the barrel of a handgun is if the first one is a dud round that doesn't have quite enough oomph to leave the gun.

The chamber for unspent rounds is only big enough for one, the rest are in the magazine.

MOO

I wanted to respond to this as I've thought about it over the past few days.

When a semi-automatic firearm is actually fired, the process is quite violent, and the ejected casing is normally thrown to the right quite a distance, I've seen 5 feet away up to maybe 15 feet or so away and to the right.....Sometimes this event, in certain guns, will throw that ejected casing more forward of the shooter, sometimes more backwards and to the right, and sometimes, under circumstances, a shooter will take that casing to his/her face, or it'll fly over his/her head, or straight forward, or even down a shirt, which, by the way, burns because it's rather hot right after being fired.

Now, the entire process of ejection changes under a 'manual' racking of a gun, because it's not as violent of a process, it's slower, done by hand, and in this case, it's not a lightweight casing being ejected, rather the entire round, and it's heavier. This causes the round to behave differently when coming out of the gun, and it doesn't "fly" to the right like a casing would during live fire. Some times it just pops out to the right, or it may 'dribble' out and fall straight down, or sideways, or backwards.

So, my conclusion, as a firearms aficionado, AND, I've had this happen to me more than one time, an ejected round, or casing, can easily hit the shooter in the forehead, or land in a shirt pocket, or a jacket pocket. Now, I'm not sayin' this is what happened here, but I think it very possible.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I find it very odd why the jury is not allowed to see a picture of what RA looked like at the time of the murders? Since Libby's video has been admitted into evidence, are they not allowed to judge accurately if they believe it looks like him at the time? Why would that be? Just wondering.

There was no time stamp on the pictures so the jury would have no idea of when the pics were taken. Hard to prove what they don't know.

 

[minor4th]

There's no denying RA saw the white van, proven to be driven by BW at the correct and confirmed time, while RA had the kidnapped girls in his possession, under gunpoint, down the hill with the intention of raping them.

The white van interrupted him.

There IS no other logical or reasonable explanation for what occured next except that after being spooked, RA forced them across the creek and murdered them...JUST like he's stated he did, over and over again.

All just my logical opinion.

I’m still not sure he actually said “white” van. Dr Walla only testified that he saw a van - not a white van.