Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212

[Tricia]

Last chance to vote in the latest Websleuths Delphi poll
CLICK HERE to take the poll

 

[MiniMoo]

There was no video or audio released until way later.

When RA talked to Dan Dulin only a picture of a man had been released (A screenshot of BG from Libby's phone) that LE were interested in talking to. No one knew where the picture came from at that time either.

Even with a still image because I would be wondering, if I was the perpetrator, is there anymore than just that still shot?

JMO MOO JMT

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Whether or not the phone had water damage is not related to the data retrieved from the Knowledge C database. The data shows a physical hand on Libby’s phone physically plugged in headphones. It logs both when the headphones are plugged in and unplugged. The witness is more than qualified and is a former FBI digital analyst. This water damage narrative is a totally different issue and has nothing to do with the Knowledge C database. Furthermore, Cecil didn’t even finish the cell phone extraction, which was completed by Eldrige. They had 7 years to do this, but didn’t finish it. I’m very confused how attacking credible witnesses is conducive to getting justice for Abby and Libby? I want the right person to be held accountable. I don’t believe being pro law enforcement means attack law enforcement that doesn’t reinforce my beliefs. I wish LE had been more thorough and responsible about evidence in the beginning, but let’s avoid pretending they didn’t make mistakes and that those trying to discover more years later are the baddies. JMHO.

Source with timestamps:

2:01:34 Stacy Eldrige former FBI digital examiner

2:04:39 Reviewed the Oct 2017 extraction,
Cecils reports and deposition

2:10:40 Downloaded Knowledge C Exhibit
TTT extraction E227

2:12:30 Cecil's report review, Feb 13 5:44 & Feb 14 4:33AM E QQQ? AT&T historical log

2:17:20 What did AT&T log tell us about the connection

2:21:03 No evidence of when calls were missed, voice mails, pings

2:25:30 Audio output Knowledge C, wired headphone being inserted 5:45-10:32pm

2:29:30 Any alternate explanation to human hands? No.

Bravo! This case was the first one I followed when I first joined WS and I was hooked. All I want is for the right person or persons who were responsible for the deaths of Abby and Libby to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and punished accordingly.
One needs an open mind and consider both the Prosecution and the Defense cases and be willing to weigh things out before passing judgement on a defendant. I suppose for some it is just a competition to see who’s right and who’s wrong in an effort to make themselves feel superior. I would hope that we’re all here to find truth, beyond reasonable doubt and then let justice be served.
Remember the idiom…”Better ten guilty men go free than an innocent be wrongfully imprisoned". IMO

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Yes, I am insistent because it is common sense.

First of all, google " i-phone stuck in headphone mode." It is a very common glitch in iPhones that the 'headphone mode' is accidentally turned on.

How to Fix iPhone Stuck in Headphone Mode​

You know no headphones are attached; why doesn't your iPhone?


Clean the headphone jack. The iPhone thinks headphones are plugged in when it detects there's something in the headphone jack. It's possible something else in the jack could send a false signal.

If lint or other gunk has built up in the headphone jack and is tricking the iPhone into thinking something else is there:

Check for water damage. If cleaning the headphone jack didn't help, you could have a different hardware problem. It's possible the phone has been damaged by water or other moisture getting inside.

Get Your iPhone out of Headphone Mode

Is your iPhone stuck in headphone mode even though nothing's plugged into the headphone jack? Solve the mystery with these troubleshooting tips.

www.lifewire.com

OKAY, so we can see it is a common problem that can very easily explain why the headphone jack can send a false signal.

SO IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE FOR THE D EXPERT TO CLAIM 'IT HAS TO BE' HUMAN HANDS PLUGGING IN HEADPHONES---Especially when that makes no sense given the other solid circumstances. IMO

 

[photographer4]

Does this mean that when Abigail Williams was murdered, if the killer was right-handed, they stood in front of Abby facing her if the cut was made from right to left?

I don’t think Dr. kohr knew which hand was dominant for the killer:

“Rozzi noted that Kohr could not tell if the person who cut either girl was left- or right-handed.” - 'I don't know' | Investigator describes unexplained gap in data from Libby's phone | Day 5 of Delphi murders trial for suspect Richard Allen

 

[photographer4]

This apparently "catatonic", chained man is the man who very likely planned and then murdered two girls on a warm afternoon in February because he couldn't leave witnesses to his planned and failed sexual assault. He thought that he would never get caught, even posing for photos in front of wanted sketches. Seven years later, a volunteer filing girl discovered the mis-filed document for Richard Allen who lives on White-something road. No longer cleared.

Richard Allen intentionally lost weight when first incarcerated. He would skip 3 meals, and there was no record on file of missed meals. After skipping a 4th meal, it was recorded, so he missed 3 meals often without triggering an alert that he may be trying to lose weight (or not eating properly). That sounds calculated.

Given the level of psychological manipulation and abuse RA exerted on prison staff, his wife and his mother, after receiving legal-discovery; after realizing that he got caught ... complaining that he's chained up for murder? Acting out because he wants better conditions?

Richard Allen acted so pathetic in 2023 that other prisoners taunted him. It looks like RA will do anything to be labeled "psychotic", rather than a pedophile murderer, because his wife and mother will probably forgive him if murdering two teenage girls after visiting his mother was a psychotic moment.

From your post - snipped to quote by me: “Given the level of psychological manipulation and abuse RA exerted on prison staff, his wife and his mother, ”

With respect, do you have a link to show that he engaged in psychological manipulation and abuse of his wife and mother? I am pretty sure far behind but I didn’t think we had any evidence at all about any sort of abuse - physical or otherwise by RA towards his wife or mother?? Thanks in advance.

 

[katydid23]

Whether or not the phone had water damage is not related to the data retrieved from the Knowledge C database. The data shows a physical hand on Libby’s phone physically plugged in headphones. It logs both when the headphones are plugged in and unplugged.

It does NOT show that a physical hand physically plugged anything in. I wish the P had seen this claim earlier, WHICH WAS WITHHELD FROM THEM, because I think this is a trick.

The witness tried to spin this, IMO.

The headphone notification only knows that something was 'inserted' in the jack----it can't possibly know HOW it was inserted. There are no videos or pictures of the event. How would they know if it was human hands or not?

And we know it does not actually have to be real headphones because those 'headphone mode' notifications sometimes turn on even when it is only dirt or water in the jack.

There is an alert sent to the mode settings when 'something' is sensed in the jack. Anything filling up that space can send that alert.

I think the D is trying to slip this untruth in there, and maybe that's why they rested their case so suddenly. No time for the P to continue questioning that statement. I hope they address it in closings.

The witness is more than qualified and is a former FBI digital analyst. This water damage narrative is a totally different issue and has nothing to do with the Knowledge C database.

I disagree. The knowledge C database is simply the printout of all of the notifications/commands/etc.

Furthermore, Cecil didn’t even finish the cell phone extraction, which was completed by Eldrige. They had 7 years to do this, but didn’t finish it. I’m very confused how attacking credible witnesses is conducive to getting justice for Abby and Libby? I want the right person to be held accountable. I don’t believe being pro law enforcement means attack law enforcement that doesn’t reinforce my beliefs. I wish LE had been more thorough and responsible about evidence in the beginning, but let’s avoid pretending they didn’t make mistakes and that those trying to discover more years later are the baddies. JMHO.

Source with timestamps:

2:01:34 Stacy Eldrige former FBI digital examiner

2:04:39 Reviewed the Oct 2017 extraction,
Cecils reports and deposition

2:10:40 Downloaded Knowledge C Exhibit
TTT extraction E227

2:12:30 Cecil's report review, Feb 13 5:44 & Feb 14 4:33AM E QQQ? AT&T historical log

2:17:20 What did AT&T log tell us about the connection

2:21:03 No evidence of when calls were missed, voice mails, pings

2:25:30 Audio output Knowledge C, wired headphone being inserted 5:45-10:32pm

2:29:30 Any alternate explanation to human hands? No.

There was no indication above that the phone was unlocked. You can't listen to music without doing so first.

I do not believe that the notification at 2:25 is anything other than the standard 'headphone notification' ----which is created by an alert that 'something' is detected in the headphone jack.

I do not believe that the i-phone can differentiate between a human hand plugging in earphones and a gust of wind moving debris/water into the jack , and it alerting the headphone notification. IMO

Of course the Defense expert is going to say there is no alternate explanation. That's their job. But if they had been confronted in cross they would have conceded, IMO.

 

[technicallymissing]

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen on Trial: Day Seventeen: The Rebuttal

We discuss the seventeenth day of Richard Allen's trial. The defense rested-- and the prosecution offered three rebuttal witnesses. Support The Murder Sheet by...

murdersheetpodcast.com

Interesting bit on today's episode of TMS at about 54:22 above
Apparently Dr. Martin (the psychiatrist who prescribed RA Haldol in prison) said on the stand today that RA was conveying to him, and possibly others, that "one of his lawyers was a good cop, one of his lawyers was a bad cop". Rozzi was quick to call that "pure speculation".

 

[katydid23]

From your post - snipped to quote by me: “Given the level of psychological manipulation and abuse RA exerted on prison staff, his wife and his mother, ”

With respect, do you have a link to show that he engaged in psychological manipulation and abuse of his wife and mother? I am pretty sure far behind but I didn’t think we had any evidence at all about any sort of abuse - physical or otherwise by RA towards his wife or mother?? Thanks in advance.

There was at least one incident where KA called 911 and it was reported that RA had been drinking. He ended up going in for some kind of treatment I believe.

Dr Westcutt called him a fragile egg because of his emotional fragility, severe depressive state, separation anxiety, fear of failure, and meltdowns. This was all described before he was incarcerated.

It was said that he would get promoted in jobs but have emotional breakdowns sometimes where he'd be on the floor crying in a fetal position and his wife has to help him recover. Then he'd be demoted.

He also talked of suicide during those dark times.

I think that whole thing can be a form of emotional manipulation. Especially if he was severely depressed but also ultra dependent upon his wife and mother. IMO, saying you want to kill yourself can be manipulative when used to control others.

 

[MiniMoo]

It does NOT show that a physical hand physically plugged anything in. I wish the P had seen this claim earlier, WHICH WAS WITHHELD FROM THEM, because I think this is a trick.

The witness tried to spin this, IMO.

(Snipped)

Nothing was withheld from the P.

That witness went off of the exact data or read out Cecil and the first one extracted - nothing more. LE extracted the data and lost a major part of it from the first go - it probably should have been handled by the FBI really.

Not the States doing nor the Defense, but LE.

From what I can decipher Cecil was aware of it, but just didn't know what it all meant or how to read it.

To me, Googling an answer during a short break should not have been admissible 1000% - Cecil had no idea what that read out meant and had to do something about it.

I cannot believe Google was allowed in!

The FBI agent knew how to read it and did state the entire extract would have been preferable, but more or less as I understand it she could only work with the extracts she was given.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[katydid23]

Nothing was withheld from the P.

That witness went off of the exact data or read out Cecil and the first one extracted - nothing more. LE extracted the data and lost a major part of it from the first go - it probably should have been handled by the FBI really.

Not the States doing nor the Defense, but LE.

From what I can decipher Cecil was aware of it, but just didn't know what it all meant or how to read it.

To me, Googling an answer during a short break should not have been admissible 1000% - Cecil had no idea what that read out meant and had to do something about it.

I cannot believe Google was allowed in!

The FBI agent knew how to read it and did state the entire extract would have been preferable, but more or less as I understand it she could only work with the extracts she was given.

JMO MOO JMT

But that does not change the fact that the extract printout cannot prove that human hands touched the phone.

That is kind of misleading imo. If the question was," is there any way to insert headphones without using hands?", then NO is the correct answer.

But another question should be, "is there any way an iPhone might go into headphone mode without actually having headphones inserted? "

Because that would be YES, there are other ways. And coincidentally, the I-phone getting wet or dirty is one other way.

I don't think Eldridge can know there were really headphones inserted by hands. I also don't think the phone was ever unlocked, so the headphones were not being used if there even were any.

Why would someone leave headphones in for 5 hours, but never unlock the phone to listen to anything?

 

[MiniMoo]

But that does not change the fact that the extract printout cannot prove that human hands touched the phone.

That is kind of misleading imo. If the question was," is there any way to insert headphones without using hands?", then NO is the correct answer.

But another question should be, "is there any way an iPhone might go into headphone mode without actually having headphones inserted? "

Because that would be YES, there are other ways. And coincidentally, the I-phone getting wet or dirty is one other way.

I don't think Eldridge can know there were really headphones inserted by hands. I also don't think the phone was ever unlocked, so the headphones were not being used if there even were any.

Why would someone leave headphones in for 5 hours, but never unlock the phone to listen to anything?

JMT - I think it is the Knowledge C base that proves it had to be human.

Water and dirt it seems can put out a false reading of inputing a cable in the socket, but it doesn't explain the data in the Knowledge C base.

Socket only (false reading if water or dirt) from what I understand not the Analytical section or Knowledge C base.

As to why? Nothing about that crime scene makes sense to me at all really including headphones.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[mrjitty]

The photo, taken in a sequence with others, indicates Wilbur arrived at the bridge at 12:25 p.m., according to News 8’s Kyla Russell.

Wilbur said she walked from Freedom Bridge to the Monon High Bridge but did not see “Bridge Guy” or Abby and Libby on her walk.

RSBM. The Prosecutors hit hard on this point in their latest podcast. The D's own witnesses help to establish that no one saw Bridge Guy who was on the trails outside of the narrow window of 1.30pm until just after 2 (the Bridge Guy video is the last sighting until he is seen on the Road by SC). No one saw another Bridge Guy, and no one saw two Bridge Guys.

Per Alice, this is why the D has no witnesses in the key minutes - because all those people saw Bridge Guy.

She ends up saying at the close of the podcast that this is actually not a remarkable case in her experience - and normally these plead out. It should have been solved in the first week or so.

MOO

@1 hour 40 approx

 

[sunshineray]

Whether or not the phone had water damage is not related to the data retrieved from the Knowledge C database. The data shows a physical hand on Libby’s phone physically plugged in headphones. It logs both when the headphones are plugged in and unplugged. The witness is more than qualified and is a former FBI digital analyst. This water damage narrative is a totally different issue and has nothing to do with the Knowledge C database. Furthermore, Cecil didn’t even finish the cell phone extraction, which was completed by Eldrige. They had 7 years to do this, but didn’t finish it. I’m very confused how attacking credible witnesses is conducive to getting justice for Abby and Libby? I want the right person to be held accountable. I don’t believe being pro law enforcement means attack law enforcement that doesn’t reinforce my beliefs. I wish LE had been more thorough and responsible about evidence in the beginning, but let’s avoid pretending they didn’t make mistakes and that those trying to discover more years later are the baddies. JMHO.

Source with timestamps:

2:01:34 Stacy Eldrige former FBI digital examiner

2:04:39 Reviewed the Oct 2017 extraction,
Cecils reports and deposition

2:10:40 Downloaded Knowledge C Exhibit
TTT extraction E227

2:12:30 Cecil's report review, Feb 13 5:44 & Feb 14 4:33AM E QQQ? AT&T historical log

2:17:20 What did AT&T log tell us about the connection

2:21:03 No evidence of when calls were missed, voice mails, pings

2:25:30 Audio output Knowledge C, wired headphone being inserted 5:45-10:32pm

2:29:30 Any alternate explanation to human hands? No.

There was no image taken by the phone showing a hand plugging and unplugging the non-existent at the scene headphones. There were none found and put into evidence.

Knowledge C logs what the phone is doing. When an iPhone gets wet, the headphone jack's sensor has been known to turn the indicator on, thinking that the headphone jack is now in use. It's very simply a google search away, just like ISP officer testified to on the stand.

Libby's phone, by the data testified to, did not move after 2:32pm.

What's more logical, a non-moving phone being accessed under a victim's body to plug in headphones (for what possible reason, idk?), while searchers and LE are everywhere. Then someone unplugs the headphones hours later and steals them, while searches and LE are everywhere? Or, the phone's sensor got wet and malfunctioned?

Knowledge C database stores processes activity on an Apple device which gets that info sometimes from jack sensors, If that sensor malfunctions , KC logs it in error.

AJMO with info gleaned by googling the wet iPhone headphone's jack issue and Knowledge C database logs information.

 

[sunshineray]

Well they’ve tailored their testimony and changed it from prior testimony - this smells like a win-at-any-cost mentality. Either the state’s case is strong enough without having witnesses change their testimony, or it is not. In this case it seems like the states case was not strong enough without massaging witness testimony. JMO

IF any of this were true, which I don't believe is the case, RA's attorneys seem very incompetent at highlighting these egregious accusations. Or did they just get out lawyered? They ran out of steam because those witnesses testified to what they remembered seeing, they had no hidden agenda to lie. The State is not the boogeyman. RA was arrested, charged and is now on trial for murdering Abby and Libby. He's admitted his guilt, witnesses have testified, evidence was admitted. We'll see if the jury gets added to the list of agenda seekers when they deliver a verdict. AJMO

 

[getthefax]

I hope the jurors sift through everything with a fine tooth comb.

If the jury’s impressive and insightful questions are any indication, I feel we can be assured that they are paying attention and will be extremely thorough.

 

[katydid23]

JMT - I think it is the Knowledge C base that proves it had to be human.

No, I don't think it can. It can not differentiate between a human hand plugging in a headphone and any other way something could be in the headphone jack. KnowledgeC Database is just that---a database of the I-phones raw data.



The KnowledgeC database, or KnowledgeC.db, is an SQLite database file that stores records of activities on Apple devices. It's the database behind the coreduet daemon in iOS, which synchronizes states between Apple products. The KnowledgeC database can provide insight into a phone owner's usage, including: Application activity, When the device was locked or unlocked, When the device was plugged into a charger or PC, Login events, and Screen status.


The I-phone cannot see/feel/know that a human hand did or did not plug in headphones. It only knows what its sensors detect. Its sensors alert the notifications when they detect 'headphones' being plugged in. It sends the message for the audio output to go 'headphone mode.'

How do we KNOW that the I-phone can't tell the difference between actual headphones plugged in and water/debris in the jack? We know that because hundreds of people have complained that the I-phone has a glitch that makes it go into headphone mode EVEN IF no one plus in any headphones.

So that KnowledgeC Database is not going to be able to differentiate unless they can also see that phone was unlocked and a podcast was being streamed between 5 and 10 pm. Then I would agree that a human hand was responsible for the headphones being plugged in.

But the phone was not unlocked and nothing was being streamed or played. And we know the phone was wet and dirty.

Water and dirt it seems can put out a false reading of inputing a cable in the socket, but it doesn't explain the data in the Knowledge C base.

YES, it does explain the data. That is exactly what it explains. When the sensors in the audio jack detect 'something' in the headphone jack, a notification is sent to go into Headphone Mode, and have the sound rerouted to headphone outlet.

Sometimes, when the phone gets wet or dirty, the sensors mistakenly think there are headphones plugged in. And the Knowledge C Database would still compute that as 'headphone mode.' The Knowledge C database does not know the difference.

Someone interpreting that data can tell the difference. The raw data tells a story.If there is an alert that something is plugged into the headphone jack, the next clues would be that the phone would be unlocked, maybe charged, and a selection would be chosen to listen to. Or a call would be made. NONE OF THAT HAPPENED.

Socket only (false reading if water or dirt) from what I understand not the Analytical section or Knowledge C base.

KnowledgeCdatabase is not doing all of the analysis---it takes the digital expert to make that determination.

As to why? Nothing about that crime scene makes sense to me at all really including headphones.

JMO MOO JMT

The headphones make no sense because there weren't any, imo. The phone data shows it was never unlocked during that time. Why have headphones plugged in for 5 hours and never use the phone to make a call or listen to music?

It makes no sense. And Abby's pants were wet from the creek and the phone was probably in the pants. IMO

 

[mrjitty]

The reason we know the Headphone theory is nonsense is because unlike the jury, we can see the stage directions.

Until 5 minutes ago the D and all it's surrogates were claiming the phone was switched off before the girls were bundled into a car, and switched back on at 4.30am. (See Auger's cross of the prosecution phone expert Cecil at the 3 day hearing). This was critical to the 2nd location / Odinism theory, because it explained how the phone didn't record any steps when it was brought back cross country to the murder scene.

Fast forward to this week, and all of that is memory holed in favour of "headphone theory". And of course without irony, all the people who claimed the phone was turned on at 4.30am now claim the phone was on the whole time with headphones! Completely forgetting what they claimed all summer!

It's obvious this is another wild speculation not supported by the totality of the evidence. Probably they had to do this because they realised the jury would never believe the phone was turned off.

Sadly juries never see these inconsistent versions. But we've seen the D and surrogates switch seamlessly from one conspiracy to the other as if the D never said the first one.

It troubles me how content the D have been to mislead the public pre-trial. They always knew the phone wasn't turned off.

MOO

ETA On a call but will look out that cross shortly

 

[Tortoise]

Does this mean that when Abigail Williams was murdered, if the killer was right-handed, they stood in front of Abby facing her if the cut was made from right to left?

It's my understanding that this would be referring to Abby's right and left which, looking at her face on, would be like drawing a line from our left to right. That's how I understand most medical examiners refer to right and left in relation to the body. MOO

 

[Ivy rose]

The reason we know the Headphone theory is nonsense is because unlike the jury, we can see the stage directions.

Until 5 minutes ago the D and all it's surrogates were claiming the phone was switched off before the girls were bundled into a car, and switched back on at 4.30am. (See Auger's cross of the prosecution phone expert Cecil at the 3 day hearing). This was critical to the 2nd location / Odinism theory, because it explained how the phone didn't record any steps when it was brought back cross country to the murder scene.

Fast forward to this week, and all of that is memory holed in favour of "headphone theory". And of course without irony, all the people who claimed the phone was turned on at 4.30am now claim the phone was on the whole time with headphones! Completely forgetting what they claimed all summer!

It's obvious this is another wild speculation not supported by the totality of the evidence. Probably they had to do this because they realised the jury would never believe the phone was turned off.

Sadly juries never see these inconsistent versions. But we've seen the D and surrogates switch seamlessly from one conspiracy to the other as if the D never said the first one.

It troubles me how content the D have been to mislead the public pre-trial. They always knew the phone wasn't turned off.

MOO

ETA On a call but will look out that cross shortly

The big problem for trial is the prosecution didn’t provide an explanation outside google search results.