Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #212

[detectivewannab]

Some interesting things RA told Liggett and Mullin on October 13, 2022.

"Liggett then read Tip #74, Allen’s self-reported tip stating he was on the trail dressed in similar clothes as Bridge Guy."

Interesting. So did RA actually describe what he was wearing to Dan Dulin on February 18, 2017? We all thought he didn't because that wasn't in the tip narrative that was located in RA's PCA.

Liggett then showed Allen photos of Bridge Guy.

“Absolutely, not me, Allen said. “I’ve never met the girls. Even if it looks like me, I’ve never seen them … It’s not me. I’ve never met these girls before."

Even if it looks like me?

"If that picture was taken from one of the girls’ phones, then it is not me.” - RA

RA knew, if he was keeping up with the investigation, that LE released info that Libby took that picture on her phone at a press conference days after talking to DD.

"We have people that saw you,” Liggett said.

“There weren’t that many people who saw me unless they were coming from behind me, and I didn’t see them,” Allen responded.

I believe once BB noticed RA on platform 1, he left the bridge, and that is when he seen Abby and Libby. He knew then that the only ones ahead of him were Abby and Libby so he waited on the trail to make sure BB was gone and no one else was behind him before he made his move and started to follow them across the bridge.

On October 26, 2022 in Holeman's interview with RA.

"There is no way that round is from my gun on the bridge,” Allen told him

At this time RA had no idea where the round was actually found. This right here corroborates he is BG because BG accosted the girls' with a gun on the bridge. It also corroborates RA's confession to Dr. Wala when he told her he did something with his gun on the bridge and that is when he thought his bullet came out.

That's creepy.

 

[Mitch1]

Glad you mention it,

Mullin asked about why Allen reported being on the trail on Feb. 13, 2017.

“It was the next day or a couple of days later,” he said. “I went down because my wife said they wanted to talk to anyone who had been there.”

‘I didn’t do it’ - Carroll County Comet

This is a two-part series. Tomorrow we will post Allen’s confessions testified to by employees and former employees of the Indiana Department of Corrections. “I didn’t do it.” Richard Allen sat in an interview room at the Indiana State Police Lafayette Post across the table from Lt. Jerry...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

RA turned himself but still looking like BG isn’t gonna do the same

 

[detectivewannab]

Make you wonder how many other girls he had watched. Just like Bryon Kohberger had been looking for the perfect crime.

 

[SouthEnd]

This is incorrect according to the former FBI digital analyst. The Knowledge C database showed a physical interaction by a human hand plugging headphones into Libby’s phone between 5:45pm-10:32pm. Therefore the phone was technically moved. Also, Dr. Kohr was unfortunately unable to give a TOD (except between when they disappeared and when they were found). This doesn’t mean they were or were not alive, but that the state’s narrative does not fit the facts presented in the trial thus far. The judge also refused to allow the D to present geofence data-why? Why would geofence data from Libby and/or RA’s phone be omitted? What did it show? JMO.

Source (starts @ abt 2 hours in, specific timestamps listed in the comments)

MOO and data:
There is no database that can show if the port is touched by a human hand, a robot, a short circuit, dirt or water. An event is the sensor of the headphone port 'detecting' an interaction. That could have been any of the above.
In fact, no one tried to unlock the phone or click the display open during those hours (otherwise the defence or P experts' would have mentioned it). No other 'input' events were detected. Thus, it is far more likely it is a miss-recorded event, than a person, moving Abby's dead body twice, once to place headphones in, without touching the fingerprint unlock, and the second to remove the headphones, again, without activating the screen or touching the fingerprint sensor.

All MOO.

 

[FromGermany1]

How brazen RA was acting, shows his attempt to SA the girls, when he got spooked by the white van.
In February, a warm day, but still Winter, he chased two girls down a hill in the direction of a creek. What did he think, what he could have done to them without being seen possibly by the next person crossing the MHB or someone, who was already hanging out under the bridge or someone driving up the private street? MOO

 

[shonyakay]

If the perpetrator made sure to unalive those girls and leave behind no tracks - it is highly unlikely that person would dob himself in straight away.

Not with a video release or voice recording, I'd think.

JMO MOO JMT

There was no video or audio released until way later.

When RA talked to Dan Dulin only a picture of a man had been released (A screenshot of BG from Libby's phone) that LE were interested in talking to. No one knew where the picture came from at that time either.

 

[Warwick7]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1854354707101143056

 

[Warwick7]

Make you wonder how many other girls he had watched. Just like Bryon Kohberger had been looking for the perfect crime.

That's the unsettling part. If I were any of those females on that bridge, I would say to my loved ones "dear god that could of been me."
:0(

 

[dkaras]

Well, huh. Color me underwhelmed by all of it!

I believe RA will be found guilty. IMO there are too many circumstantial things that the D failed to contradict. I personally believe about 90% that he's guilty. I wouldn't be a good juror, but I'd never be there because I (think I) know too many other things!

- D offered no RA alibi after he left the bridge (whichever time he left the bridge), although I understand they were trying to distance him entirely after the morning. But if he left the bridge at 1:30 or 2:15 and went bowling, or napping, or to the grocery store, we should have heard that. And what did he do that evening? We've never heard a thing about it, as far as I know. I think the jury will have a hard time with this.
- Sounds like KA never testified. And wouldn't have answered the questions I had anyway. IMO She'd have given him an evening alibi maybe?
- The sister and daughter's testimony was underwhelming (I feel bad that either of them had to be there to begin with!). The D would never have put them on the stand if those allegations were true. I am curious though if there's any merit to the "Kevin and ..." (was it Chris?) admissions. Can someone please remind me, after or during the three-day hearings, there were some closed hearings? I HAVE NO IDEA if anything like this was talked about, but I could see it being argued that any previous allegations couldn't be mentioned during trial because it could influence the jury. Those testimonies seemed very...controlled. (IMO)
- Maybe I watch too much TV!
- Literally CANNOT BELIEVE there was no digital evidence directly linking RA to the crime or to the location! This is bad on both sides, IMO. RA claimed to be on his phone checking stock, but no digital evidence to confirm. RA claimed to be on the bridge at (varying/contested) times, but no digital evidence to confirm any time at all! What happened to the geofence or CAST data (I honestly don't know which does what, sorry). The Google searches were meaningless IMO, but why didn't they say what sites were visited after the searches? I google all sorts of crazy things, sometimes I just scroll thru the results, but wouldn't someone be interested on sites I actually clicked thru to? And apparently no other online grossness found? No link to a_shots?? I am so very surprised, I felt sure there would be something here. I was wrong!!
- I find it suspicious that his 2017 phone wasn't found, amongst all the numerous devices found. I would have liked more info on the other devices re: when they were in use.
- Libby's phone IMO it is common sense to most people that use cell phones that they misbehave at times. No way did a headphone jack get plugged in and removed. Geez. And even if it did, what is the experts opinion as to what went on during those hours the headphone jack was plugged in? The phone itself didn't move.
- Also CANNOT BELIEVE no trophies, no blood evidence in car was found. I was wrong! Again!
- I'm confused about some wanting to completely discredit Dr. Wala's testimony for following true crime...umm...aren't we all here? I'm a professional person with a career, and there are lawyers, counselors, many other professionals on this site and others. Following true crime or even a specific crime doesn't make us suddenly want to compromise our ethics and responsibilities. Any one of us could suddenly be thrust into a crime situation as a witness or as a professional. If we felt we would compromise the case, wouldn't we say so and remove ourselves? And if we felt it wouldn't, then we would proceed? And we would tell whoever needs to be told and let them decide? We're not children, and neither is she. I don't believe she "fed" RA any details. All JMO
- I fully believe that BG is the killer. The video/stills of BG don't rule RA out. And no witness saw any other person that we know of or saw two men that looked alike/dressed similarly. Or even saw two men that I know of! Is BG = RA...? I'm about 90%
- I'm sorry but I don't think RA was mistreated in custody (although if we were allowed to see the videos I could change my mind). Maybe he shouldn't have been in prison while awaiting trial, I agree. But if he'd have committed suicide or been killed or badly hurt while in county jail, we'd all be yammering on about that mistreatment. He was suicidal, and apparently didn't follow orders at times, and at other times psychotic. He was probably held in the best place they could (as opposed to a mental hospital?? I guess I don't know if one was available). And I don't think he went through potentially thousands of documents and info in the matter of a few days in order to make his confessions, one of which contained a very important detail IMO, when his own attorneys couldn't get through this discovery in a matter of many months. I don't think his psychosis made him confess. The van information is compelling, IMO.
- I do wish the ME was more certain in his assessment that a box cutter "could have" made the wounds, and went about releasing the info in the right way. Dangit.
- I wish they would have found the box cutter.

These days I think we all want to see DNA and a video or two of someone committing a crime. But I remember that Scott Peterson was convicted on circumstantial evidence, no direct evidence, no DNA, no evidence at all that his wife was murdered in their home. But I believe that he did it too. And Barry Morphew definitely did, IMO, LOL. (not sure if this last paragraph here is appropriate...)

Kind of a rant and brain-dumping! Thanks to everyone for your knowledge of this case!! I am OVERwhelmed by the intelligence and attentiveness of this forum.

EBM: Whoooweee! I didn't think the post would be so long! I had a lot built up lol

 

[somequestions]

The smoking gun was Libby's video of BG.

In my opinion, that was not the smoking gun, but I thought like you that it was going to be. At the beginning of the case I thought it was going to be the smoking gun because I thought with audio and video and it being a small town, the case would be solved very quickly as LE would get a tip based on the video from Liberty German's phone.

But we do not even know if Richard Allen knew about the video still picture by the time he called the tip line to ask to speak with an investigator. If he did know about the video still picture from Liberty German's phone and still decided it would be best to call the tip line, it is one of the most baffling aspects of this case.

I think if Richard Allen gets convicted it will be because of the testimony from the man driving the van and how that matches up to the timeline of one of his confessions. In that way Liberty German's phone video did help as it helped to establish a timeline.

I thought it was going to be someone like a truck driver passing through. I thought because of the sticks left on the bodies and the discussion about a Norse religion from the Vikings and it made me think of Minnesota. I thought Richard Allen might be innocent too.

 

[katydid23]

This is incorrect according to the former FBI digital analyst. The Knowledge C database showed a physical interaction by a human hand plugging headphones into Libby’s phone between 5:45pm-10:32pm. Therefore the phone was technically moved. Also, Dr. Kohr was unfortunately unable to give a TOD (except between when they disappeared and when they were found). This doesn’t mean they were or were not alive, but that the state’s narrative does not fit the facts presented in the trial thus far. The judge also refused to allow the D to present geofence data-why? Why would geofence data from Libby and/or RA’s phone be omitted? What did it show? JMO.

Source (starts @ abt 2 hours in, specific timestamps listed in the comments)

There is no proof that a 'human hand' plugged in any headphones.

Get Your iPhone out of Headphone Mode

Is your iPhone stuck in headphone mode even though nothing's plugged into the headphone jack? Solve the mystery with these troubleshooting tips.

www.lifewire.com

How to Fix an iPhone Stuck in Headphone Mode​

1. Plug and unplug headphones. The first thing you should try if your iPhone thinks headphones are plugged in is simple: plug in, then unplug, a pair of headphones.

Clean the headphone jack.

The iPhone thinks headphones are plugged in when it detects there's something in the headphone jack. It's possible something else in the jack could send a false signal.

If lint or other gunk has built up in the headphone jack and is tricking the iPhone into thinking something else is there:

[As seen above, ^^^this is a common problem with I-phones]



The extraction downloads raw data from the phone. That data makes certain assumptions----like if something is in that audio output space then it triggers a notification of headphones being used. That raw data does not know if a human hand plugged in headphones or if a field mouse stuffed a twig into the hole. Or if condensation/dirt dripped inside?

There is no proof that a human hand plugged anything into that phone. And there are a few things which prove it didn't happen. The phone didn't move after the murders, which happened right there. The phone was never unlocked. Someone tried to unlock the phone around 2:17 pm ,IIRC, but were unsuccessful. No one ever unlocked it again. If someone was trying to plug in headphones for some reason they'd need to unlock the phone to use it.

The girls TOD was estimated at 40 hours before they were discovered. That doesn't leave time for them to be messing with the phone from 5 to 10 pm. And the searchers were all over that area during that time---no one could have walked the girls back and killed them there---nor would they.

We had a few people here who have experienced their cell phones giving notifications of their headphones being in, when they were not. So it is possible for that notification to be a glitch.

 

[shonyakay]

RA turned himself but still looking like BG isn’t gonna do the same

He said because his wife said to.
Also he knew people had seen him there.
Another thing, perps often love to insert themselves in investigations.

 

[otto]

@MaxLewisTV
-It showed Allen getting a medical check up at the prison while strapped to a chair

-He appeared catatonic and had a blank stare on his face
-Very similar to the photo below that his attorney's released of him
-During redirect, Martin said the video was not how he remembered Allen that day and he can't explain why
-He said it doesn't make him think he was wrong

View attachment 543500

This apparently "catatonic", chained man is the man who very likely planned and then murdered two girls on a warm afternoon in February because he couldn't leave witnesses to his planned and failed sexual assault. He thought that he would never get caught, even posing for photos in front of wanted sketches. Seven years later, a volunteer filing girl discovered the mis-filed document for Richard Allen who lives on White-something road. No longer cleared.

Richard Allen intentionally lost weight when first incarcerated. He would skip 3 meals, and there was no record on file of missed meals. After skipping a 4th meal, it was recorded, so he missed 3 meals often without triggering an alert that he may be trying to lose weight (or not eating properly). That sounds calculated.

Given the level of psychological manipulation and abuse RA exerted on prison staff, his wife and his mother, after receiving legal-discovery; after realizing that he got caught ... complaining that he's chained up for murder? Acting out because he wants better conditions?

Richard Allen acted so pathetic in 2023 that other prisoners taunted him. It looks like RA will do anything to be labeled "psychotic", rather than a pedophile murderer, because his wife and mother will probably forgive him if murdering two teenage girls after visiting his mother was a psychotic moment.

 

[katydid23]

I must have missed that expert testimony while I was busy following the news today. If you can, please share the missing links. TIA

The iPhone thinks headphones are plugged in when it detects there's something in the headphone jack. It's possible something else in the jack could send a false signal.

Get Your iPhone out of Headphone Mode

Is your iPhone stuck in headphone mode even though nothing's plugged into the headphone jack? Solve the mystery with these troubleshooting tips.

www.lifewire.com

 

[al66pine]

Boxcutters. Serrated Blades?

Have you ever seen a serrated box cutter?

Yes. [ETA. Have seen online vids of home improvement projects, DIY's, etc.]
An Amazon search* returned, in the first 20 results, 7 or 8 serrated blades for box cutters. Suggested to me that altho I don't ever recall seeing any ("in person," so to speak), that they are not terribly uncommon.

Other members who have seen or used boxcutters w serrated blades.
Bbgiraffe
loveplace
detectivewannab
Others posting on Oct 30 in thread #207
_______________________________
* FWIW
At Amazon.com, searched "box cutter with with serrated blade" showed products, either w box cutter or as a separate pack of refill blades. Sorry I can't get photos to attach.
Ex.: "Serrated Blades for Utility Knife – Ten Pack Heavy Duty SK5 Saw Razors for Box Cutter Replacement in Convenient Storage Box – Serrated Edge Razors 10 Pack, Standard Size - Fits Most Cutters &..."
"Rapid Edge 1-Pack Double-Length Utility Knife Blades, Serrated Edge Utility Blade,

 

[zh0r4]

There is no proof that a 'human hand' plugged in any headphones.

Get Your iPhone out of Headphone Mode

Is your iPhone stuck in headphone mode even though nothing's plugged into the headphone jack? Solve the mystery with these troubleshooting tips.

www.lifewire.com

How to Fix an iPhone Stuck in Headphone Mode​

1. Plug and unplug headphones. The first thing you should try if your iPhone thinks headphones are plugged in is simple: plug in, then unplug, a pair of headphones.

Clean the headphone jack.

The iPhone thinks headphones are plugged in when it detects there's something in the headphone jack. It's possible something else in the jack could send a false signal.

If lint or other gunk has built up in the headphone jack and is tricking the iPhone into thinking something else is there:

[As seen above, ^^^this is a common problem with I-phones]



The extraction downloads raw data from the phone. That data makes certain assumptions----like if something is in that audio output space then it triggers a notification of headphones being used. That raw data does not know if a human hand plugged in headphones or if a field mouse stuffed a twig into the hole. Or if condensation/dirt dripped inside?

There is no proof that a human hand plugged anything into that phone. And there are a few things which prove it didn't happen. The phone didn't move after the murders, which happened right there. The phone was never unlocked. Someone tried to unlock the phone around 2:17 pm ,IIRC, but were unsuccessful. No one ever unlocked it again. If someone was trying to plug in headphones for some reason they'd need to unlock the phone to use it.

The girls TOD was estimated at 40 hours before they were discovered. That doesn't leave time for them to be messing with the phone from 5 to 10 pm. And the searchers were all over that area during that time---no one could have walked the girls back and killed them there---nor would they.

We had a few people here who have experienced their cell phones giving notifications of their headphones being in, when they were not. So it is possible for that notification to be a glitch.

This is not the same thing. This is an article for laypeople who are troubleshooting.

She was analyzing data from the Knowledge C database. This is what was testified in court-a person had to physically plug in headphones between 545pm-1032pm. I provided sources and timestamps. I take former and current FBI seriously, they have some of the best digital forensics in the country. Conflating 2 different issues is spreading misinformation and confusing people. For justice we need truth. JMO

Edit to add the time.

 

[katydid23]

I think the point Tristan is trying to make, is that even without an expert’s examination of the phone as to water, mud or blood causing the connection issue, you seem insistent that that is the reason for it. IMO

Yes, I am insistent because it is common sense.

First of all, google " i-phone stuck in headphone mode." It is a very common glitch in iPhones that the 'headphone mode' is accidentally turned on.

How to Fix iPhone Stuck in Headphone Mode​

You know no headphones are attached; why doesn't your iPhone?


Clean the headphone jack. The iPhone thinks headphones are plugged in when it detects there's something in the headphone jack. It's possible something else in the jack could send a false signal.

If lint or other gunk has built up in the headphone jack and is tricking the iPhone into thinking something else is there:

Check for water damage. If cleaning the headphone jack didn't help, you could have a different hardware problem. It's possible the phone has been damaged by water or other moisture getting inside.

Get Your iPhone out of Headphone Mode

Is your iPhone stuck in headphone mode even though nothing's plugged into the headphone jack? Solve the mystery with these troubleshooting tips.

www.lifewire.com

OKAY, so we can see it is a common problem that can very easily explain why the headphone jack can send a false signal.

SO IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE FOR THE D EXPERT TO CLAIM 'IT HAS TO BE' HUMAN HANDS PLUGGING IN HEADPHONES---Especially when that makes no sense given the other solid circumstances. IMO

 

[FromGermany1]

Do we have an idea now, why the inmate Brian P., who in 2017 drew a good pic of BG (walking the bridge) inserted some flames, coming out of the train tracks around him? Or did that just show artistic freedom?

 

[katydid23]

This is not the same thing. This is an article for laypeople who are troubleshooting.

She was analyzing data from the Knowledge C database. This is what was testified in court-a person had to physically plug in headphones. I provided sources and timestamps. I take former and current FBI seriously, they have some of the best digital forensics in the country. Conflating 2 different issues is spreading misinformation and confusing people. For justice we need truth. JMO

It iS the same thing. The database she was looking at is just raw data from the phone---and it showed that the Audio Output Settings showed that the headphones were connected to the headphone jack around 5pm and disconnected around 10 pm.

That is simply a setting that kicks in and makes a notification.

The iPhone thinks headphones are plugged in when it detects there's something in the headphone jack. It's possible something else in the jack could send a false signal.



That is all it was. ... that is exactly what the extractions are. Just a huge grid of all of the commands/notifications/settings/changes/messages logged within the memory of the phone.

All Eldridge did was see that the headphone notification lit up and then hours later it clicked off.

There is no reason to believe that human hands were involved in any way. The phone was never unlocked, It never moved. We have reason to believe it was wet and dirty.

The prosecution would say the phone glitched and went into headphone mode. That would fit their other evidence---the bodies were found right where they were killed. The phone was found underneath one of the bodies.

If there are two ways that the headphone mode could kick in---
---one way is a glitch from water or dirt.
OR
---the other way is one of the girls or one of the perps plugged in headphones

Which of the 2 above options sounds more likely?

we know the phone was damp and dirty.

but the girls died long before 5 pm and if a perp plugged in headphones why would they leave the phone for LE to find?

 

[somequestions]

I believe 2" might have been the length as opposed to the depth.

"Forensic Pathologist Dr. Roland Kohr, who performed the autopsies, testified:

• The autopsy revealed Abby had a five to six-centimeter-long wound (approximately 2 inches long) on the left side of her neck, however, Dr. Kohr said it was not a deep cut, “only an inch deep” in the doctor’s words."

IN v. Richard Allen: Delphi Murders Trial

Richard Allen was sentenced to 130 years in prison for killing Abigail Williams and Liberty German just outside Delphi, Indiana.

www.courttv.com

Abby had one cut to the left side of her neck. Dr. Kohr said it was a partial cut through the left jugular vein. Dr. Kohr said the transverse (horizontal) cut was about 2.75 inches long and was gaping open about 2 inches. There were no signs of blunt force trauma. He said because of some abbrasions on the right side of the wound and a clean edge on the left side, he would estimate the cut was made from right to left. He estimated it was about an inch deep.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/he-was-covered-in-mud-and-blood-bridge-guy-witness-testimonies-continue/

Does this mean that when Abigail Williams was murdered, if the killer was right-handed, they stood in front of Abby facing her if the cut was made from right to left?