Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #205

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Richard Allen has been arrested and charged with the murders of Abby and Libby

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

PICTURES OF ABBY AND LIBBY
Link to post with all threads 1 - 98 (Courtesy of margarita25)
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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video
Hidden True Crime
Lawyer Lee
Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tricia]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

Click here for The Rules

 

[Niner]

Saturday, October 26th:
*Trial continues (Day 8) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Held without bond.
Amended charges (1/18/24/granted 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial [8/1/24]. Carroll County
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. One alternate was dismissed for a family emergency. 3 Alternates left (no count). Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-6 (10/18-10/24/24) reference post #889 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-203.726949/page-45
10/24/24 Docket update: Judge Gull reportedly granted former Carroll County Prosecutor Rob Ives’ Motion to Quash Subpoena. According to Ives, Allen had subpoenaed him w/ Ives contending any testimony is protected by work product and he is not a fact witness. The Indiana Supreme Court has stated that a prosecutor may not be called as a defense witness unless the testimony sought is required by a compelling and legitimate need. Matheney v. State, 583 NE2d 1202, 1206 (Ind. 1992). Where evidence can be obtained from other sources and absent extraordinary circumstances, an attorney who participates in a case should not be called. See link at: _Motion to Quash Subpoena.pdf
10/25/24 Friday, Trial Day 7: State witnesses: Melissa Oberg. [Worked for the Indiana State Police as a forensic firearm examiner & resigned in 2013. Works for a clinical asset health management company now. She tells the jury she is an operations data analyst for that company. Did analysis on the cartridge on 2/17/17. She saw three possible ejector marks & three possible extractor marks on the cartridge & showed the jury a powerpoint presentation that came to the conclusion that the gun collected from Allen’s home in 2022 had indeed cycled the cartridge that was found near the bodies of Libby & Abby.
For more info see post #4 (Day 7 blog) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...hi-murders-richard-allen-arrested-204.727056/
Only 15 of the 16 jurors came back into the courtroom after the lunch break. One juror was dismissed. That leaves 12 jurors & three alternate jurors. Dismissed juror has a family emergency.
Trial continues on Saturday, 10/26/24 @ 9am.

 

[Vaderman]

Now that we're nearing the two-year mark since he was arrested, I wonder, beyond sexual motivation, what brought Richard Allen to this moment. I keep flipping back and forth that this was planned vs this was a chance encounter.

 

[MassGuy]

Surely one would be enough, but 60?!?

That really doesn't seem right as it's too excessive.

JMO MOO JMT

Not if you think people aren’t listening.

 

[shonyakay]

But he got rid of his phone that he had the day of the murders

And the interesting part about that is, the clothing, the car, and the gun was unknown to LE at the beginning when he gave his first statement.

However, LE had information about his phone and that is the one item that is missing.

 

[shonyakay]

According to the timeline that's been testified to so far, we know BB's car was seen leaving the MHB area at 2:18pm. I don't think she would have seen any of the aftermath or anything SC saw.

https://www.wane.com/top-stories/delphi-native-reflects-on-abby-libbys-legacy-in-town/

According to RA's PCA BB left at 2:14 p.m. but I agree BB was long gone before the SC sighting.

 

[MassGuy]

Now that we're nearing the two-year mark since he was arrested, I wonder, beyond sexual motivation, what brought Richard Allen to this moment. I keep flipping back and forth that this was planned vs this was a chance encounter.

I’m convinced it was chance. There’s just no way he could have known they’d be there, or be able to intercept them the way he did if he had known.

He came prepared to hunt, and I think the girls were perfect targets.

What brought him there? Not that this guy is a serial killer, but for guys like that there’s generally a precipitating stressor; a major negative life event.

So a fight with a significant other, money issues, job troubles.

So he may have been worked up that day or something, which is why he chose that day to go out and look for a victim.

I would love to know what his devices have to say in general. That may indicate if he’s attracted to females of a certain (young) age or not.

It’s possible he would have left if he didn’t come across an appropriate target, or would have attacked any female he found suitable.

 

[MiniMoo]

I cannot even imagine one person being able to commit this crime on their own, let alone someone under the influence of alcohol. IMO

Especially as some have had to crawl across it due to how dangerous it looked and all that.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[shonyakay]

As far as I know, that was an allegation made by Baldwin, not an admission by SC.

Baldwin pointed out that Carbaugh had initially told police the man she saw wore a tan coat, but she later changed her mind after she saw the now-infamous video of the "Bridge Guy," who was seen wearing a blue jacket. Carbaugh said she might have thought the coat was tan because he was covered in mud.

'You need to call me now': Delphi murder trial testimony reveals text from Libby's grandmother

The trial of Richard Allen for the Delphi murders resumed Wednesday with testimony from an eyewitness, a forensic pathologist and a police technician.

www.indystar.com

The clear issue with the allegation, as I pointed out upthread, is that the whole reason she says she went to police initially is because she recognized the man when police released the photos of BG. Which came from the video. Which was released weeks before she gave her initial report...

JMO

That is why LE release photos - to ask if anyone seen that person in the area of the crime.

BTW, "BG" is clearly wearing a brown hoodie under his jacket. Technically tan is a light shade of brown.

 

[shonyakay]

Glad the jury will see this interrogation tape next week. Although, it's not the full thing as parts were "mysteriously" cut out...

Threatening a suspect with the DP as well in an interrogation, um.

They will also see RA threaten Holeman.

 

[m00c0w]

Well, when they Miranda you you sign the piece of paper, so we don't just have to take anyone's word for it.

MOO

This entire thing was litigated to death pre-trial when the defense tried to get the interview suppressed because the video didn't contain the Miranda warning.

 

[sunshineray]

She's at the trial.

She's talking about what she heard today from her meticulous note taking.

From Holeman's testimony? Who's testimony said RA wasn't read his MR before questioning?

 

[MiniMoo]

I can't stand that we are getting the information about the trial from people who profit off of clicks. The more dramatic the post, the more attention it gets. We should be getting factual reporting, not dramatics and personal opinion. My opinion, only.

I don't mind getting perspectives from attorneys that are actually there every day and attending the trial plus they are Defense attorneys.

There is one on the news that has worked on both sides (P and D) throughout her career so I like listening to her as well.

It isn't like we can see it live or anything.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[ClearAhead]

She's at the trial.

She's talking about what she heard today from her meticulous note taking.

That’s odd. TMS claimed Holeman was asked the question and he explained Miranda wasn’t required, RA agreed to speak with him and was free to leave any time had he wanted to. After the interview LE decided to arrest him. Given some of RA’s responses, the reason may’ve been for his own well-being.

ETA RA and his wife were at the police station because they came to pick up their car.

 

[sunshineray]

I can't find it now but somewhere earlier here someone posted a motion I think from the defense to try and get the 2nd interview/interrogation out and it says that there is no recording of the Miranda rights and the defense didn't receive the Miranda form that im presuming RA would sign after being Mirandized? I just saw it when I was trying to catch up on break so I might be wrong.

Ohhh ok, not from testimony. Thank you, just from another defense filing, which I have no confidence in at all, that it's the truth. MO

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Surely one would be enough, but 60?!?

That really doesn't seem right as it's too excessive.

JMO MOO JMT

Agreed- it’s an absurdly high number- moo

 

[scapa]

I can't stand that we are getting the information about the trial from people who profit off of clicks. The more dramatic the post, the more attention it gets. We should be getting factual reporting, not dramatics and personal opinion. My opinion, only.

Agree.

There's something (for me) consistently off-putting about the territoriality, drama and often lack even of a pretence of serious or non-biased analysis -- and the inevitable pauses to thank Listener X or Viewer Q for slipping a few quid into the pot, broken up by the just as inevitable breaks for the Hosting Entity to wibble on about how Prepared Meal Service Y has transformed their busy lives by making it so easy and delicious -- and economical! -- to whip up a 6 minute supper that kids and even that notoriously picky partner just... love!!!

Before returning to piously remind us that, really, this is a horrific case about the cruel kidnapping and brutal murder of two extraordinary friends -- and can we please make sure to smash that subscribe button, OMG thx!

I don't do 'tubers and don't love many podcasts. But the better ones tend to be backwards-focused, examining carefully and sensitively some complex set of events. They do research. They take time.

I don't think present-tense serious crime and for-profit casting/ tubing really work for me. The balance is too fine, and too few 'casters manage it. Often feels like we're revolving backwards to the days of the Hearst yellow press and early UK/ Elsewhere tabloids, which never truly went away but have now found new media to work with.

But info has to come from somewhere, especially in a case this infamous. So...

/endrant

Get some rest, all. Hopefully more testimony brings more and better answers.

 

[oviedo]

That alcoholic thing is interesting. I’ve always believed the killer was under the influence because of how insanely risky it was. I could just imagine BG strolling along with a flask.

And I don’t buy that reasoning. You may be devastated by all of that, but your freedom takes precedence. I believe that is a guilty conscience.

Then the confessions followed.

This is what I thought 5 years ago. Wrong about history of petty crimes and drug abuse, but I did think he had to have been under the influence.


Post in thread 'IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #91'
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #91

Wow @MassGuy thats creepy and foreshadowing - I’ve always thought alcohol was involved
JMO