Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #205

[photographer4]

If a hypothetical witness came forward in 2017 and said they saw a man that fit BG's description between 1:30-2:00 on the trails, and later (around 2022) said that they were mistaken and they actually saw the man that fit BG's description sometime around noon to 1:00, would that witness be credible?

Did they report him before or after Le put out the photo and video of Bg? Before or after the discussed what they saw with their friends and family??

 

[Tricia]

Be sure to vote in our Websleuths Poll.
We'll start a new poll before court on Monday.
The results so far are;
Guilty and acted alone 70.6%
Guilty but had help 1.2%
Not guilty 12.9%
I don't know 15.3%
CLICK HERE TO VOTE IN OUR POLL
Thanks!
Tricia

 

[Vern]

Did they report him before or after Le put out the photo and video of Bg? Before or after the discussed what they saw with their friends and family??

No doubt they reported him after LE put out the Information Alert Flyer seeking Information on the Pictured Bridge Guy.

IMO precisely because until that time, they had NO CLUE that was the individual being sought. Simple actually.

And, I don't know what the issue is ... happens all over the world. "Seeking information on below individual" / "Have you seen this guy?"

 

[Warwick7]

I’m convinced it was chance. There’s just no way he could have known they’d be there, or be able to intercept them the way he did if he had known.

He came prepared to hunt, and I think the girls were perfect targets.

What brought him there? Not that this guy is a serial killer, but for guys like that there’s generally a precipitating stressor; a major negative life event.

So a fight with a significant other, money issues, job troubles.

So he may have been worked up that day or something, which is why he chose that day to go out and look for a victim.

I would love to know what his devices have to say in general. That may indicate if he’s attracted to females of a certain (young) age or not.

It’s possible he would have left if he didn’t come across an appropriate target, or would have attacked any female he found suitable.

He was looking for prey.
I watched Grey Hughes and his video with the dots and the little cars....it put everything into perspective for me.

The fact that RA was at landing #1 and "watching fish" gave him a perfect alibi to scope prey.

It makes sense----the victims walk past him headed to the big bridge and he turns around heads the way he came... and then dipped into the woods.

Seriously all he needed, as Hughes points out, was for these two girls to start to cross the train trussle. He then follows them and has them trapped.

As I watched Hughes and his dots I got sicker and sicker.....

 

[Arkay]

BBM

If they were too scared to come forward within a reasonable amount of time, does that make them untrustworthy and/or their story bunk?

The defense would also have access to any reports of people that reported other vehicles there as part of discovery. They have the entire case file. We've heard nothing about reports of other vehicles and/or witnesses corroborating RA's "revised" timeline.

JMO

Just my opinion—-there are likely untold numbers of witnesses in the world who’ve perhaps spotted a suspect or possibly stumbled upon an actual crime in progress, but who choose to keep their mouths shut rather than get involved.

Maybe they’re afraid of getting hurt. Maybe they’re afraid of retaliation. Maybe they know that if they reveal what they saw then they’ll have to sit through police interviews and testify in court. Maybe they just want privacy and are afraid of their identity being revealed.

I don’t know. But I can feel for SC wanting out and then, upon believing that she was being given a sign, choose to do the right thing in the end.

To me this does not make her testimony non-credible at all.

And to repeat endlessly, eyewitnesses who have no reason at the time to scrutinize every detail of a person’s appearance will notoriously not recall every detail accurately.

I’ve done this experiment for 25 years in my classroom, and the eyewitness details the students provide always vacillate wildly.

JMO and experience.

 

[ClearAhead]

Did they report him before or after Le put out the photo and video of Bg? Before or after the discussed what they saw with their friends and family??

I think someone else here made this point already but maybe you missed it. The purpose of LE releasing photographs to the public is “Have you seen this person”. Surely where you live they do the same thing when seeking suspects? It’s how it’s supposed to work when people come forward “yes I saw that person place/date/time etc”. Are they not allowed for some reason to talk it over with friends or family?

No reason a commonplace process should be considered nefarious.

 

[photographer4]

Be sure to vote in our Websleuths Poll.
We'll start a new poll before court on Monday.
The results so far are;
Guilty and acted alone 70.6%
Guilty but had help 1.2%
Not guilty 12.9%
I don't know 15.3%
CLICK HERE TO VOTE IN OUR POLL
Thanks!
Tricia

What will WS be using the results for if anything? @Tricia

 

[photographer4]

I think someone else here made this point already but maybe you missed it. The purpose of LE releasing photographs to the public is “Have you seen this person”. Surely where you live they do the same thing when seeking suspects? It’s how it’s supposed to work when people come forward “yes I saw that person place/date/time etc”. Are they not allowed for some reason to talk it over with friends or family?

No reason a commonplace process should be considered nefarious.

No I didn’t miss that. I understand their reasoning in releasing those when they did. I just think it may have been a bit premature as those appear to have possibly impacted witnesses statements and or recollections. We can agree to disgaree here. Moooo

 

[sunshineray]

Miranda is required at any point that somebody may say something that may incriminate them.

It should be used as often as possible rather than not.

Do you believe a suspect who is being told multiple times they killed two children, that they're going to seek the DP, that they have vision with a positive ID of them at the crime scene really thinks they're just "free to leave".

This Lt was an absolute debacle for the State today and rightly so.

To your edit: Andrea explained exactly why you don't go and pick up property the police have taken, you give permission for someone else to go and pick it up.

The result in this case was that train wreck of an interrogation.

Sounds more like a train wreck of incriminating and disturbing statements. RA doesn't seem like a stupid man in the interview by saying those things, he seems like a man wracked by the guilt he's been carrying for almost 6 years. He was finally found out. Being told you can leave at anytime in a situation like that is a gift. RA chose not to leave. I wonder why? JMO

 

[rez125]

Sounds more like a train wreck of incriminating and disturbing statements. RA doesn't seem like a stupid man in the interview by saying those things, he seems like a man wracked by the guilt he's been carrying for almost 6 years. He was finally found out. Being told you can leave at anytime in a situation like that is a gift. RA chose not to leave. I wonder why?

If you listen to AB break it down she offers the reasons why.

 

[m00c0w]

Did they report him before or after Le put out the photo and video of Bg? Before or after the discussed what they saw with their friends and family??

Reported after the photo was put out, but before the video. Reported after they discussed what they saw. Realized the original time they reported seeing BG was incorrect in 2022, after RA became a suspect.

(This is all hypothetical, no facts here)

 

[sunshineray]

A good juror question was asked. Can you get to where the girls were found any other way other than across the bridge?

Yes, from the back.

The back of what?

 

[sunshineray]

Reasonable is a subjective term. And I do think if they came forward now, I’d question their credibility too. I still have zero faith in what SC testified to and still consider it bunk. Moo.

What reason would she have to lie? She explained her reasons and her anxiety's origin. Not everyone reacts to a very stressful situation like we'd hope. She bucked up and did the right thing and came forward, even though it scared her to do so. Calling what she said bunk is very harsh considering all that, MO. I think the things we do and get thorough even though it scares us, even sometimes embarrasses us, are good things. This woman was just minding her own business driving down the street. She saw what she saw. Later that night it terrified her and that wound up incapacitating her will to tell it for awhile. I don't judge that now, she came forward, she testified, she told her truth. AJMO

 

[rez125]

The back of what?

I'm not aware if Holeman elaborated. He answered this question.

The point, one would deduce, is that the offender didn't necessarily cross the bridge to find the girls.

 

[sunshineray]

No I didn’t miss that. I understand their reasoning in releasing those when they did. I just think it may have been a bit premature as those appear to have possibly impacted witnesses statements and or recollections. We can agree to disgaree here. Moooo

How could it be considered premature? They were looking for a suspect, even though, IIRC, they said at first they were looking for a witness's help. Two girls were murdered. Some people came forward and said, yes I saw that guy! And they gave LE the particulars. It's what's done sometimes, when there's relevant video, to catch a killer. MO

 

[sunshineray]

I'm not aware if Holeman elaborated. He answered this question.

The point, one would deduce, is that the offender didn't necessarily cross the bridge to find the girls.

Oh the the defense was fishing for other ways in and out. Yes that would fit with their tall tale...the wee hours return to the crime scene, that they'd made a clean getaway from, to bring the victims back to an active search area, to kill them there, people all around, making yet a second clean getaway. A remarkable tale. I believe none of it, MO

 

[rez125]

Oh the the defense was fishing for other ways in and out. Yes that would fit with their tall tale...the wee hours return to the crime scene, that they'd made a clean getaway from, to bring the victims back to an active search area, to kill them there, people all around, making yet a second clean getaway. A remarkable tale. I believe none of it, MO

Ok, well a juror asked the question...

 

[rez125]

I did say it was my opinion. We disagree about AB.

I thought you were asking a question, thus I responded with an alternate viewpoint.

 

[sunshineray]

Just some thoughts...

More incriminating statements made and even made after RA was told he was free to leave the interview! First at the search with his double, "It doesn't matter. It's over".

Now in the subsquent interview, “I don’t care, kill me, I want to die anyway.” and “You have all the evidence, just arrest me.”

Then he says to a trooper (not sure if this was at the search or interview?) when the trooper told RA he wasn't a bad person, “What kind of good person would kill two girls?”

I'm flabbergasted, all that before he was arrested! It boogles the mind why the man never pled guilty. Was he not listened to by his representation when they were first appointed?

I'd have to consider that may be the case here. That and what we heard from ISP Harshman at the 3 day hearings, RA's family may have played a role in a man wanting to admit his guilt then chosing not to, for fear of losing his family's love. What a travesty that would be. AJMO

I look forward to hearing what else RA has said and written expressing his wishes to plea guilty. It's going to be staggering, 61+ times! Why has his team of lawyers and it seems his family ignored his wanting to do the right thing? I don't understand it and I don't believe the jury will either. Again, AJMO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

As I've said before, I have never followed this case very closely and I have no strong opinions on RA's guilt or innocence. From what I've read about the evidence so far presented at trial, however, he looks more guilty than innocent to me.

If it was a frame job, it sure took a heckuva long time to come to fruition.

I will say that I have been on WS for a long time (FIFTEEN YEARS OMG), and I am just fascinated how we old-timers agree on one case and disagree completely on others. That's cool though.

ETA: May justice prevail for Abigail and Liberty.