Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #210

[katydid23]

I'm not sure if I follow your point. I don't see how RA can have remorse for something someone did to him.

I can see how RA didn't have any feelings for the lives of his victims when he killed them. Remorse could have come later. JMO.

I think that meant he had extreme remorse that he did something that is turning his life upside down.

He did it himself but regrets that decision, IMO.

 

[shonyakay]

Exactly.

Source: Holeman told Allen during the interview he believed Allen was a good man. He says Allen responded, "What kind of good person would kill two girls?"

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 8 | Lead investigator on interrogation; Defense says Allen was never read his rights

Richard Allen denied any involvement during police interrogation says lead investigator in trial's eighth day.

www.wrtv.com

All jmo: RA already knows it's common knowledge that no good person would do this. So RA, if we believe he is guilty (I do) therefore knows he is a bad person; at the very least, he knows others view him as a bad person. But he conforms in large part to the society that knows he is a bad person. Now that the society has ripped off his mask (provided he is indeed guilty) and is preparing to treat him accordingly, he is conforming once again. Why? He's cornered. And were he not cornered, MOO, he'd be just as dangerous as he ever was, but in his cell, there's nobody he can torture but himself.

And it looks like he's been doing a good job. Unfortunately, all his self-destruction does nothing to bring back the two little girls he murdered, two young girls out for a walk. There's arguably even a lack of empathy in his attempts at "apology." He didn't damage someone's fender. If guilty, he has murdered two children and literally ruined countless lives. If he genuinely wanted to "apologize," there'd be no trial going on right now. If he is guilty (jmo, I'm now convinced he is), "reprehensible" is a nice word for what RA is at this point.

Very good post.

RA values his reputation according to what he told Holeman in October 2022. I doubt he would admit to being guilty to the general public or his fans.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I think that meant he had extreme remorse that he did something that is turning his life upside down.

He did it himself but regrets that decision, IMO.

I see. Regret is not the same as remorse. That's where I was not understanding the OP's post.

 

[MiniMoo]

I might be able to entertain that idea if it wasn't for RA saying he was at the crime scene, wearing clothes similar to BG and a .40 caliber round was found there and he owned a .40 caliber handgun.

Not a .22 or a .380, or a 9mm, or a .45, or a 10mm. JMO.

He didn't say he was at the crime scene.

All he did was let them know he was there that day.

14,000 tips and the only caller that said Richard Allen was at the trail that day was Richard Allen himself.

Mere presence doesnt mean guilty.

JMO MOO JMT

 

[shonyakay]

I think that meant he had extreme remorse that he did something that is turning his life upside down.

He did it himself but regrets that decision, IMO.

I have a hard time with the word remorse and RA in the same sentence.

RA claimed he has always been selfish. He claimed he walked the girls' across the creek to cut their throats and left to live his life. He claimed he took their lives to conserve his.
Currently he is putting everyone through a trial imo to avoid facing the consequences (for the rest of his life) for the heinous actions he committed.

 

[iamshadow21]

He didn't say he was at the crime scene.

All he did was let them know he was there that day.

14,000 tips and the only caller that said Richard Allen was at the trail that day was Richard Allen himself.

Mere presence doesnt mean guilty.

JMO MOO JMT

No, but it's a crucial piece of evidence establishing someone as a potential perpetrator.

All those SODDIs are not on the table because they weren't just unable to place them at the scene, they were able to place them elsewhere.

No one has placed RA elsewhere. RA placed himself there. That in combination with other things - the video, the bullet, the clothing matching BG - is what has led us to where we are now.

MOO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

He didn't say he was at the crime scene.

All he did was let them know he was there that day.

14,000 tips and the only caller that said Richard Allen was at the trail that day was Richard Allen himself.

Mere presence doesnt mean guilty.

JMO MOO JMT

I agree that just being at the crime scene isn't enough evidence. The bullet evidence helps me to go to the guilty side. The confessions push me even further in that direction.

It would be different for me if he had saved the phone he had at the time of the murders like he did with multiple other devices. Or if he had an alibi. JMO.

 

[mrjitty]

I'm not sure if I follow your point. I don't see how RA can have remorse for something someone did to him.

I can see how RA didn't have any feelings for the lives of his victims when he killed them. Remorse could have come later. JMO.

He has sorrow for his new circumstances and life he lost

Super common among these guys IMO

 

[shonyakay]

He didn't say he was at the crime scene.

All he did was let them know he was there that day.

14,000 tips and the only caller that said Richard Allen was at the trail that day was Richard Allen himself.

Mere presence doesnt mean guilty.

JMO MOO JMT

The people on the trails that day did not know RA personally so that is no surprise.
And RA told Holeman he talked to police because his wife had told him that police were wanting to talk to anyone who was there that day.

 

[mrjitty]

For me, there are 3 admissions currently proving RA guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.

1. The 3* (4) juveniles. This is a mutual sighting which locks him into the 1.30 pm timeline and inevitably means he must be the guy on the Bridge who saw SC (explaining why RA admitted to being on platform 1), and he also must have seen the girls. The defence needs to show it is reasonably possible he saw 3 other girls, AND at an earlier time. This is critical IMO. What do they have by way of alibi?

2. The interrupted rape. This fits so neatly with the witness, circumstantial, forensic and digital evidence it's uncanny. Defence needs to discredit the witness by introducing some doubt as to the time. The problem is the witness has no reason to misdirect on this. Any attempts to paint the witness might be the killer will backfire IMO. And the idea Wala suggested it amounts to wild speculation.

3. The boxcutter. This one was a low key bombshell and perhaps worse than point 2 above. A very bad sign that it neatly made sense to the ME as an unusual weapon consistent with the wounds.

Especially I think it indicates desperation that the D started to blame Dr Wala and the ME for points 2 and 3. These are medical professionals. i don't think the Jury will be fast to buy into them planting the idea, or somehow trying to convict RA.

MOO

 

[shonyakay]

He didn't say he was at the crime scene.

All he did was let them know he was there that day.

14,000 tips and the only caller that said Richard Allen was at the trail that day was Richard Allen himself.

Mere presence doesnt mean guilty.

JMO MOO JMT

Imo the bridge is considered a part of the crime scene because that is where Abby and Libby were kidnapped from.

 

[mrjitty]

I agree that just being at the crime scene isn't enough evidence. The bullet evidence helps me to go to the guilty side. The confessions push me even further in that direction.

It would be different for me if he had saved the phone he had at the time of the murders like he did with multiple other devices. Or if he had an alibi. JMO.

He needs a version with him off the trails by 1.30pm IMO

if he arrives at 1.30 pm he is obviously Bridge Guy

 

[shonyakay]

He needs a version with him off the trails by 1.30pm IMO

if he arrives at 1.30 pm he is obviously Bridge Guy

And there is no way RA could have made it to the bridge out onto the first platform without being seen by that group of girls' who were at the bridge taking a picture at 12 something that day.

 

[mrjitty]

And there is no way RA could have made it to the bridge out onto the first platform without being seen by that group of girls' who were at the bridge taking a picture at 12 something that day.

Sure. I mean we know there are no such girls. If there were, they would have been in the Franks along with RAs exculpatory phone data.

He saw the girls that lock him into 1.30 because he is Bridge Guy. It's the same reason why he put himself on platform 1. At trial we learned for the first time that Bridge Guy saw SC. A critical detail.

RA has been confessing the whole time.

IMO

 

[katydid23]

I have asked this before, and could not find any information to answer it until recently: in the video made on LG's phone, when the kids are heard talking, do they sound scared at all? Do they sound terrified?

According to this link, IN v. Richard Allen: Delphi Murders Trial, it doesn't sound like the kids sounded scared in the video made on LG's phone. I'll provide the quote from the link below:

• "Reporters in court heard the voice say, “There’s no path. The trail ends here, so we have to go down here?”
• Several reporters said the tone of the comment sounded like a question."

Is it possible the girls weren't scared? Is it possible they knew the person they went with that day? I've not heard or read any articles since the trial began that suggest the kids voices sounded frightened at all - has anyone?

At the end of the video Abby asks 'Is he right here? [meaning behind her]---and then says 'Don't leave me up here"
so it sounds to me like she was worried.
And then Libby mentions 'GUN' ---so at that point they were scared for sure.

It just seems odd to me that people are now trying to say that Bridge Guy, who forced these girls off the bridge at gunpoint, is really not such a bad guy after all. Like maybe the girls weren't scared of him and went along voluntarily for a lark?

 

[Niner]

Monday, November 4th:
*Trial continues (Day 15) (@ 9am ET) – IN – Abigail Joyce Williams (13) & Liberty Rose Lynn German (14) (Missing Feb. 13, 2017, found killed Feb. 14, 2017, after walking on a local hiking trail & were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the Monon High Bridge Trail, Delphi) – *Richard “Ricky/Rick” Matthew Allen (44 @ time of crime/50/now 52) arrested & booked (10/26/22) into the Carroll County Jail & charged & arraigned (10/28/22) with 2 counts of murder while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims. Plead not guilty. Initial bond @ $20M on 10/27/22. On 2/16/23 held with no bond.
Amended charges (on 1/18/24/granted on 3/18/24): 2 counts of felony murder (knowingly & intentionally), 2 counts of murder (while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping of both victims). Plead not guilty. Carroll County
*Transferred to White County jail from Carroll County for security reasons. And was transferred (11/2/22) to IN. DOC at Westville Correctional Facility at a more secure facility. Was awaiting transfer to Westville Correctional Facility but Judge Gull denied move (6/15/23). She plans to take the arguments under advisement & will make a ruling on whether or not he will be moved out of Westville at a later date. Judge Gull denied move (7/5/23). On 12/6/23 Allen was transferred from Westville to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (long term segregation). Allen was booked (5/6/24) into the Allen County Jail [for hearing on 5/7/24]. Allen back (5/7/24) to Wabash Valley Correctional Facility. Judge Gull granted transfer [8/1/24] of custody to the Carroll County Sheriff [instead of IDOC] but will be held in Cass County jail until trial is over.
Trial began with jury selection on 10/14/24 & ended 10/15/24.
Trial began on 10/18/24. Mondays thru Fridays from 9am to 6pm. Saturdays from 9am to noon. Prosecutors rested their case on 10/31/24. Defense began their case on 10/31/24.
*12 jurors (7 women & 5 men) & 4 alternates [3 women & 1 man]. One alternate was dismissed for a family emergency on 10/25/24. 3 Alternates left (3 women). Jury is sequestered.
Allen County Judge Frances C. Gull presiding. Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland & Special Prosecutor James David Luttrull, Jr.
Andrew Baldwin & Bradley Rozzi are Allen’s public appointed attorneys & added Jennifer Auger [addressing the circumstances surrounding digital forensics].
Charges, case & court info from 4/19/21 thru 10/11/24 & Jury Selection Day 1-2 (10/14-10/15/24) & thru 10/16/24 & Trial Day 1-13 (10/18-11/1/24) reference post #4 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...hi-murders-richard-allen-arrested-210.727848/
11/2/24 Saturday, Trial Day 14: Defense witness: Max Baker, IU graduate and defense intern, back to the stand [he compiled the videos of Allen while in Westville].
*The 10 videos were taken during April 2023. The jury was shown videos of Allen inside Westville Correctional Facility. Allen could NOT see the videos.
*After the jury entered, the defense recessed Max Baker & briefly paused the videos. State prosecutor Nick McLeland later said he would hold on his cross-examination of Baker until all the videos are watched.
*Defense witness: ISP Superintendent Doug Carter.
*After Carter was released, the courtroom TV was moved & positioned in front of the jury. No one in the public seating area could see the videos played. McLeland renewed his objection. Jury shown more videos.
*Defense witness: Max Baker back on stand. 5 more videos shown to jurors.
For more info see post #883 (Day 14 blog) here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...ers-richard-allen-arrested-209.727700/page-45
Trial continues on Monday, 11/4/24 @ 9am.

 

[shonyakay]

Sure. I mean we know there are no such girls. If there were, they would have been in the Franks along with RAs exculpatory phone data.

He saw the girls that lock him into 1.30 because he is Bridge Guy. It's the same reason why he put himself on platform 1. At trial we learned for the first time that Bridge Guy saw SC. A critical detail.

RA has been confessing the whole time.

IMO

I just want to clarify that I meant the group of girls' that saw "BG" on their way out of the trails, that locks that time in around 1:30 p.m., also proves that RA couldn't have left at an earlier time like he claimed.

To DD on February 18th, 2017 RA said he was at the trails from 1:30 to 3:30 p.m. according to the tip narrative.

Then to Holeman in October 2022 RA said he left the trails that day at 1, 1:30, 1:45 p.m.

It would have been impossible for those four girls' not to have seen Richard Allen (if RA is innocent and he left the trails at the earlier timeframe he told Holeman in 2022) since they walked the whole trail, took a picture at 12:43 p.m. on the bridge, walked back down the trail from where they came from, took a picture on a bench at 1:26 p.m., and then headed toward the Freedom Bridge to leave.

Edited: To convey the point of my post better.

 

[Davemac1]

He said he saw 3 girls. There were actually 4 girls.
Is that not a problem for the prosecution?

 

[CS2C]

Could someone clarify please, to the best of our knowledge, what are the step amounts shown on Libby’s phone/health app? Thank you in advance.

 

[mrjitty]

At the end of the video Abby asks 'Is he right here? [meaning behind her]---and then says 'Don't leave me up here"
so it sounds to me like she was worried.
And then Libby mentions 'GUN' ---so at that point they were scared for sure.

It just seems odd to me that people are now trying to say that Bridge Guy, who forced these girls off the bridge at gunpoint, is really not such a bad guy after all. Like maybe the girls weren't scared of him and went along voluntarily for a lark?

You know the D and surrogates are doing the Bridge Guy Innocence Project though.

Same as they opened the trial with the hair.