Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

[TL4S]

I think it's great to read in the Contempt Hearing Part 1 that Holeman refused to sign his deposition by the D because he said it contained erroneous and untrue statements.

That is one of the many reasons I don't believe anything the D puts out, especially the FM.

JMO

In all fairness, for anyone who might not read the transcripts, this is that conversation between JH and DH (A is JH, Q is DH), in entirety (sorry, lines 16 and 17 are repeated):




IMOO, this is not necessarily saying the D was lying. It was transcriber errors, which JH was able to correct. But he still didn't sign, understandably, because of some missing information, which he didn't know if was due to transcriber errors or what. He says at the end that he would have ascribed if not for the missing part. JMO. I truly hope this "missing information" part is not another reason to call the D unethical while the State likely has 70 days of "missing information."

 

[layer]

IMOO, this is not necessarily in support of the D lying. It was transcriber errors, which JH was able to correct. But he still didn't sign, understandably, because of some missing information, which he didn't know if was due to transcriber errors or what. He says at the end that he would have ascribed if not for the missing part.

It strikes me as basically an objection to cherry picking by the defense - not wanting whatever was in the first part to be public. It makes me want to read whatever is in the first part. Who am I kidding, I want to read everything. Sheesh

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Has that ever been confirmed by any statements by LE? I don't think so.

Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #172'
IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #172


Two bodies were found by volunteers on Tuesday less than a mile from where the girls were originally dropped off. The bodies were found on private property, about 50 feet from the shore of Deer Creek. Sources tell Call 6 Investigates that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found.
2 bodies found positively ID'd as missing teens

 

[TTF14]

Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #172'
IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #172


Two bodies were found by volunteers on Tuesday less than a mile from where the girls were originally dropped off. The bodies were found on private property, about 50 feet from the shore of Deer Creek. Sources tell Call 6 Investigates that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found.
2 bodies found positively ID'd as missing teens

This is about a "source" talking about footprints, not deer that I could see?

 

[layer]

This is about a "source" talking about footprints, not deer that I could see?

I don't know about deer, but I definitely want to learn more about the footprints.

 

[TL4S]

It strikes me as basically an objection to cherry picking by the defense - not wanting whatever was in the first part to be public. It makes me want to read whatever is in the first part. Who am I kidding, I want to read everything. Sheesh

Maybe the D should take NMcL's cue and tell the court to just trust them, it was nothing important...

 

[Megnut]

It strikes me as basically an objection to cherry picking by the defense - not wanting whatever was in the first part to be public. It makes me want to read whatever is in the first part. Who am I kidding, I want to read everything. Sheesh

And @layer, my friend, I too want you to read everything. So you can cliffnote me. =)

 

[Cyber sleuth]

This is about a "source" talking about footprints, not deer that I could see?

Here you go
Families of Abby and Libby take FOX59 through final hours of the Delphi teens


“He saw something. He could not figure out what it was. There were two deer standing up there. As he looked up to see what it was, that is when he saw them,” said Libby’s grandma, Becky Patty.

It was a volunteer searcher who discovered the bodies of the Delphi teens, lying in the grass between a group of trees deep in the woods.

“He called his wife who was with us and said we found them. My sister came up and she was crying and she said I’m so sorry,” said Patty.m

This isn’t confirmed by LE but is words coming from a relative of the deceased and seems pretty specific. IMO this is a truthful statement.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I don't know about deer, but I definitely want to learn more about the footprints.

Yes I doubt the deer were involved in the crime.
But they helped in the discovery of those sweet girls. So I hope they got to live long, blissful lives.
Thank goodness this community pulled together and searched thoroughly. Many victims are discovered months and years later and families go without the ability to lay their loved ones to rest as well as forensic evidence is destroyed by natural forces.

 

[TTF14]

Here you go
Families of Abby and Libby take FOX59 through final hours of the Delphi teens


“He saw something. He could not figure out what it was. There were two deer standing up there. As he looked up to see what it was, that is when he saw them,” said Libby’s grandma, Becky Patty.

It was a volunteer searcher who discovered the bodies of the Delphi teens, lying in the grass between a group of trees deep in the woods.

“He called his wife who was with us and said we found them. My sister came up and she was crying and she said I’m so sorry,” said Patty.m

This isn’t confirmed by LE but is words coming from a relative of the deceased and seems pretty specific. IMO this is a truthful statement.

Thank you, but I'm specifically looking to see if LE confirmed that anywhere. But I appreciate it

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Thank you, but I'm specifically looking to see if LE confirmed that anywhere. But I appreciate it

You are welcome.
May I ask why? This is an oddly specific request.

 

[TTF14]

You are welcome.
May I ask why? This is an oddly specific request.

Oh just because it came up in this conversation and it's one of those things I've never been able to find LE confirmation of, that's all. There are many aspects of this case like that since LE has been so tight lipped. The only things I take as facts in this case are statements that come from LE's mouth.

And even that.....not so sure after the happenings in the last 8 months!

IMO, MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Oh just because it came up in this conversation and it's one of those things I've never been able to find LE confirmation of, that's all. There are many aspects of this case like that since LE has been so tight lipped. The only things I take as facts in this case are statements that come from LE's mouth.

And even that.....not so sure after the happenings in the last 8 months!

IMO, MOO

Understood. Seeing that LE would have to have seen the deer I doubt they can confirm it. I believe it’s a well known area for deer hunting with several neighbors allowing their land to be hunted for a fee.IMO
I guess the only relevance their presence could have to the crime is if their hair or other dna was found at the crime scene.
It’s the unfortunate truth of outdoor crime scenes. They can become compromised by Mother Nature. Even in short time. Perhaps another reason for LE not to discuss.
AMO

 

[Willow Knight]

Or, who was the man in all black that some girls described? Asking for a friend.

My notes are so many that I'm now officially disorganized. Are you referring to the girls that passed BG as they were leaving? I know there were others on the bridge that day which are not regularly talked about. I don't need a link, just where this dressed in all black person was seen. KWIM?

 

[Willow Knight]

The girls croased paths with RA in the shadowy tree canopy of the trail just past the Freedom Bridge. One of them thought he was wearing black.

This is a different set of girls, not the ones that passed BG as they were leaving? Not wanting to confuse any one else, I'm the confused one.

 

[vinayd]

Maybe the D should take NMcL's cue and tell the court to just trust them, it was nothing important...

The Judge didn't allow exhibit 3 in when he couldn't find the email. That is fair.

To be even more fair, NMcL addressed the implication that he hasn't sent all discovery in a motion from 3/17 (before contempt hearing). Not being able to find email proof on the spot is not alarming.



Exhibit 2 was admitted with no objection and also referred to the thumb map drive.


When Prosecution wanted to enter Exhibit 3 it was to show that the defense received discovery and signed for it.




So he admits he probably does have it but it was not identified for use in the contempt hearing.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Just did a skim of the contempt hearings. D is alleging that not only were searchers first to come upon the CS, but they were the first to photograph it. Hence the provenance of some photos out there is open to question. Do I have that right?

Can that be right? What kind of—OK, advertisers, I won’t say it—joins a search and takes photos like that before the cops arrive?

Every whackadoodle with a cell phone today is a possibility. Remember Kobe Bryant, Joan Rivers, I could go on and on, but some people have a seriously warped sense of judgement. I guess they think it's 'cool' to have a picture of a dead body.

It disgusts me honestly.

MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

This is a different set of girls, not the ones that passed BG as they were leaving? Not wanting to confuse any one else, I'm the confused one.

Willow
I am only aware of two groups of girls that witnessed RA on the trails that day between 1:30-2:13pm.
The ones that passed RA as he headed from freedom to MHB and the ones that met him at the end of MHB and he took them to their demise.
It’s a tight timeline and he was witnessed by several people in the then not seen again until 3:57pm. One of the most important witness is the victim and the recording she made of her own abduction.
AMO

 

[Willow Knight]

Totally agreed on this, I've been looking for this forever. I saw something, somewhere, as I remember it was pretty credible, noting wife said RA kept his hair short in the national guard and got used to it being short from that experience. However, I am at the same time positive I saw a YouTuber (and a pretty credible one) noting the only record of service he found for RA was six weeks in the army. I also found early articles noting an alias for RA, and it's a very, very unusual name. That has since disappeared, so I'm still looking for anything available for both of these pieces of info.

Yes on the alias. Does this help?

"However, the Carroll County Jail record lists Mr Allen as also going by the alias of <modsnip - as there is NO VERIFICATION that this person is the same as RA please use ONLY initials>

Delphi murders: Everything we know about suspect Richard Allen as he is pictured for first time since arrest

Richard Allen is a married 50-year-old man who works in the local CVS store in the heart of Delphi – where Libby German and Abby Williams lived with their families

news.yahoo.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

In all fairness, for anyone who might not read the transcripts, this is that conversation between JH and DH (A is JH, Q is DH), in entirety (sorry, lines 16 and 17 are repeated):

View attachment 498629
View attachment 498630

IMOO, this is not necessarily saying the D was lying. It was transcriber errors, which JH was able to correct. But he still didn't sign, understandably, because of some missing information, which he didn't know if was due to transcriber errors or what. He says at the end that he would have ascribed if not for the missing part. JMO. I truly hope this "missing information" part is not another reason to call the D unethical while the State likely has 70 days of "missing information."

False information, incorrect information, missing information makes it all suspect to me when you consider the seriousness of a deposition. But as always, that is just my opinion. We all see 2 sides of the coin.

MOO