Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

[Willow Knight]

I hope to be able to be there.

That would be great! You would be a person I would totally trust to give authentic feedback.

 

[grannygates]

My own opinion was if this bullet was from this crime, my idea was the person may have completed the crime and cleaned up and then ejected the chambered round because the crime is over.

I have doubts for two reasons: the bullet flies up, you know it’s kicked out so I have doubts that a person takes the time to clean an entire crime scene (apparently clean of all fingerprints, DNA, blood, etc) and then leaves a bullet that very obviously flies out of their gun.

And 2 I don’t think that this is an isolated area that no one has ever taken a very popular gun, a very popular size round, to go shooting before. This could be an old bullet that has nothing to do with this crime.

all MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

A large amount of blood was lost by the victims at the crime scene.

FBI says their bodies ‘moved and staged’ in Delphi murders and the suspect took their clothing - WBIW

DELPHI — FBI Investigators believe the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German were “moved and staged” at the Delphi murder scene, according to court...

www.wbiw.com

 

[Salah11]

My own opinion was if this bullet was from this crime, my idea was the person may have completed the crime and cleaned up and then ejected the chambered round because the crime is over.

I have doubts for two reasons: the bullet flies up, you know it’s kicked out so I have doubts that a person takes the time to clean an entire crime scene (apparently clean of all fingerprints, DNA, blood, etc) and then leaves a bullet that very obviously flies out of their gun.

And 2 I don’t think that this is an isolated area that no one has ever taken a very popular gun, a very popular size round, to go shooting before. This could be an old bullet that has nothing to do with this crime.

all MOO

With this logic then there should have been other random bullets just laying around the area waiting to be found if it’s a popular spot to drop bullets.

But as it turns out there was only one bullet found between the bodies that happens to match the gun RA owns according to LE.

Moo

 

[StarryStarryNight]

My own opinion was if this bullet was from this crime, my idea was the person may have completed the crime and cleaned up and then ejected the chambered round because the crime is over.

I have doubts for two reasons: the bullet flies up, you know it’s kicked out so I have doubts that a person takes the time to clean an entire crime scene (apparently clean of all fingerprints, DNA, blood, etc) and then leaves a bullet that very obviously flies out of their gun.

And 2 I don’t think that this is an isolated area that no one has ever taken a very popular gun, a very popular size round, to go shooting before. This could be an old bullet that has nothing to do with this crime.

all MOO

I think it’s very possible that Richard Allen did just that.

 

[Boxer]

I'm a legal firearms owner. Licensed. Everything here is just my experience and from my firearms safety courses, the range and cleaning.

You can manually cycle a semi-automatic like the Sig Sauer P226.

The best way to picture a manual cycle is in movies when the bad guy pulls back on the top of the gun , which IMO is typically shown as a sign that the situation is escalating. He's essentially moving a round (bullet) from the magazine and into the chamber of the gun where it will be ready to fire.

The next time he pulls the trigger, the gun will fire and automatically cycle to the next bullet.

If he was to 'pull back' aka manual cycle again, any round that was in the chamber would be expelled out of the gun, unfired. IMO, there are a number of mechanical and metal parts that could cause markings during a manual extract from my observations and knowing what it looks like on the inside from cleaning it.

IMO RA forgot that he had a round already chambered a round into the gun. From personal experience, this is extremely common and the 100th reason why you should always leave your gun locked, trigger locked, unloaded before storing it etc etc.

IMO RA pulls back on the slide of the gun to chamber a round...like they do in Hollywood movies...to show them that he was serious. And when he did that the round that was already sitting in the chamber expelled out onto the ground. I doubt that he wouldn't have noticed. He probably just couldn't' find it after all was said and done.

As far as the firing of the gun once. I have no clue why they would need to. Maybe it was important to demonstrate that it was functioning? I don't know. MOO.

Again, all MOO. Everything above is my experience as an owner of this specific semi-automatic pistol. An pretty common firearm.

So agee.
MOO So many bad things happened between the bridge and the CS he just forgot, and used pulling the slide back as intimidation one more time, and a round popped out into the leaf litter, then maybe even got stepped on and became pretty impossible to find.
Also i think he fled before he wanted to. MOO he was going to light a fire but DG yelling on the trail caused him to abandon that plan.

 

[grannygates]

With this logic then there should have been other random bullets just laying around the area waiting to be found if it’s a popular spot to drop bullets.

But as it turns out there was only one bullet found between the bodies that happens to match the gun RA owns according to LE.

Moo

But do we know that? Do we know there were zero bullet casings/cartridges/any signs of shooting found in this area? If this bullet was found several inches under the ground, did they excavate all the surrounding area to search for more? I don’t know any of those answers MOO

 

[Salah11]

But do we know that? Do we know there were zero bullet casings/cartridges/any signs of shooting found in this area? If this bullet was found several inches under the ground, did they excavate all the surrounding area to search for more? I don’t know any of those answers MOO

Considering how much the defense want to twist facts I am going to go out on a limb here and say if there had been multiple bullets found between the bodies they would be shouting about it from the roof tops. We know only about one bullet that the defense are trying to get thrown out.

MOO

 

[somequestions]

Someone just brought up to me that in that 118 page document dump is mention of DNA and fiber/hair testing.

Ok, but wouldn't they test the DNA and other forensic evidence before making an arrest or was this testing done before Richard Allen's arrest? If it was tested and came back that DNA or other forensic evidence matches Richard Allen, why would the state leave that out of the PCA which people describe as flimsy?

Why would they tell the public they are still looking for another person too who could possibly be involved in the crime? Couldn't the defense say it was the "other person" that actually murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German by using law enforcement's and prosecutor's own words against them in court?

 

[WildHuncher]

My own opinion was if this bullet was from this crime, my idea was the person may have completed the crime and cleaned up and then ejected the chambered round because the crime is over.

This makes no sense to me as a motive for ejecting the round. If the crime is over, you might as well just go.

I have doubts for two reasons: the bullet flies up, you know it’s kicked out so I have doubts that a person takes the time to clean an entire crime scene (apparently clean of all fingerprints, DNA, blood, etc) and then leaves a bullet that very obviously flies out of their gun.

The use of the gun is to threaten. The racking of the slide on the pistol was likely used to emphasize the threat, not because it makes any sense to eject a perfectly good cartridge you could use to shoot someone, but because movie screenplay writers use it to signal the imminence of gunplay. The crime is just getting going and the killer is keeping his eyes on the girls.

And 2 I don’t think that this is an isolated area that no one has ever taken a very popular gun, a very popular size round, to go shooting before. This could be an old bullet that has nothing to do with this crime.

all MOO

No ordinary shooting scenario such as going out to plink at cans and bottles in the woods will result in leaving ejected live rounds. There would be lots of empty brass in a spot frequently used as a range, however. No one has mentioned that about the crime scene.

 

[grannygates]

Considering how much the defense want to twist facts I am going to go out on a limb here and say if there had been multiple bullets found between the bodies they would be shouting about it from the roof tops. We know only about one bullet that the defense are trying to get thrown out.

MOO

IMO There would need to be evidence that multiple bullets, casings, etc were found in this area and considering the overwhelming amount of “lost” evidence in this case, there’s no way of knowing for sure if such evidence did actually exist at one point.

 

[sunshineray]

I didn't know you were talking directly to me. Here are my opinions.

About BG on the bridge: something about the image doesn't look properly grounded to me.
That strange turn to the left: I've watched every video I could find of people walking the bridge and never found one where the walker took a sharp turn at that spot to avoid a bad place in the wood.
His clothing seems to have too much movement in the 3 second clip... that white thing changes shape, that brown pouch/whatever changes in appearance, his hood/hat/hair?
LE's comment about the reenactments being wrong.
This one has a number of side-by-side pics of him

I don't know about the pic of A being edited. Do you have a link to your comment about Attorney CW's comments?

In the beginning, there was that pic of BG showing the dark area that many thought it was part of A's sleeve. Then it was gone, apparently edited out of the pic. I have no idea who did that... LE?
Video with image of BG with dark area.
1:23 mm

And all that led you to say you think BG was never on the bridge at all?

It's not a big mystery they edited Abby out of the frames. I even think they edited the girls reacting to the gun, after "Guys" and right before "Down the hill". How does that translate to BG never having been on the bridge?

 

[grannygates]

This makes no sense to me as a motive for ejecting the round. If the crime is over, you might as well just go.

The use of the gun is to threaten. The racking of the slide on the pistol was likely used to emphasize the threat, not because it makes any sense to eject a perfectly good cartridge you could use to shoot someone, but because movie screenplay writers use it to signal the imminence of gunplay. The crime is just getting going and the killer is keeping his eyes on the girls.

No ordinary shooting scenario such as going out to plink at cans and bottles in the woods will result in leaving ejected live rounds. There would be lots of empty brass in a spot frequently used as a range, however. No one has mentioned that about the crime scene.

A gun jamming and having to eject the jammed cartridge would result in having a live round ejected from the gun.

Forgetting you already chambered a round and cocking it twice would result in a live round ejecting.

Picking up a live round you find on the ground that someone left for the above reasons, putting it in your pocket and then having it fall out of your pocket.

 

[sunshineray]

Ok, but wouldn't they test the DNA and other forensic evidence before making an arrest or was this testing done before Richard Allen's arrest? If it was tested and came back that DNA or other forensic evidence matches Richard Allen, why would the state leave that out of the PCA which people describe as flimsy?

Why would they tell the public they are still looking for another person too who could possibly be involved in the crime? Couldn't the defense say it was the "other person" that actually murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German by using law enforcement's and prosecutor's own words against them in court?

I know the testing Sheriff TL talked about was in December 2018, well before RA was arrested.

And in regards to your second paragraph. YES why wouldn't the defense ask the Prosecution to name who they thought may also be involved? Maybe the D have that information and maybe it goes in a totally different direction to people that don't support the D's Odinist-did-it defense? Or maybe right now it's protected information of an ongoing investigation? JMO

 

[Willow Knight]

From “Response to motion to disqualify” (Accessed through the Files section of Murder Sheet Facebook)
Defendant asserts the Court has denied reasonable requests for funding. This is incorrect.
Counsel is well aware of the amount of funds the Court has authorized for the defendant. The Court has requested the defendant to submit proper invoices and bills for Carroll County taxpayer funding. Invoices which have been submitted without appropriate documentation have been returned. The bill counsel refers to for $26,000 for investigative services from June 4, 2023, through October 16, 2023, was, in fact, returned to counsel as no documentation was provided for services. No documentation was submitted until quite recently. With that proper support and documentation, the Court authorized that invoice for payment on May 17, 2024.

This is one example that has made me rally mistrust this defence team. They made so much of RA being denied funds for his defence, and even created a fundraising campaign on this injustice.

My Opinion Only

Very angry over the defense here. Sending an invoice without proper documentation, that is crazy. All this for what? That is the real question. Time and energy spent on SODDI and MONEY. Huge for me, huge. I keep looking at my notes:

$26,000.00 Investigation Services (once the defense sent in proper documentation. Paid 5-17-24

$360,000.00 Paid to defense as of April 2024 (this was prior to 26K paid out)

$40,000.00 Fundraiser (ended 5-10-24)

Total $427,000.00 (and still counting)

Plus all the documentation and evidence received in the discovery, which cost the state to investigate over six years. Close to 200K

Will the Delphi double murder case cost Carroll County more than $2 million?

Richard Allen is charged with the 2017 double murders of teenagers Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi.

www.wthr.com

MSN

 

[TTF14]

With this logic then there should have been other random bullets just laying around the area waiting to be found if it’s a popular spot to drop bullets.

But as it turns out there was only one bullet found between the bodies that happens to match the gun RA owns according to LE.

Moo

We don't know that there weren't other bullets or casings found in those woods.

 

[Salah11]

We don't know that there weren't other bullets or casings found in those woods.

Can you show me the evidence that suggests that there was?

Considering how many Frankes were released if this was the case then I would have expected it to have been mentioned by tue defense. As it would there case if other bullets had been located.

 

[sunshineray]

Can you show me the evidence that suggests that there was?

Considering how many Frankes were released if this was the case then I would have expected it to have been mentioned by tue defense. As it would there case if other bullets had been located.

You know it!

 

[somequestions]

I know that we all looked hard at that photo on the bridge early on and one aspect we all noticed and discussed at length was how baggy BG’s clothes were. We theorized that his baggy upper body clothes were to carry and hide weapons etc., but we never could come up with an explanation as to why his pants were so baggy.
Until RA was arrested, then it became obvious.
RA is very short man. The pictures of him show him in ill fitting pants. Pants that fit his adult-sized torso are too long for his short legs and they bag noticeably. Just like the pants on BG in Libby’s picture. It was an “aha” moment for me.
We can argue about whether the blurry face of BG in the photo looks like RA, but there is no denying that the fit of the clothes are a perfect match.
That the FBI thought at some point,in an almost six year investigation, that the killer might be six feet tall is of zero consequence in my opinion.
To paraphrase:
“If the clothes fit, you must convict”

If a man has a big stomach, that can also cause pants not to fit properly.

 

[sunshineray]

Its really frustrating that the defense get to do trial by media even with a gag order in place.

Only one side is playing by the rules set out it feels like and yet they still get the most criticism from a section of the crowd.

Moo

And the number of attorneys, associated with the defense, who are talking about the case in SM has grown.