Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

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Absolutely agree and wasn't it said to be the first time Abby crossed? She may have been particularly slow in moving across MHB. I personally wouldn't cross it period, I'm terrified of heights and the shape it was in is crazy.

Maybe they crossed a bit at a time and stopped at the platforms taking pics, chatting etc.?

MOO
Jumping off this....

While BB saw BG, BG didn't necessarily see her.

I hold out that RA had Intel or tracking which gave him a scary advantage. When he passed the group of juveniles, he was IMO on a mission, wanted to get situated by the bridge, was aware he was mere minutes ahead of the girls.

When he was on the platform, he was IMO waiting....

The bench he claims he sat on before leaving, would that have been along the girls' path? As in

BB sees BG on platform. RA says he was on the platform. (Did anyone ever stand on the platform to see what vantage RA had? What could he see from there? BB? Parking lot/s? Crime scene? Portions of the path?)
BB turns and sees A and L
RA leaves the bridge
RA sits on the bench
(RA claims he left after that. Guess he sat there for an hour?
A and L continue toward the bridge.
RA and A and L most certainly encounter one another.
RA lies about it.
Perhaps he was on the bench when they went past?
Maybe they slowed up, because they didn't want to go past him.
Girls cross bridge, L takes photo of A. BG is not in the photo. He either hasn't begun crossing yet or he crossed and is behind Libby (will pass them, then double back again).

L starts recording BG, wearing the same outfit RA says he wore that day....

So much synchronicity. Of the worst kind.

JMO
 
The timeline of this case has something I cannot explain.

If the witness who arrived at a little after 1:46pm(BB) was on a fitness walk, the I think it can be sort of safe to assume she walked to the Monon High Bridge, saw Richard Allen on platform 1 maybe staring at him for less than 30 seconds, and turned around and walked back towards the Mears entrance. She might not have left right away since the Hoosier Harvest Store camera video does not show her vehicle leaving until around 2:14pm.

It takes about 5 minutes to walk to the Monon High Bridge from the Mears entrance according to some video I have seen. The witness says she saw who she thought was Abby and Libby about halfway as she was walking back toward her vehicle and the girls were walking towards the Monon High Bridge. If she leaves here vehicle and walks to the Monon High Bridge, she would get there to observe Richard Allen at about 1:52pm. This means on the way back she would have passed the girls at around 1:54-1:55pm and the girls would already have been halfway to the bridge.

If the snapchat photo of the entire length of the bridge was not taken until about 2:05pm, why did it take Abby and Libby nearly 10 minutes to walk the rest of the way when it should only have taken about 2 minutes and 30 seconds?

I know the snapchat photo might have only been posted at 2:05pm and taken earlier, but it appears to me from the next one at 2:07pm and the girl's location on the bridge at the time of that photo that when they take a photo, they post it relatively quick after that. It does not appear that Libby waits to post, but I do not know that for sure.

If Richard Allen gave details in his confession that no one else would know, then none of this will matter. But if not, the prosecution's entire case could rest on this eyewitness testimony when it comes to placing Richard Allen on the Monon High Bridge at the time the girls were abducted and murdered. Without knowing the confessions, I do not think this is a very solid case to prove.
She was walking her dog. Dogs, in my experience, stop and go, sniffing this and that or watching birds and squirrels. Saying BB routes to and from should have only taken so long from point A to B have no dog factor. Just some thoughts
 
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Being "ready to go" and being hamstrung by time limitations imposed by the judge are two differing issues.
Hummm yes of course. I don't believe giving the D what they asked for, a speedy trial, is hamstringing them. The defense asking for extra time when the law says the judge can't do that now, after the jury has been told certain things (which the D agreed to) is also not the judge hindering the defense. They've hamstrung themselves. AJMO

Edit to clarify: I'm talking about the potential jurists of course
 
I gave up working on the timeline because I can't make it work on either end of the trail.

The P used the KG departure time as also being the arrival time. If the girls did arrive earlier than that, the whole timeline on that end of the bridge does not work for me.

There's a questionable time gap, IMO, between the timings of the group of 4 and when BB sighted them on the bridge.
Sighted the group of 4 on the bridge? Did you mean him on the bridge?
 
Being "ready to go" and being hamstrung by time limitations imposed by the judge are two differing issues.
IMO, I don't think Judge Gull hamstrung the Defense. They were advised of the trial dates, agreed without raising any conflicts...right up until before the hearings were to be held on May 21-23rd.

The Defense knew the amount of time Judge Gull planned for the trial, why didn't they state their objections or concerns immediately?

This is another example of their blatant pattern of underhanded, last minute, slight of hand behavior that they've displayed throughout this entire case.

A stall tactic (because they're not ready) and then they topped that sundae off with a cherry by adding a Motion for JG's Recusal again, assuring she cannot rule on any Motions.

JMO respectfully
 
IMO, I don't think Judge Gull hamstrung the Defense. They were advised of the trial dates, agreed without raising any conflicts...right up until before the hearings were to be held on May 21-23rd.

The Defense knew the amount of time Judge Gull planned for the trial, why didn't they state their objections or concerns immediately?

This is another example of their blatant pattern of underhanded, last minute, slight of hand behavior that they've displayed throughout this entire case.

A stall tactic (because they're not ready) and then they topped that sundae off with a cherry by adding a Motion for JG's Recusal again, assuring she cannot rule on any Motions.

JMO respectfully
Some might see that type of stuff as good lawyering, I agree with you, it's underhanded
 
Hummm yes of course. I don't believe giving the D what they asked for, a speedy trial, is hamstringing them. The defense asking for extra time when the law says the judge can't do that now, after the jury has been told certain things (which the D agreed to) is also not the judge hindering the defense. They've hamstrung themselves. AJMO

Edit to clarify: I'm talking about the potential jurists of course
I don't agree that the law doesn't allow for the judge to extend the time of trial. Jury Rule 4 doesn't address the situation at all.

See: Rule 4 - Notice of Selection for Jury Pool and Summons for Jury Service, Ind. Ju. R. 4 | Casetext Search + Citator
 
IMO, I don't think Judge Gull hamstrung the Defense. They were advised of the trial dates, agreed without raising any conflicts...right up until before the hearings were to be held on May 21-23rd.

The Defense knew the amount of time Judge Gull planned for the trial, why didn't they state their objections or concerns immediately?

This is another example of their blatant pattern of underhanded, last minute, slight of hand behavior that they've displayed throughout this entire case.

A stall tactic (because they're not ready) and then they topped that sundae off with a cherry by adding a Motion for JG's Recusal again, assuring she cannot rule on any Motions.

JMO respectfully
As to why the defense didn't state objections earlier, well they could if (1) Gull was willing to communicate with them, which she wasn't; (2) prosecution was continually slow dripping discovery to the defense, so they really didn't know how much time it would take to rebut new potential evidence; and (3) they were given a very short amount of time to discuss and make the decision to ask for a continuance, without being afforded the courtesy to speak privately with their client. Another Hobson's choice; Gull likes to offer those.
 
If the snapchat photo of the entire length of the bridge was not taken until about 2:05pm, why did it take Abby and Libby nearly 10 minutes to walk the rest of the way when it should only have taken about 2 minutes and 30 seconds?

It can’t be assumed it took the girls nearly 10 minutes to walk the rest of the way. Have you ever watched young people taking photos of each other? It involves a time-consuming, very disciplined and dedicated process. Rarely is the first pic the final product, often taking quite awhile to get everything just right much like any art.

The cellphone forensics will have provided LE with additional timeline info involving photo taking and snapchat. They have no reason nor obligation to inform the general public of it prior to trial, so due to lack of factual information we’re unable to draw a precise conclusion.

JMO
 
It can’t be assumed it took the girls nearly 10 minutes to walk the rest of the way. Have you ever watched young people taking photos of each other? It involves a time-consuming, very disciplined and dedicated process. Rarely is the first pic the final product, often taking quite awhile to get everything just right much like any art.

The cellphone forensics will have provided LE with additional timeline info involving photo taking and snapchat. They have no reason nor obligation to inform the general public of it prior to trial, so due to lack of factual information we’re unable to draw a precise conclusion.

JMO

Very true. thanks
 
It can’t be assumed it took the girls nearly 10 minutes to walk the rest of the way. Have you ever watched young people taking photos of each other? It involves a time-consuming, very disciplined and dedicated process. Rarely is the first pic the final product, often taking quite awhile to get everything just right much like any art.

The cellphone forensics will have provided LE with additional timeline info involving photo taking and snapchat. They have no reason nor obligation to inform the general public of it prior to trial, so due to lack of factual information we’re unable to draw a precise conclusion.

JMO
I agree-- we do not know if it took girls 10 minutes or not
We have a drop off time and Libby's photos of the bridge and of Abby on the bridge at the other end and then the video of BG (which IMO, is pretty awesome to even have those thanks to quick thinking Libby ** )

Not only wanting to have the "Perfect" or a better picture which involves taking a few photos, using filters etc, which would take time
BUT-- the bridge condition also would contribute to the time to walk across it.
Boards that you walked on were rotted through, some boards were Missing so a larger gap between them... you have to tread cautiously plus no side rails.
 
Jumping off this....

While BB saw BG, BG didn't necessarily see her.

I hold out that RA had Intel or tracking which gave him a scary advantage. When he passed the group of juveniles, he was IMO on a mission, wanted to get situated by the bridge, was aware he was mere minutes ahead of the girls.

When he was on the platform, he was IMO waiting....

The bench he claims he sat on before leaving, would that have been along the girls' path? As in

BB sees BG on platform. RA says he was on the platform. (Did anyone ever stand on the platform to see what vantage RA had? What could he see from there? BB? Parking lot/s? Crime scene? Portions of the path?)
BB turns and sees A and L
RA leaves the bridge
RA sits on the bench
(RA claims he left after that. Guess he sat there for an hour?
A and L continue toward the bridge.
RA and A and L most certainly encounter one another.
RA lies about it.
Perhaps he was on the bench when they went past?
Maybe they slowed up, because they didn't want to go past him.
Girls cross bridge, L takes photo of A. BG is not in the photo. He either hasn't begun crossing yet or he crossed and is behind Libby (will pass them, then double back again).

L starts recording BG, wearing the same outfit RA says he wore that day....

So much synchronicity. Of the worst kind.

JMO
IMO RA never sat in a bench on that day. He entered by Freedom Bridge and walked to MHB. He intercepted A&L in the MHB and marched them by gunpoint to their death.
RA was not seen on the trails from 2:00-4:00pm. And other people entered and exited the trails during that time. He was not sitting on a bench,
walking while watching his stock ticker or admiring fish. He was not seen at all after those girls were abducted until almost 2 hours later.
He never left using the trails after the crime because he couldn’t cross paths with DG and other witnesses. Instead he was witnessed walking back toward his car- appearing like he had been in a fight. JMO
To me this is an open/shut case and the only reason he isn’t already convicted is because his irresponsible and over zealous attorneys want to become the next “dream team”.
All my opinion
 
06/03/2024Order Issued
The Court has reviewed the Defense Second Verified Motion to Disqualify Judge And Request For Findings Of Fact And Conclusions Of Law Upon Denial Of This Request If This Court Denies This Request, filed May 17, 2024. As Trial Rule 52 is not applicable in criminal cases, the defendant's request for Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law is denied. Neely v. State, 297 N.E.2d 847 (Ind. App. 1973); Davis v. State, 642 N.E.2d 987 (Ind. App. 1994). The Court, however, will address each of defendant's allegations in this Order. Defendant claims the Court directed the Carroll County Sheriff to ignore a subpoena. The Court directed an e-mail to counsel on June 14, 2023, regarding the witness refusing to cooperate with the service of the subpoena and demonstrating a willingness to fight the Deputy attempting service. The Court requested a report of the witness' refusal to cooperate and be transported for the scheduled hearing and forwarded that report to counsel when it was received. The decision by the Deputy to leave without the witness was his and was not directed by the Court. Defendant claims the Court engaged in ex parte communication with the Carroll County Sheriff regarding defendant's housing, transportation, and safety during jury selection and trial May 13-31, 2024. These communications were administrative in nature and did not address any substantive issues. The communications were directed to where the defendant would be housed during the trial and who would be conducting transportation. The Court did notify counsel where defendant would be housed during the trial (as he is still under the safekeeping order) in an e-mail, but did not inform counsel of the communication, as nothing substantively was discussed. The Court has set the defendant's Motion to Vacate Safekeeping Order for hearing, but was required to cancel the hearing upon the filing of this pending Second Verified Motion to Disqualify. Counsel claim the Court invited the State to limit defendant's Sixth Amendment right to present a defense. The Court has always required counsel in all criminal cases to follow the law relating to third-party perpetrators. The Court reminded counsel of their obligation to follow the law in the Court's e-mail of April 28, 2024. Counsel claim the Court has disparaged them and ruled on defense pleadings without hearings. The Court's comments about counsels' performance were documented in the Court's Order of April 30, 2024, regarding their handling of discovery materials. If pleadings on their face are not supported by the law or admissible evidence, judicial economy does not require a hearing. Allegations the Court has treated the Prosecution more favorably than the defense are unsupported by any admissible evidence provided by the defense at the March 18, 2024, hearing. The Court was notified on May 20, 2024, of an inquiry by the Indiana State Police to the Court Reporter via e-mail on May 9, 2024, regarding ex parte communication received by the Court from Gary Beaudette (which was previously provided to all counsel). The Court is unaware of the extent of any Indiana State Police investigation. Defendant blames the Court for ex parte pleadings which were inadvertently directed to the Prosecutor. The defense staff filed pleadings and marked them as "confidential", apparently unaware that the "confidential" marking makes them available to the State, but not the public. Counsels' staff contacted this Court's staff and were advised that the Statewide Odyssey Case Management System (not DoxPop as alleged in the pleading) has a distinct process for filing pleadings "ex parte" as opposed to "confidential". The Court did e-mail defense counsel a tutorial paper authored by JTAC explaining the process. Since that communication, defense counsel have had no issues with their staff properly filing ex parte pleadings. Accusations of violating Rules on Access to Court Records have been completely explained and dealt with, including by the Indiana Supreme Court in the first Writ of Mandamus filed by defendant. Counsel claim their Motions are treated differently than those Motions filed by the State. The Court has set hearings on pending Motions which have now been continued due to the filing of this Motion to Disqualify. When defendant files pleadings, the State is entitled to file a response. The Court follows Trial Rule 6 regarding time and gives the State twenty (20) days to respond. Defendant is also given twenty (20) days to reply to the State's responses. Once the issues are closed, if a hearing is required, one will be set. Defendant asserts that the Court ignored his request to set aside two weeks for the defense case while refusing to set time limits on the Prosecution. On March 6, 2024, defendant filed a Motion for Speedy Trial. The Court granted that Motion on March 7, 2024, and set the case for speedy trial May 13-31, 2024. On April 30, 2024, defendant filed a Motion for a Pre-Trial Hearing, which the Court set for hearing on May 7, 2024. At no time prior to the May 7, 2024, hearing did defendant advise the Court that three (3) weeks for trial was inadequate. At no time prior to May 7, 2024, did defendant indicate a belief that three (3) additional weeks could be added to the trial without notice to the Court, witnesses, and more importantly, without notice to the potential jurors. While the Court agrees a continuance of the trial is harmful to the defendant and the State, it could have been avoided had counsel communicated prior to May 7, 2024. Counsel represent they notified the Court on or about October 4, 2023, that they would need two (2) weeks to present a defense, but the Court has no record of that communication, nor any recall of such communication. Counsels' assertion that "Between all defense counsel with a combined seventy (70) years of experience not one time have they been told that a trial would absolutely end on a certain day and not go any longer" is irrational and unreasonable. The Court is aware its colleagues across the state routinely give trial dates that begin on a set date and end on a set date. The Court is not required to guarantee equal time for both the defendant and the State. The Court is required to guarantee sufficient time on the calendar and sufficient notice to jurors and the parties to present their case, however long it takes. Had Counsel notified the Court within days of receiving the March 7, 2024, Court Order setting the case for speedy trial May 13-31, 2024, that the time allotted on the calendar was insufficient, the Court would have immediately rectified the situation and extended the trial to May 13 - June 14, 2024. Trial is now set for October 14 - November 15, 2024, as requested by the defendant. Counsel accuse the Court of engaging in extrajudicial activity. Counsel is correct that on July 9, 2023, the Court commented on a Facebook post about a softball tournament her granddaughter participated in in Delphi. The Court did not attend the tournament, but did say "Congratulations" to her former daughter-in-law's post about their team winning the tournament. If Counsels' allegations in this part of their Motion are well-founded (regarding a potential witness' alleged social media activities) and are presented to the Court for ruling, the Court will rule accordingly. Concerns about anticipatory rulings are not reasonable. Defendant asserts the Court has denied reasonable requests for funding. This is incorrect. Counsel is well aware of the amount of funds the Court has authorized for the defendant. The Court has requested the defendant to submit proper invoices and bills for Carroll County taxpayer funding. Invoices which have been submitted without appropriate documentation have been returned. The bill counsel refers to for $26,000 for investigative services from June 4, 2023, through October 16, 2023, was, in fact, returned to counsel as no documentation was provided for services. No documentation was submitted until quite recently. With that proper support and documentation, the Court authorized that invoice for payment on May 17, 2024. Defendant complains that public confidence in this case has eroded. As counsel should know, criminal cases are tried in a Court of law, not in the court of public opinion. An independent judiciary requires that judges decide cases according to the law and facts without regard to public clamor or fear of criticism. The Court continues to receive ex parte communications from the public criticizing the Court both personally and professionally, and threatening the Court with bodily harm and injury. The Court continues to provide these communications to the parties. The Court is not interested in "memes and other social media content that can be easily located on the internet" (Paragraph 129 of defendant's Second Verified Motion to Disqualify). The Court cannot be swayed by inappropriate and ridiculous outside influences. Defendant further claims the Court has refused to order the State to comply with discovery rules. The Court has set defendant's Motion to Compel and Motion for Sanctions for hearing, which has been continued due to the filing of this Motion to Disqualify. The previous defense Motion to Compel was denied without hearing as it was unsupported by evidence. Defense counsel allege bias by the Court only allowing cameras in the Courtroom on one occasion. The Court has not allowed cameras in the Carroll Circuit Court due to its limited size and layout. The Court did allow cameras in the Allen Superior Court at the hearing conducted on October 19, 2023. The hearing was not conducted, and the media outlet providing pool coverage did not comply with the Court's directives regarding coverage and broadcasting of the proceedings. The Court lost confidence in the ability of the media to cover hearings appropriately. The Court has issued adverse rulings against the defendant, as well as against the State of Indiana. Adverse rulings do not support a reasonable basis for questioning the Court's impartiality, nor are they grounds for disqualification, they are just adverse rulings. Defendant's Second Verified Motion to Disqualify Judge And Request For Findings Of Fact And Conclusions Of Law Upon Denial Of This Request, If This Court Denies This Request is denied.
Judicial Officer:
Gull, Frances -SJ
Noticed:
McLeland, Nicholas Charles
Noticed:
Baldwin, Andrew Joseph
Noticed:
Rozzi, Bradley Anthony
Noticed:
Luttrull, James David JR
Noticed:
Diener, Stacey Lynn
Noticed:
Auger, Jennifer Jones
Order Signed:
05/31/2024

6/03/2024Order Issued
The Court has reviewed defense counsels' counsel's Petition to Strike Gratuitous and Demeaning Commentary and/or "Findings" from Contempt Order, filed May 8, 2024. As the Court granted counsel Hennessy's "Motion for Specific Findings of Fact and Conclusions Thereon" filed on March 12, 2024, this Motion is denied.
Judicial Officer:
Gull, Frances -SJ
Noticed:
McLeland, Nicholas Charles
Noticed:
Baldwin, Andrew Joseph
Noticed:
Rozzi, Bradley Anthony
Noticed:
Luttrull, James David JR
Noticed:
Diener, Stacey Lynn
Noticed:
Auger, Jennifer Jones
Order Signed:
05/31/2024



 
Every court case I’ve witnessed the judge asks each party how long they need to present their case and they go from there to schedule the dates that work for everyone.

IMO It’s odd and bizarre this judge arbitrarily schedules court dates with no idea if those dates will satisfy either sides needs to adequately present their case ? Don’t we want both sides to have enough time to present their case?
 
Every court case I’ve witnessed the judge asks each party how long they need to present their case and they go from there to schedule the dates that work for everyone.

IMO It’s odd and bizarre this judge arbitrarily schedules court dates with no idea if those dates will satisfy either sides needs to adequately present their case ? Don’t we want both sides to have enough time to present their case?
The defense team did not notify court that they would need more time in record time.
They knew the original time allotted and did not let the court know they would need more time.
They waited until the last moment to say they needed more time.
PER the document above, had the Defense team let the court know ahead of time, the court would have accommodated them.
It was their own fault they did not communicate that to the court.


"The Court is required to guarantee sufficient time on the calendar and sufficient notice to jurors and the parties to present their case, however long it takes. Had Counsel notified the Court within days of receiving the March 7, 2024, Court Order setting the case for speedy trial May 13-31, 2024, that the time allotted on the calendar was insufficient, the Court would have immediately rectified the situation and extended the trial to May 13 - June 14, 2024. "

 
Every court case I’ve witnessed the judge asks each party how long they need to present their case and they go from there to schedule the dates that work for everyone.

IMO It’s odd and bizarre this judge arbitrarily schedules court dates with no idea if those dates will satisfy either sides needs to adequately present their case ? Don’t we want both sides to have enough time to present their case?
I have no legal background. However, from watching live streams from various courts, I concluded that was the purpose of pretrial hearings and final pretrial hearings = making sure the ship was on course.

This is such a high-profile case... I just don't understand this judge, at all.
I'm not surprised she refused to recuse.
Good on her that she made her decision fairly quickly.
 
The defense team did not notify court that they would need more time in record time.
They knew the original time allotted and did not let the court know they would need more time.
They waited until the last moment to say they needed more time.
PER the document above, had the Defense team let the court know ahead of time, the court would have accommodated them.
It was their own fault they did not communicate that to the court.


"The Court is required to guarantee sufficient time on the calendar and sufficient notice to jurors and the parties to present their case, however long it takes. Had Counsel notified the Court within days of receiving the March 7, 2024, Court Order setting the case for speedy trial May 13-31, 2024, that the time allotted on the calendar was insufficient, the Court would have immediately rectified the situation and extended the trial to May 13 - June 14, 2024. "

Counsel represent they notified the Court on or about October 4, 2023, that they would need two (2) weeks to present a defense, but the Court has no record of that communication, nor any recall of such communication.”

The defense states they advised the court well within the time period and court claims they have no record of that.
 
Counsel represent they notified the Court on or about October 4, 2023, that they would need two (2) weeks to present a defense, but the Court has no record of that communication, nor any recall of such communication.”

The defense states they advised the court well within the time period and court claims they have no record of that.

I hope they kept their receipts.
Same goes for Nick.
 
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