Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #185

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mental Health

www.in.gov www.in.gov

The Mental Health Division offers a continuum of clinical mental health services provided by our contracted mental health services providers that include intake, routine interventions, crisis management, addiction recovery services, and special needs services to all incarcerated persons. the incarcerated person with identified mental health needs are seen routinely, and upon request. Incarcerated persons may request mental health services at any time at no charge. Services are provided in the least restrictive setting in which the patient's mental health symptoms may be managed. Our mission is to provide all incarcerated persons with mental health needs access to comprehensive mental health services.

Intake services include mental health screening, suicide prevention screening, appraisal, and evaluation to determine mental health needs and plan for treatment. Each incarcerated person meets with a mental health clinician and participates in a structured appraisal interview that includes information about current and past mental health treatment, substance use and treatment, educational history, and other relevant information that allows the clinician to decide about the patient’s need for referral or further mental health evaluation.

Routine services are available at general population facilities and, to a limited extent, at work release centers. These interventions include screening, evaluation, treatment planning, individual and group therapies, psychoeducation, and discharge planning. Routine psychiatric interventions include evaluation and medication management. Patients who are placed in restrictive housing receive routine mental health monitoring and review.

Specialized mental health services are available at mental health units located in New Castle Correctional Facility, Pendleton Correctional Facility, and Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (for incarcerated males), and Indiana Women’s Prison (for incarcerated females). These services include evaluation, stabilization, testing, treatment planning, individual and group therapies, behavior modification, and psychoeducation in a highly structured environment. Psychiatric special needs services include evaluation, stabilization, and medication management. Incarcerated persons who may need treatment in a mental health unit are discussed on weekly staffing calls, and placement in a mental health unit occurs within a few days to a few weeks after approval.

All correctional staff receive training related to mental health and suicide prevention. Staff working in mental health units for more than thirty (30) calendar days in a year must attend specialized training for certification as Certified Treatment Specialists that includes information on identifying symptoms and behaviors related to mental illness, de-escalation strategies, and appropriate communication with patients with mental illness. Multidisciplinary teams comprised of treatment, custody, unit team, and administrative staff work collaboratively to balance the need for safety and security, mental health treatment, and re-entry preparedness in areas where patients with serious mental illness reside. Case management staff coordinate release planning with our clinical staff, and Parole Release Liaisons embedded in each of the parole districts around the state work in conjunction with parole staff to ensure that the releasing person with special needs have access to the care and resources that they need in the community.
 
Ravenmoon said:
Please know that this is strictly my opinion:

They are going to match the DNA at the CS to RA, well, at least partially.

AND, they will have some article of clothing ( or reminent of clothing) that has the girls DNA on it that was found at the Whiteman house.

I also think that the water bottle that was removed will show a connection as well as the yellow rope.

I will bet that same yellow rope was present and recovered from RA's home. It could be as simple as a cut in the rope matching the fibers and the cut at the crime scene.

ALL OF THIS IS JUST MY OPINION
Click to expand...
The reason this does not make sense is why would the prosecution not put this info in the PCA? Why let the case turn into a possible violation of a person's civil rights? Why let people think Richard Allen could possibly be an innocent man? It is turns out they have DNA they can use to prove his guilt, then he will be found guilty at trial. But like so many aspects of this case, do they actually have DNA evidence against Richard Allen or not?

The PCA is weak in my opinion. Did LE ask Richard Allen to provide his DNA? Did LE secretly take something from Richard Allen's trash to test and match the DNA? Did Holeman press Richard Allen about the DNA evidence they have against him? Did the defense team hire a scientific expert to be able to have their lab process the DNA test? Did the prosecution provide the defense with the lab results regarding Richard Allen's DNA? Did they ever find the murder weapon in Deer Creek and tie it to Richard Allen? Did Richard Allen really confess with details only the killer would know? No one seems to know.

Did the main witness(BB), who saw who she thought was Richard Allen on Platform 1, have dogs with her while walking to the Monon High Bridge that day or not? Were they friendly dogs that two teenage girls might try to pet?

I do not know what to think about this case or Richard Allen's guilt or innocence because there is not enough info out there for the public to come to a reasonable opinion.
 
TTF14 said:
I would imagine that it sometimes does happen, especially when juries are sequestered. Judge Gull saying that's the only way she has ever done it and has never heard of trials have open-ended end dates are what I take issue with.....it just can't possibly be true unless she lives in a bubble! IANAL, but I have watched a lot of trials (none with sequestration for the whole time that I can recall) and have never seen it, not once.

Seems to me that it's much more typical for trials to be scheduled "extra long" to provide a cushion. And if they end "early" then that opens up the schedule for emergency hearings or a quick scheduling of hearings for other cases, etc. There's no shortage of crime in this country, so I doubt it's difficult to fill up those slots or get caught up on paperwork!

@AugustWest - what say you about this topic?

IMO MOO
Click to expand...
@TTF14

In my opinion and experience it is unusual to place a time limit on a trial. Doing so puts great pressure on a jury to come to a verdict within the time period. Do you simply call mistrial when the jury runs out of time during deliberations?

It isn't abnormal, however, for the prosecution to get a greater amount of time to argue their case-in-chief. They carry the burden of proof, so courts normally allow them more time to do so.

I have seen lawyers be timed on closing statements and some witness questioning. Not a hard deadline though.
 
FrostedGlass said:

Mental Health

www.in.gov www.in.gov

The Mental Health Division offers a continuum of clinical mental health services provided by our contracted mental health services providers that include intake, routine interventions, crisis management, addiction recovery services, and special needs services to all incarcerated persons. the incarcerated person with identified mental health needs are seen routinely, and upon request. Incarcerated persons may request mental health services at any time at no charge. Services are provided in the least restrictive setting in which the patient's mental health symptoms may be managed. Our mission is to provide all incarcerated persons with mental health needs access to comprehensive mental health services.

Intake services include mental health screening, suicide prevention screening, appraisal, and evaluation to determine mental health needs and plan for treatment. Each incarcerated person meets with a mental health clinician and participates in a structured appraisal interview that includes information about current and past mental health treatment, substance use and treatment, educational history, and other relevant information that allows the clinician to decide about the patient’s need for referral or further mental health evaluation.

Routine services are available at general population facilities and, to a limited extent, at work release centers. These interventions include screening, evaluation, treatment planning, individual and group therapies, psychoeducation, and discharge planning. Routine psychiatric interventions include evaluation and medication management. Patients who are placed in restrictive housing receive routine mental health monitoring and review.

Specialized mental health services are available at mental health units located in New Castle Correctional Facility, Pendleton Correctional Facility, and Wabash Valley Correctional Facility (for incarcerated males), and Indiana Women’s Prison (for incarcerated females). These services include evaluation, stabilization, testing, treatment planning, individual and group therapies, behavior modification, and psychoeducation in a highly structured environment. Psychiatric special needs services include evaluation, stabilization, and medication management. Incarcerated persons who may need treatment in a mental health unit are discussed on weekly staffing calls, and placement in a mental health unit occurs within a few days to a few weeks after approval.

All correctional staff receive training related to mental health and suicide prevention. Staff working in mental health units for more than thirty (30) calendar days in a year must attend specialized training for certification as Certified Treatment Specialists that includes information on identifying symptoms and behaviors related to mental illness, de-escalation strategies, and appropriate communication with patients with mental illness. Multidisciplinary teams comprised of treatment, custody, unit team, and administrative staff work collaboratively to balance the need for safety and security, mental health treatment, and re-entry preparedness in areas where patients with serious mental illness reside. Case management staff coordinate release planning with our clinical staff, and Parole Release Liaisons embedded in each of the parole districts around the state work in conjunction with parole staff to ensure that the releasing person with special needs have access to the care and resources that they need in the community.
Click to expand...
Hi @FrostedGlass! Could you kindly copy and paste this into a letter and send it to Westville? They obviously missed the memo. :rolleyes:
 
I've not put much thought into RA’s confessions he made to his mother and wife due to his circumstances. I suspect he is frustrated, on edge and his mental health is beyond what anyone could imagine - as humans it’s only natural to vent and be irritable toward those we love the most. So, yes, I can certainly understand why he would choose to confess to his mother and wife.

Then I think back to February 2017, RA put himself at the scene, on the bridge.

In addition, maybe there is something -- did he actually do this crime? Idk. I hope we find out what the evidence against him is. What DNA do they have? Was the Carhartt jacket found? This case feels like it's been at least 20 years old. moo

Justice for Abby & Libby
 
grannygates said:
re: no restriction on prosecution time and definitive end dates on criminal trials.

Since I read that I've been scouring the internet to determine if this has ever been done in a criminal trial. I haven't found anything that says that this happens or is normal. The legal professionals that I've found that are talking about this judges order are saying exactly the opposite. its unheard of in their history.

Obviously I haven't exhausted the entire internet of information. But if its real, there has to be something out there that says this has happened before and I'm just not finding it. Does anyone have any links that say this is something that happens?
Click to expand...

This is a completely moot point in my opinion.
The defense manipulated it perfectly by not mentioning their supposed issue with it until right before the trial.
They got what they wanted….a month for the trial. <modsnip>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
somequestions said:
The reason this does not make sense is why would the prosecution not put this info in the PCA? Why let the case turn into a possible violation of a person's civil rights? Why let people think Richard Allen could possibly be an innocent man? It is turns out they have DNA they can use to prove his guilt, then he will be found guilty at trial. But like so many aspects of this case, do they actually have DNA evidence against Richard Allen or not?

The PCA is weak in my opinion. Did LE ask Richard Allen to provide his DNA? Did LE secretly take something from Richard Allen's trash to test and match the DNA? Did Holeman press Richard Allen about the DNA evidence they have against him? Did the defense team hire a scientific expert to be able to have their lab process the DNA test? Did the prosecution provide the defense with the lab results regarding Richard Allen's DNA? Did they ever find the murder weapon in Deer Creek and tie it to Richard Allen? Did Richard Allen really confess with details only the killer would know? No one seems to know.

Did the main witness(BB), who saw who she thought was Richard Allen on Platform 1, have dogs with her while walking to the Monon High Bridge that day or not? Were they friendly dogs that two teenage girls might try to pet?

I do not know what to think about this case or Richard Allen's guilt or innocence because there is not enough info out there for the public to come to a reasonable opinion.
Click to expand...
I also wonder (and I’m not a lawyer) if there was DNA matching RA, the defense should know by now. Would the defense be allowed to state in the Franks Motion (like a dozen times) about how there’s no DNA, fingerprints, cell data, direct evidence etc? if there is DNA, they should know, so wouldn’t that be an outright lie ?

Every single motion/order/document seems to be a complete study in semantics. Very possible there’s creative semantics/wordplay around those statements that I’m completely missing as well.
 
grannygates said:
I could never even guess what I would do if I was wrongfully accused and then exposed to psychologically torture for year and a half. Probably go insane? With the stories that I’ve read and heard from prison staff re: what happens to people in segregation, people who are actually convicted of crimes, none of this surprises me. I’m just hopeful there’s competent medical staff taking care of the situation.
Click to expand...
MOO Its his lawyers province to get him more than stabilizing.
They aren't shy of motions, why no eval?
 
arielilane said:
I've not put much thought into RA’s confessions he made to his mother and wife due to his circumstances. I suspect he is frustrated, on edge and his mental health is beyond what anyone could imagine - as humans it’s only natural to vent and be irritable toward those we love the most. So, yes, I can certainly understand why he would choose to confess to his mother and wife.

Then I think back to February 2017, RA put himself at the scene, on the bridge.

In addition, maybe there is something -- did he actually do this crime? Idk. I hope we find out what the evidence against him is. What DNA do they have? Was the Carhartt jacket found? This case feels like it's been at least 20 years old. moo

Justice for Abby & Libby
Click to expand...
@FrostedGlass shared the warrant return on the previous page and there is a blue carhartt jacket listed as collected. It’s not mentioned on the list of items sent to the lab so I don’t know what happened surrounding that. I expected for it to be absolutely dismantled and tested.
 
Ravenmoon said:
Not yet.
I believe that we will have to wait for trial.
IMO there is going to be a bombshell regarding DNA, , how it links the suspect and the source of the DNA.
Click to expand...
Yep, it may be his wife's hair or a pet's hair. The fibers could be big also, if they aren't too common. It amazes me that some think the P's evidence is thin because they haven't talked about it, because it's not been made public. It's like some don't realize there's a gag order in place. Probably because of all the D's leaks. JMO
 
sunshineray said:
Yep, it may be his wife's hair or a pet's hair. The fibers could be big also, if they aren't too common. It amazes me that some think the P's evidence is thin because they haven't talked about it, because it's not been made public. It's like some don't realize there's a gag order in place. Probably because of all the D's leaks. JMO
Click to expand...
BBM

Could be! Time will tell. I hope they have something more than "we" have seen so far because the evidence against RA seems very flimsy. But I also firmly believe he didn't actually kill them and there are many more involved and not yet arrested so that could be clouding my judgment. IMO MOO
 
grannygates said:
My description of segregation as psychological torture is based on the information in these articles.


news.un.org

Solitary confinement should be banned in most cases, UN expert says

A United Nations expert on torture today called on all countries to ban the solitary confinement of prisoners except in very exceptional circumstances and for as short a time as possible, with an absolute prohibition in the case of juveniles and people with mental disabilities.
news.un.org news.un.org
Click to expand...
I wonder if keeping a man alive is considered an "exceptional circumstance"?
 
FrostedGlass said:
ISP Property Record and Receipt from the search on RA's property and vehicle.
Page 114

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org www.documentcloud.org

It appears that nothing, out of all those items taken, were lab examined except for the gun, bullet and carpet scrap from his vehicle.
Click to expand...
There may be updates to that since then, that the public isn't privy to. MO
 
grannygates said:
My description of segregation as psychological torture is based on the information in these articles.


news.un.org

Solitary confinement should be banned in most cases, UN expert says

A United Nations expert on torture today called on all countries to ban the solitary confinement of prisoners except in very exceptional circumstances and for as short a time as possible, with an absolute prohibition in the case of juveniles and people with mental disabilities.
news.un.org news.un.org
Click to expand...

Interesting. Thank you for sharing. I do wonder how much personality types/prior psych. evals are taken into account when doing studies/writing reports like this. Personally, I have a difficult time feeling any kind of emotion or conviction about this because I look at from my own world/life view: I think I'd do quite well in solitary confinement if the only variable is interacting with other humans (not taking food/toileting/physical comfort of clothing or sleeping arrangements into account).

Some people just do far better than others at being alone. Admittedly, my thoughts about the issue could be very flawed and don't include abuse by guards, etc. But, when I look at other cases, I think some innately MUST be able to handle it better than others. Take for instance Charlie Adelson and Chad Daybell. Charlie would probably die quickly in permanent solitary because he's a chatterbox and needs people to listen to him. Chad Daybell will probably thrive on death row because he's an emotionless potato who only needs his books.

JMO IMO



IMO MOO
 
Here is an example of the problem with this case and the information released to the public so far.

At approximately 1:26pm on February 13th, 2017, a car resembling Richard Allen's 2016 black Ford Focus passed the Hoosier Harvest store surveillance camera heading west towards the old CPS building. It is presumed this vehicle then parked at the old CPS building. In my opinion, the only thing this proves is that a car resembling a 2016 black Ford Focus passed the Hoosier Harvest store surveillance camera at 1:26pm on February 13, 2017.

However, if we find out later that the Hoosier Harvest store surveillance camera was able to capture the license plate of the vehicle as it passed by and it matches Richard Allen's vehicle, then it could be seen as at least proof that he or someone operating his vehicle was driving on the road at that time of day. Or maybe the surveillance camera can catch some feature of the black 2016 Ford Focus that is unique that ties it to Richard Allen?

How many 2016 black Ford Focuses are registered in Delphi, Indiana area that could possibly be driving around?

If the prosecution does not have the same 2016 black Ford Focus on camera leaving the area at around 4pm, couldn't a smart defense attorney ask the jury to consider that maybe the one seen at 1:26pm could possibly be someone on their way to work or just driving around Delphi, especially when you consider the proximity to the highway?
 
sunshineray said:
Yep, it may be his wife's hair or a pet's hair. The fibers could be big also, if they aren't too common. It amazes me that some think the P's evidence is thin because they haven't talked about it, because it's not been made public. It's like some don't realize there's a gag order in place. Probably because of all the D's leaks. JMO
Click to expand...
I think that is a good point. Maybe they do have animal hair fibers that tie him to the murders?

But the question is do they really have this strong evidence against Richard Allen or not? In my opinion, I think that is what everyone is waiting to see.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 105 more.
Total: 2,123 (members: 106, guests: 2,017)

Online statistics

Members online
106
Guests online
2,017
Total visitors
2,123
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
600,910
Messages
18,115,478
Members
230,991
Latest member
DeeKay
Back
Top