Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #186

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
OK, let us not diagnose the man. Let us rely on the official information provided by the ISP in the PC in 2019, that is what we all went by until the arrest was made. Any similarity? No. I am trying to reconcile ISP's PC with whom they arrested. Since there is zero correlation, i am trying to find something that would match. The only similarity between the BG and RA that i can find is unusual gait. Remove it - what stays?

It seems you've answered your own question here.

BTW, the 2-second highly manipulated background enlarged few pixels from an I phone 6 that LE used to encourage tips cannot be admitted as evidence at trial (of course, original video clip(s) certainly could be presented).

As for few blurred pixels of a winter-clothed figure sent for study to experts/labs for medical diagnosis, gait, a physical ID, a jacket brand, or an ID on what's in the pockets - well science doesn't go there and neither will this trial.

The PC in 2019 was a PR tool to encourage the community to continue to submit tips and keep the faith. (In retrospect, that makes sense given that Command had "lost" at least 7 weeks of taped interviews resulting from the investigation's original crush of tips in those earliest weeks.)

No worries though. Holeman said he knows RA "did it" and he's "going to prove it" -- just a few moments b/4 Holeman took suspect RA into custody and then into solitary in prison for ... what's now been ... about 20 months. (Holeman's statement in the final taped LE custodial interrogation transcript ... a tape the D requests be suppressed, given no one bothered to re-Miranda RA.)

We just have to be patient.

JMHO
 
That’s because RA is BG so of course he is the spitting image. Obviously the image is grainy as all get out but there are tells now we know who the guilty man is that it’s him.

Least not forgetting the fact he has placed himself out on the bridge dressed similarly as BG and has confessed loads that’s he is guilty.

Mooooooo
Much before the arrest my bf say the guy in the bridge looked a short guy and overweight, a typical american midwest guy (no offense). Yesterday we are talking about the case and he says "but the video looks like really RA. It's impossible for his wife right now don't know it is him". I told him that also can be use for the D like "so if is so obvious how people didn't recognize him before" and he said the video have bad quality and isn't enough to identifiy him for people who didn't know him well but now seeing RA, really looks like him on the bridge in his opinion. He never said that about the other POIS.

I think it is RA and looks like him, especially the body frame. The face it is impossible to see.
 
The face it is impossible to see.
.... and if this unrecognizable face should be RA, then I have to believe it, it seems. One half of the face is covered and one half is in the shadow - good luck with identifying this face. When we take the sketch #2= YBG for it to complete, what we aren't able to recognize, then it makes little sense, that it should be RA. When we think of the description of YBG (fluffy hair reddish-brown, 18-40, looking younger), we could have doubts even more. Now, I'm curiously awaiting the evidence.
After me the deluge. I have to trust LE.
 
Excellent post @steeltowngirl, this D has insinuated, speculated and hypothesized everything, and I do mean everything, except proof of why RA is INNOCENT. Technically the Defense doesn't have to say a peep, it's the State's job to prove RA guilty BARD.

The D can't argue what they don't have...a legitimate alibi proving that RA was anywhere else except on the Monan High Bridge on Feb 13, 2017 during the time that Abby & Libby were brutally murdered after being video taped by Libby, but the State can and will IMO show exactly that and more.

#Justice4Abby&LibbyAlways

JMO

jmo
I do think that this will be a major factor - and we don’t know what evidence exists. As you say, where was RA and RAs phone after 1:30 pm? And after 2:15pm? If there is evidence or no evidence (phone turned off) of RAs alibi it will be huge. As it stands I think there may still be some doubt but this could nail it.
And, as far as I know the D still haven’t been able to break alibis and put the alternates at the trails. And, even if they were there, RA could still be bridge guy if they can’t get him off the trails just after 1:30pm.
Edited to MOO
 
Last edited:
One of the great mysteries to me in this case was how many times the Defense had actually visited RA in Westville, I guessed on one hand or less. To my surprise while perusing the Safekeeping Hearing Court document 6/15/23 linked below (page 37) it says four, one time in December and 3 times in May (by Rozzi & Intern). Baldwin joined them at least once.

I find it ironic that they saw him once in Dec and he was fine, engaged, doing okay, affable and courteous Rick. After his confessions on April 3rd to Wife and Mom, R&B made their Motion to Transfer on April 4th, they suddenly visited RA 3 times in May.

One for the famous photo op of RA just coming back from Rec time with his red jumpsuit unbuttoned and the specific undershirt that he always wore to rec time showing, which was not standard per the Warden's statement. RA had clean underclothes in his cell but denied the opportunity allowed by the guard to go and change. Another convenient happenstance IMO. Page 52 of Part 2 linked below.

He was being transported through the prison during this time so of course he is cuffed. Does that shine the photo op picture in a little different light now?

Rozzi and Baldwin in the Hearing below Part 2 page 78 agreed to a 3 week trial which is how they ended up on Jan 8-26th 2024 originally. They wasted precious time on that ridiculous FM and allowed all of the subsequent ripping contests with the Judge to totally derail their case and they continue to do so today.

I see an Mental Incompetency Hearing Motion coming soon from the D.

6.15.23 Safekeeping - Google Drive
6.15.23 Safekeeping - Google Drive

JMO
 
I do think that this will be a major factor - and we don’t know what evidence exists. As you say, where was RA and RAs phone after 1:30 pm? And after 2:15pm? If there is evidence or no evidence (phone turned off) of RAs alibi it will be huge. As it stands I think there may still be some doubt but this could nail it.
And, as far as I know the D still haven’t been able to break alibis and put the alternates at the trails. And, even if they were there, RA could still be bridge guy if they can’t get him off the trails just after 1:30pm.
Edited to MOO

Did he actually have the same phone he had 7 years before his arrest?

or was that in the pile of phones found at his house that I read about... but that might be a different case I was following.
 
Did he actually have the same phone he had 7 years before his arrest?

or was that in the pile of phones found at his house that I read about... but that might be a different case I was following.
I've always guessed he either didn't have his real phone on him and/or used a burner, which is in no way the phone he gave to Dulin during their meetup at the corner store.

They found quite a few phones during the search warrant he seemed to collect them, maybe the one RA gave LE didn't show up in the CAST info., but one they found in his home did.

JMO
 
In the geofencing data done by the FBI, wasn’t it shown that there were 3 phones at the crime scene (within 60 yards) during the time of the crime and they deduced none belonged to RA?

IMO IIRC Burner phones will show up on geofencing and we learned in other cases, competent LE can track the purchase of burner phones and identify who bought them.

IIRC IMO The geofencing and the geofence expert are asked to be excluded in Ps motion in limine because IMO it shows RA not at the crime scene but 3 other people were, supporting a third party culprit and more than one assailant theory. MOO

(8 onwards)
 
Did he actually have the same phone he had 7 years before his arrest?

or was that in the pile of phones found at his house that I read about... but that might be a different case I was following.
We don’t know but as girlhasnoname says above, he likely had a daily phone that he used regularly like most people. I think that phone can give us good data for the 13 Feb v other days in terms of usage and carrying it. If he left that one home or turned off and took a burner on that day that is interesting too. Ideally for RA his usual phone will be on trails until 1:30pm ish then track home or somewhere else entirely. Or he will have some other alibi.
 
Last edited:
In the geofencing data done by the FBI, wasn’t it shown that there were 3 phones at the crime scene (within 60 yards) during the time of the crime and they deduced none belonged to RA?

IMO IIRC Burner phones will show up on geofencing and we learned in other cases, competent LE can track the purchase of burner phones and identify who bought them.

IIRC IMO The geofencing and the geofence expert are asked to be excluded in Ps motion in limine because IMO it shows RA not at the crime scene but 3 other people were, supporting a third party culprit and more than one assailant theory. MOO

(8 onwards)

The State responded to the defense’s motion concerning geofencing and demonstrated in some detail how geofencing works and how the data is read and that the defense did not understand it and had misinterpreted it entirely.

 
I do think that this will be a major factor - and we don’t know what evidence exists. As you say, where was RA and RAs phone after 1:30 pm? And after 2:15pm? If there is evidence or no evidence (phone turned off) of RAs alibi it will be huge. As it stands I think there may still be some doubt but this could nail it.
And, as far as I know the D still haven’t been able to break alibis and put the alternates at the trails. And, even if they were there, RA could still be bridge guy if they can’t get him off the trails just after 1:30pm.
Edited to MOO
We don’t know but as girlhasnoname says above, he likely had a daily phone that he used regularly like most people. I think that phone can give us good data for the 13 Feb v other days in terms of usage and carrying it. If he left that one home or turned off and took a burner on that day that is interesting too. Ideally for RA his usual phone will be on trails until 1:30pm ish then track home or somewhere else entirely. Or he will have some other alibi.

IMO, we DO know that RA digital and DNA evidence tying RA to the crime does NOT exist - per Ligget and Holeman depositions as described in the first FM. Were such evidence available, things would be more straightforward. The confirmation that inculpatory evidence from RA's phone data does not exist still leaves room for exculpatory evidence to exist on RA's phone data. (Neither side has addressed RA's phone data as exculpatory. Yet.)

So far, from information available to the public ... at this time:

This is a circumstantial case with charges brought via a proposed LE timeline built around a number of Monon high bridge trail witnesses reports, RA's self-report to the Conservation Officer (time stamps missing), information from Libby's phone, autopsies, forensics and other info from the crime scene including a recovered bullet casing that does not exclude RA's gun, and certain relevant items from RA's car/property search. Later, RA's solitary "safekeeping", as filings indicate, resulted in a number of RA statements against his interest - details unknown yet.

The State's case relies upon the impeachability of each factor in this circumstantial case and the admissibility and/or plausibility of the statements against interest. And, the state may more fact witnesses or expert testimony than has yet been disclosed.

The Defense have not disclosed RA's alibi(s) - digital or otherwise - if any, and - the last I looked - they were still sorting through and getting expert input on what they believe to be exculpatory evidence (digital and gps) not earlier shared by the State. The FM gives us hints that the Defense intends to dismantle the State's circumstantial case, timeline, bullet casing, witness inconsistencies, the State's lines of investigation in general, and expose coercion of RA's statements against interest. And will there be digital or GPS or 3rd party(s) evidence that rises to level of exculpatory as the Defense regularly asserts?

The Defense's case relies upon the ability to prove RA's actual timeline does not match the State's. And prove that the State and the digital/GPS evidence disagree, and that State evidence/witness testimony are inconsistent with the State's timeline, that RA does not match the profile for this crime. And/or that other more plausible persons (of interest) cannot be ruled out based on existing facts.

If ever this case gets to trial, I expect to be surprised by the many truths and facts still yet unknown that either party is holding back for trial.

Of course, I might have missed something above. And for sure, I'm inclined to have zero interest in speculative stuff. For me, if it's not on the record, it's irrelevant.

JMHO
 
Last edited:
The State responded to the defense’s motion concerning geofencing and demonstrated in some detail how geofencing works and how the data is read and that the defense did not understand it and had misinterpreted it entirely.

I read that and was confused because the geofencing information came from the FBI. Im obviously no expert but if this information will be incorrect by thousands of miles, then how could it ever be used as a investigation tool to begin with ? How was it trusted in so many other cases? The response doesnt make sense to me.

I’ll have to do my own research (I will dive into that rabbit hole now lol) and hear from the FBI agent who is the actual expert in geofencing themselves on the accuracy of the information, not the lawyer trying to throw out the evidence that destroys his case (which is expected, no fault to NM, it’s his job).
 
The State responded to the defense’s motion concerning geofencing and demonstrated in some detail how geofencing works and how the data is read and that the defense did not understand it and had misinterpreted it entirely.

No harm in letting actual experts testify about it. I’d trust them over Baldwin’s, Rozzi’s, and McCleland’s interpretations any day of the week. Of course NM is going to say it’s a nothing burger. Let’s see if experts agree.

IMOMOO
 
I read that and was confused because the geofencing information came from the FBI. Im obviously no expert but if this information will be incorrect by thousands of miles, then how could it ever be used as a investigation tool to begin with ? How was it trusted in so many other cases? The response doesnt make sense to me.

I’ll have to do my own research (I will dive into that rabbit hole now lol) and hear from the FBI agent who is the actual expert in geofencing themselves on the accuracy of the information, not the lawyer trying to throw out the evidence that destroys his case (which is expected, no fault to NM, it’s his job).

Any way you look at it, the defense had it wrong.
The data does not support what they were trying to spin.
 
I would not turn to ISP to confirm or disprove anything. Neither can his doctors who are bound by HIPAA laws. However, wasn't his presence around the bridge at that time self-explained by RA as attending some kind of a meeting? I guess the person who provided the greatest wealth of information about the man was a local barman, no?
Only thing I've heard from RA, via LE, was he said he was watching his stock ticker on the trail and then watching fish while on the bridge that day. He never said, that we know from LE that I'm aware of, anything about attending a meeting as a reason he was around the bridge that day.
 
I read that and was confused because the geofencing information came from the FBI. Im obviously no expert but if this information will be incorrect by thousands of miles, then how could it ever be used as a investigation tool to begin with ? How was it trusted in so many other cases? The response doesnt make sense to me.

I’ll have to do my own research (I will dive into that rabbit hole now lol) and hear from the FBI agent who is the actual expert in geofencing themselves on the accuracy of the information, not the lawyer trying to throw out the evidence that destroys his case (which is expected, no fault to NM, it’s his job).


Seems like there'd be plenty of relevant questions - for experts:
Do the geofence data and Libby's phone ping records support the State's timeline? Or not?
Is the geofence data informative as to RA's phone vs. the State's timeline?
Is the geofence data informative as to other phones?
Identify the others?
Compare geofence data to the State's Timeline.
Compare geofence data to Libby's phone.
Compare geofence data to RA's phone.
Discuss Accuracy and Reliability? What info can be known/not known from this data?

And even relevant question - for LE Investigation Team's witnesses:
If geofence information was ordered by the investigation, explain who, why and how.
How and when was the geofence data analyzed and how did that information inform the investigate into parties that were proven to be in the vicinity of the crime scene during the murder timeline.
Who in the investigation received the geofence report and when? How was it used? How did it support the investigation?
Who's phones were confirmed as being in close vicinity of the crime scene by the geofence study?
Was follow-up questioning conducted with each geofencing tracked phone's owner?
Is the geofence information re: others inculpatory? Why/why not?
Is the geofence information re: RA inculpatory or exculpatory? Why/why not?
If geofence information was found irrelevant, explain why?
Did the investigation into RA involve eliminating or matching geofence data evidence to RA's phone and the State's timeline for RA?
Why was all geofence information not delivered to the Defense with other discovery materials?
 
Seems like there'd be plenty of relevant questions - for experts:
Do the geofence data and Libby's phone ping records support the State's timeline? Or not?
Is the geofence data informative as to RA's phone vs. the State's timeline?
Is the geofence data informative as to other phones?
Identify the others?
Compare geofence data to the State's Timeline.
Compare geofence data to Libby's phone.
Compare geofence data to RA's phone.
Discuss Accuracy and Reliability? What info can be known/not known from this data?

And even relevant question - for LE Investigation Team's witnesses:
If geofence information was ordered by the investigation, explain who, why and how.
How and when was the geofence data analyzed and how did that information inform the investigate into parties that were proven to be in the vicinity of the crime scene during the murder timeline.
Who in the investigation received the geofence report and when? How was it used? How did it support the investigation?
Who's phones were confirmed as being in close vicinity of the crime scene by the geofence study?
Was follow-up questioning conducted with each geofencing tracked phone's owner?
Is the geofence information re: others inculpatory? Why/why not?
Is the geofence information re: RA inculpatory or exculpatory? Why/why not?
If geofence information was found irrelevant, explain why?
Did the investigation into RA involve eliminating or matching geofence data evidence to RA's phone and the State's timeline for RA?
Why was all geofence information not delivered to the Defense with other discovery materials?

Wouldn’t that be wonderful! Great questions for experts to answer, under oath and cross examined. Perfect for a trial!
Not for a motion.
The defense will not let us have a trial.
 
I read that and was confused because the geofencing information came from the FBI. Im obviously no expert but if this information will be incorrect by thousands of miles, then how could it ever be used as a investigation tool to begin with ?
I think you may have missed the point of their explanation. The Prosecutor did not say that 'ALL' of this information will be incorrect by thousands of miles, but it is ONLY the cell sites or timing advance data that is not pinpoint accurate.

The data from GPS and from WiFi Triangulation is very precise in terms of geo-location.
How was it trusted in so many other cases? The response doesnt make sense to me.
It is trusted only when experienced tech experts are doing the interpretations. The defense team tried to interpret this raw data and made some huge errors. The prosecution clarified the issue.
I’ll have to do my own research (I will dive into that rabbit hole now lol) and hear from the FBI agent who is the actual expert in geofencing themselves on the accuracy of the information, not the lawyer trying to throw out the evidence that destroys his case (which is expected, no fault to NM, it’s his job).
NM was not trying to throw out any 'evidence' ---he was trying to clarify erroneous interpretations of the raw data, made by the defense attorneys. IMO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
200
Guests online
1,656
Total visitors
1,856

Forum statistics

Threads
598,957
Messages
18,088,612
Members
230,770
Latest member
stellrcellr
Back
Top