Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #187

[girlhasnoname]

Can't wait to hear from that witness who saw RA, muddy and bloody looking like he'd been in a fight.

Yes, she seems to be a solid witness and passed RA on a less traveled road. She would have gotten a good look at him IMO.

 

[Willow Knight]

The hearing scheduled for this month. This is to give reasons why 3rd party persons can be mentioned in court at the trial? What we, here, will probably end up with is people watching live, then giving the public their notes at break time?

I can't find the list I saved with the names the prosecutor listed as not to be mentioned unless there is relevance to the crime. Anyone?

Hope everyone had a nice 4th of July (and the noise didn't frighten too many dogs).

 

[SleutherGirl]

I was thinking maybe Abby was killed by blunt force trauma, so her heart had stopped before her throat was cut. I don't know how else she'd wind up with no blood on her body or clothes with such a vicious wound. Only other way is she was washed or wiped off. May be why Libby's shirt was found in the water? I don't know, just conjecture. Very odd Abby was redressed in Libby's clothes though.

Could they have died in the nude? Has that been disproven?

 

[steeltowngirl]

The hearing scheduled for this month. This is to give reasons why 3rd party persons can be mentioned in court at the trial? What we, here, will probably end up with is people watching live, then giving the public their notes at break time?

I can't find the list I saved with the names the prosecutor listed as not to be mentioned unless there is relevance to the crime. Anyone?

Hope everyone had a nice 4th of July (and the noise didn't frighten too many dogs).

The prosecution also requested information and arguments about certain individuals be restricted, including Brad Holder, Patrick Westfall, Johnny Messer, Elvis Fields, Ned Smith, and Rod Abrams. Those individuals were included in many defense theories involving Odinism.

The list also includes Kegan Kline and his father, Jerry Kline. As well as the owner of the property where the girls were found murdered, Ron Logan.

Delphi murders: Prosecution seeking restrictions on defense's case

Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland, the prosecutor in the Delphi murders case have asked the court to restrict the defense team from mentioning key elements in their argument to the jury.

www.wishtv.com

 

[sunshineray]

Could they have died in the nude? Has that been disproven?

That is certainly looking how Libby died, very possible Abby too and RA just redressed her in Libby's larger sized clothes?

 

[WildHuncher]

That is certainly looking how Libby died, very possible Abby too and RA just redressed her in Libby's larger sized clothes?

Once we knew years ago that some lone male had crossed a rickety bridge to murder two 8th grade girls nothing much else would make sense.

 

[Willow Knight]

Not sure I'm remembering this correctly. Was it only the Franks Motion that noted lack of blood at the crime scene? It's hard to accept that when one believes the girls were murdered at the same location they were discovered. If I'm remembering correctly, the Franks also stated a rune like symbol was marked on a tree with one victims blood.

Those that feel this could have been a lone killer, is there anything that sticks out to make you feel this way? I also can accept there was one actor at the crime scene. However, I feel the killer was involved in CSAM and had a connection to the Anthony.Shots account. I guess it's the WHY, why did this happen, why were these two girls murdered.

Justice for Libby and Abby.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Not sure I'm remembering this correctly. Was it only the Franks Motion that noted lack of blood at the crime scene? It's hard to accept that when one believes the girls were murdered at the same location they were discovered. If I'm remembering correctly, the Franks also stated a rune like symbol was marked on a tree with one victims blood.

Those that feel this could have been a lone killer, is there anything that sticks out to make you feel this way? I also can accept there was one actor at the crime scene. However, I feel the killer was involved in CSAM and had a connection to the Anthony.Shots account. I guess it's the WHY, why did this happen, why were these two girls murdered.

Justice for Libby and Abby.

For me, like a lot of folks, it’s hard to ignore all the KAK stuff and think it’s not relevant somehow.
That being said, the fact that no one else has been arrested and RA hasn’t named any names himself makes me think RA is the one and only.
I think it’s absolutely possible that one person could have done this crime. Certainly it would’ve been easier with more people, but one person alone could’ve have.
The fact that NMcL asked that the defense not be allowed to bring up KAK, among others, means to me the prosecution doesn’t think KAK is involved and doesn’t want the defense trying to confuse the jury with it.
Now….if CSAM and a_shots and KAK end up being a big deal at trial….I wouldn’t be surprised with that either.

 

[Willow Knight]

For me, like a lot of folks, it’s hard to ignore all the KAK stuff and think it’s not relevant somehow.
That being said, the fact that no one else has been arrested and RA hasn’t named any names himself makes me think RA is the one and only.
I think it’s absolutely possible that one person could have done this crime. Certainly it would’ve been easier with more people, but one person alone could’ve have.
The fact that NMcL asked that the defense not be allowed to bring up KAK, among others, means to me the prosecution doesn’t think KAK is involved and doesn’t want the defense trying to confuse the jury with it.
Now….if CSAM and a_shots and KAK end up being a big deal at trial….I wouldn’t be surprised with that either.

Exactly the same for me. It's hard to let go of the KAK connection. Very hard. Then I wonder if prosecutor demanding a connection, should these name be brought up. is their way of forcing the defense to admit to CSAM. I don't know.

 

[Andieinsyd]

Exactly the same for me. It's hard to let go of the KAK connection. Very hard. Then I wonder if prosecutor demanding a connection, should these name be brought up. is their way of forcing the defense to admit to CSAM. I don't know.

Think this is a good point, and perhaps the reason D are not using anthony_shots as SODDI.
I personally have a couple of questions on RA acting alone; 1. at the presser for RA arrest, both DC and NML spoke of other actors (who presumably worked with RA in committing the crime) seems to be a pretty big signal that they did entertain this - what do they have? 2. BG was on the bridge as seen by BB but conveniently was off the bridge when A &L go there, allowing them access to bridge - how did he know to do this if he couldn’t see them? 3. As you say, it’s difficult to put aside the link to anthony_shots and CSAM network, and lack of action there could be due to lack of evidence rather than no connection.

However

RA lived close by and knew the trails/bridge so could have been opportunistic. It’s possible that he saw BB and saw her as a possible victim (force off trails down to kill site)so followed her, then saw A&B and changed strategy. I personally think this is the most likely scenario.

I really have also tried to be open to the BH,PW,EF theory as per Click (and have gone down the Facebook image rabbit holes and can see various linkages and motives between people) but still just can’t see real evidence that links them to the crime itself.

MOO

 

[WildHuncher]

I can’t offhand think of an instance in which the defense has mentioned KAK or the A Shots personna at all. Hardly a peep. This seems a bit odd, given that this line of inquiry had legs almost right up to the time of RA’s arrest. It looked, so far as the public could tell, promising. No, the D loves the Odinist angle, an old dry well of investigation.

My guess is there are links to the A Shots ring in the case. The D is in no hurry to reveal discovery that actually incriminates their client.

MOO

 

[Andieinsyd]

Could they have died in the nude? Has that been disproven?

As far as I know we haven’t seen evidence either way. The D do suggest this is the case and set out their theory in the Franks memorandum. They believe that Abby was re-dressed by the murderers after death and suggest that the blood evidence supports this.
However possible alternative is that Abby re-dressed (in Libby’s clothes) herself before she was killed, possibly as ordered by murderer/s, maybe she thought she would be released? God that so horrible to think about. Guess we will see the State’s theory at some point but if they are going with lone wolf, might go with something like this (has been discussed here)
MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Not sure I'm remembering this correctly. Was it only the Franks Motion that noted lack of blood at the crime scene? It's hard to accept that when one believes the girls were murdered at the same location they were discovered. If I'm remembering correctly, the Franks also stated a rune like symbol was marked on a tree with one victims blood.

Those that feel this could have been a lone killer, is there anything that sticks out to make you feel this way? I also can accept there was one actor at the crime scene. However, I feel the killer was involved in CSAM and had a connection to the Anthony.Shots account. I guess it's the WHY, why did this happen, why were these two girls murdered.

Justice for Libby and Abby.

It has been stated by LE that it was a bloody CS in a few places. One attached here:

<snipped>

“A large amount of blood was lost by the victims at the crime scene,” an agent wrote in the warrant. “Because of the nature of the victim’s wounds, it is nearly certain the perpetrator of the crime would have gotten blood on his person/clothing.”

Blood, Sex Staging, Fiber Evidence: Chilling New Details in Murder of Two Delphi Little Girls

 

[Cyber sleuth]

As far as I know we haven’t seen evidence either way. The D do suggest this is the case and set out their theory in the Franks memorandum. They believe that Abby was re-dressed by the murderers after death and suggest that the blood evidence supports this.
However possible alternative is that Abby re-dressed (in Libby’s clothes) herself before she was killed, possibly as ordered by murderer/s, maybe she thought she would be released? God that so horrible to think about. Guess we will see the State’s theory at some point but if they are going with lone wolf, might go with something like this (has been discussed here)
MOO

My theory has been that Abby was killed first and Libby redressed her or assisted in redressing her.

it breaks my heart to think the terror these girls experience. From the moment the gun was pulled, to the moment they were isolated, then forced to remove their clothing, then ultimately a knife produced. Hope was replaced with fear and knowledge with each passing second.

I believe this was the work of one demented man. A little, nothing man that hungered for that power.
My theory is at some point after that horrific day, that little man just couldn’t help himself and needed to brag to other men with similar, evil thoughts what he had done. He had planned and executed the abduction, assault and murder of 2 young victims- he was a legend among swine. I believe this electronic transaction is ultimately what lead to his capture.
All my opinion.

 

[sunshineray]

Exactly the same for me. It's hard to let go of the KAK connection. Very hard. Then I wonder if prosecutor demanding a connection, should these name be brought up. is their way of forcing the defense to admit to CSAM. I don't know.

The thing that gets me is why would KAK, via anthony_shots account, answered Libby's friend telling him what happened to her with, (paraphrasing) omg I was suppose to meet up with her that day but she never showed?

WHY even say that, making a connection to the day and the victim? Is KAK really that stupid to insert himself or was it because he thought Libby might have told her friend she had set up a meet with anthony_shots?

Either way there's that connection between Libby and KAK, who has admitted to LE he was catfishing with anthony_shots account...it was his account. He even has the google DNA searches, the post dated SM and the Delphi Marathon Gas Station directions search.

I'm perplexed as to why RA's defense attorneys have never brought up KAK and have gone instead with the fantastical Odin men. Must be a very good reason why the D doesn't want to bring KAK into it and why KAK got transferred almost immediately after RA showed up at Wabash Correctional.
AJMO

 

[Inthedetails]

The thing that gets me is why would KAK, via anthony_shots account, answered Libby's friend telling him what happened to her with, (paraphrasing) omg I was suppose to meet up with her that day but she never showed?

WHY even say that, making a connection to the day and the victim? Is KAK really that stupid to insert himself or was it because he thought Libby might have told her friend she had set up a meet with anthony_shots?

Either way there's that connection between Libby and KAK, who has admitted to LE he was catfishing with anthony_shots account...it was his account. He even has the google DNA searches, the post dated SM and the Delphi Marathon Gas Station directions search.

I'm perplexed as to why RA's defense attorneys have never brought up KAK and have gone instead with the fantastical Odin men. Must be a very good reason why the D doesn't want to bring KAK into it and why KAK got transferred almost immediately after RA showed up at Wabash Correctional.
AJMO

Oftentimes, by the time a case gets to trial, we know all the details. I often don't even watch trials, losing interest after the perp is caught and we understand what happened.

This is a case, however, so much remains unknown, and what we do know doesn't really fit together into a complete narrative.

Will we actually find out what happened that day? Will it make sense?

jmo

 

[justtrish]

Yes, she seems to be a solid witness and passed RA on a less traveled road. She would have gotten a good look at him IMO.

I feel for her! She likely had no idea this was what it was when she saw the odd man walking along who appeared to be muddy/bloody. I have lived in an area like Delphi.. small town, hunters and outdoorsman/women everywhere. I try to imagine me driving along and just seeing a man like this and I do feel I'd assume he had been hunting or maybe even he was in a fight and now had to walk home/walk somewhere and I'd likely shake my head and carry on. Then at some point she hears about missing girls and then murdered girls. I am sure the weight of what she saw then hit her like the weight of a ton of brinks. I think I'd be searching back in my brain trying hard to recall any little detail I didn't think was significant. I mean how can you even know that this was a murderer or 2 girls walking down the street when you passed by and had seconds to see him/observe him.

I can’t offhand think of an instance in which the defense has mentioned KAK or the A Shots personna at all. Hardly a peep. This seems a bit odd, given that this line of inquiry had legs almost right up to the time of RA’s arrest. It looked, so far as the public could tell, promising. No, the D loves the Odinist angle, an old dry well of investigation.

My guess is there are links to the A Shots ring in the case. The D is in no hurry to reveal discovery that actually incriminates their client.

MOO

Oh I like this theory! You are right, the D has ran with so many other angles and tried to pull other things into this case and then on the KAK front, silence. I would think KAK would be a great person to try to pin this on and if he was in any small way involved, why not blast him in the memos and theories they have pushed out? Could it be that they know their client had contact with KAK at some point?

 

[justtrish]

The thing that gets me is why would KAK, via anthony_shots account, answered Libby's friend telling him what happened to her with, (paraphrasing) omg I was suppose to meet up with her that day but she never showed?

WHY even say that, making a connection to the day and the victim? Is KAK really that stupid to insert himself or was it because he thought Libby might have told her friend she had set up a meet with anthony_shots?

Either way there's that connection between Libby and KAK, who has admitted to LE he was catfishing with anthony_shots account...it was his account. He even has the google DNA searches, the post dated SM and the Delphi Marathon Gas Station directions search.

I'm perplexed as to why RA's defense attorneys have never brought up KAK and have gone instead with the fantastical Odin men. Must be a very good reason why the D doesn't want to bring KAK into it and why KAK got transferred almost immediately after RA showed up at Wabash Correctional.
AJMO

Did KAK ever reveal WHERE he was to meet up with Libby that day and when? I am curious if that is true. Where they going to meet later at the gas station maybe? Is that why he googled directions? Did he go there and she wasn't there or did he just not go at all? Who else might have known that he was going to meet up with someone at that location?

 

[Megnut]

My theory has been that Abby was killed first and Libby redressed her or assisted in redressing her.

it breaks my heart to think the terror these girls experience. From the moment the gun was pulled, to the moment they were isolated, then forced to remove their clothing, then ultimately a knife produced. Hope was replaced with fear and knowledge with each passing second.

I believe this was the work of one demented man. A little, nothing man that hungered for that power.
My theory is at some point after that horrific day, that little man just couldn’t help himself and needed to brag to other men with similar, evil thoughts what he had done. He had planned and executed the abduction, assault and murder of 2 young victims- he was a legend among swine. I believe this electronic transaction is ultimately what lead to his capture.
All my opinion.

I know it's only in the movies, but they always say that, if the perpetrator takes off his mask, you aren't getting out alive.

BG had no mask ... which didn't bode well to begin with... but as I read the post above, it occurred to me that there is a very obvious and powerful way to be one person controlling two victims. Lie to them. Tell them that, if they cooperate, he won't kill them. Undress, dress. Don't scream. March. Pose. Not all SA involves contact, he may have been a voyeur-- scares me to think what he might have filmed/recorded. He was with them for a very long time.... terror is real. He could have forced them to do whatever he wanted with the (false, insidious) promise they could live, even more cruel if he put the fate of each girl on the shoulders of the other.

They had no way if knowing what he wanted from them and what he ultimately did to them.

But HE knew what he wanted. What he wanted from them. And, whatever it was, once he got it, he killed them.

So brutal. And just minutes earlier, within the hour, they were very much alive, chatting happily about the things young teenage girls chat about.

If only the planks could have given out, plunging him first -- before he ever reached them -- into river below.

 

[Inthedetails]

I know it's only in the movies, but they always say that, if the perpetrator takes off his mask, you aren't getting out alive.

BG had no mask ... which didn't bode well to begin with... but as I read the post above, it occurred to me that there is a very obvious and powerful way to be one person controlling two victims. Lie to them. Tell them that, if they cooperate, he won't kill them. Undress, dress. Don't scream. March. Pose. Not all SA involves contact, he may have been a voyeur-- scares me to think what he might have filmed/recorded. He was with them for a very long time.... terror is real. He could have forced them to do whatever he wanted with the (false, insidious) promise they could live, even more cruel if he put the fate of each girl on the shoulders of the other.

They had no way if knowing what he wanted from them and what he ultimately did to them.

But HE knew what he wanted. What he wanted from them. And, whatever it was, once he got it, he killed them.

So brutal. And just minutes earlier, within the hour, they were very much alive, chatting happily about the things young teenage girls chat about.

If only the planks could have given out, plunging him first -- before he ever reached them -- into river below.

Yes, if only the planks had given out.

For a long I have thought the motive was to get images. I still think that, though, of course, it is speculation.

jmo