Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #187

[mrjitty]

I will respectfully point out that the defense makes zero citations during the section where they are talking about the crime scene and clothing. It’s wholly unclear where they got this information and if it’s based entirely on photos, or if they also used depositions or reports or other documents to gain this knowledge.

The lack of citations when they carefully cite most other things is pretty telling to me that they might be stretching the truth a bit.

JMO

Right.

My opinion is they just drop references to the conspiracy theories that swirled around this case - especially the idea that the girls were killed elsewhere and brought back. As they have no evidence to support this idea, they engage in wild speculation.

This is IMO, the work the 'consultant' MW was doing on the case.

 

[MiniMoo]

Is anyone going to be attending the trial or is that going to be restricted/under wraps?

 

[Salah11]

I’m probably barking up the wrong tree, and I admit that. But my working theory is that Libby was nude because he had issues with his own daughter, and this was to show control over her when he didn’t have control over his daughter at home.

They look strikingly similar and I just can’t get past that and think it played a part in what went down.

Moo

 

[girlhasnoname]

And Tony Liggett has been accused of lying to obtain the PCA.

IMO LE had more than enough to warrant the PCA and the SW. I believe both are going to hold up strongly in any review and RA's confessions have sunk the D's battleship.

Let's go, get this to trial and let a jury decide RA's fate. We don't even know the majority of the State's case yet and RA will be found guilty IMO.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

If he is guilty, I wonder if he did know they were coming and if so, how.

I don't know what's worse--it being a crime of opportunity or a crime that was pre-planned.

I wonder about that too, I think RA connected with Libby somehow on SM. Either catfishing her on his own or some connection to KAK and the major CSAM ring that was taking place at that time. IDK - Libby seems more targeted to me in all of this than Abby.

Preplanning the murder and torture seems 100x more evil than just running across them and deciding to do it. I also believe it was preplanned, RA was there at the exact time, came prepared with basically a kill kit. The thought that RA would have done this because they 'snickered' or said something about him is just unrealistic IMO.

RA wasn't just out for an afternoon stroll and suddenly snapped. He was ready and prepared and I think it's something he'd been fantasizing about for some time. We will know more when the State gets to present it''s evidence.

#Justice4Abby&LibbyAlways

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

This is who this case is about. Justice for Abby & Libby, let's please don't forget them. 2 BFF's that went out for a walk on a sunny February afternoon and lost their lives to a vicious predator.


Photo by: wdrb

IMO

 

[Salah11]

This is who this case is about. Justice for Abby & Libby, let's please don't forget them. 2 BFF's that went out for a walk on a sunny February afternoon and lost their lives to a vicious predator.

View attachment 516481
Photo by: wdrb

IMO

it’s hard to fathom why anybody would want to harm two innocent kids on a afternoon walk.

 

[mrjitty]

IMO LE had more than enough to warrant the PCA and the SW. I believe both are going to hold up strongly in any review and RA's confessions have sunk the D's battleship.

Let's go, get this to trial and let a jury decide RA's fate. We don't even know the majority of the State's case yet and RA will be found guilty IMO.

JMO

The Judge ruled specifically on this question already (my emphasis). So as far as the law is concerned, TL did not lie in securing the search warrant.

“The Court finds the Affidavit submitted in support of the issuance of the search warrant contained information that a reasonable belief existed that evidence of the murders would be found in the defendant’s home and vehicles. The Court does not find that the Affidavit submitted false statements or that the Affiant omitted statements with reckless disregard, nor does the Court find that the Affiant intended to mislead the Judge by failing to present information. As the Court has found the Affidavit for issuance of the search warrant was valid, the search itself was reasonable and legal under Indiana law and Fourth Amendment case law.”

Judge in Delphi murders case hands down multiple rulings

The special judge in the Delphi double murders case handed down several rulings Monday. Judge Francis Gull denied Richard Allen's motions.

www.wishtv.com

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

I will respectfully point out that the defense makes zero citations during the section where they are talking about the crime scene and clothing. It’s wholly unclear where they got this information and if it’s based entirely on photos, or if they also used depositions or reports or other documents to gain this knowledge.

The lack of citations when they carefully cite most other things is pretty telling to me that they might be stretching the truth a bit.

JMO

I'd even go further.

When they wanted to mislead, they omitted some the direct quotes and cross referenced so it can't be checked by the public. This is IMO what they did with the TL allegations of lying in the Franks.

The Court does not find that the Affidavit submitted false statements or that the Affiant omitted statements with reckless disregard, nor does the Court find that the Affiant intended to mislead the Judge by failing to present information.

I suspect we'll find the deception is actually in those footnotes because they selectively quoted. We can see the strategy is effective, because people still act like TL did lie, even though the Court held the opposite.

MOO

Judge in Delphi murders case hands down multiple rulings

The special judge in the Delphi double murders case handed down several rulings Monday. Judge Francis Gull denied Richard Allen's motions.

www.wishtv.com

 

[sunshineray]

I've taken a vow of silence until the thread is focused on the only person on trial for the murder of these two children. Richard Allen.

“You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din"

 

[TTF14]

How do you reconcile your theory with KG stating she gave them both sweatshirts, and the shirt Libby grabbed from the back seat of her car was a black Delphi swim shirt with gold letters? (GHI 7/16/22 interview, for one source)

Am I correct in understanding that the entire theory here is that 1) a pair of Libby’s jeans mysteriously showed up, a pair of sweatpants mysteriously disappeared, no one officially related to the case has ever brought up this alleged discrepancy before (including the defense that’s literally arguing a cult killed them while not ever mentioning this huge smoking gun!), and 2) the initial clothing description wasn’t just erroneous?

Interesting.

MOO

Do you think that just because the defense hasn't brought it up in pre-trial motions they won't bring it up in the trial?

 

[sunshineray]

A relatively simple explanation is that he intended to re-dress one or both girls to confuse investigators, and simply got clothes wrong in the rush. Took too long dressing one, perhaps realized the clothes were mixed up to some extent and didn’t have time to fix it, so the rest of the scene was hurriedly staged and the rest of the clothes were thrown in the river. Also explains why the phone and round were left… he was starting to panic because his plan was not going according to plan and he needed to leave before he got caught at the crime scene.

JMO

The whole psychology of his actions is fascinating. I wonder if we'll ever know the whole truth behind it all?

I was thinking maybe the jeans getting wet crossing the creek played a part. Abby's were very slim fitting. From experience, putting on wet/damp slim jeans is hard, even on a slim body. Abby being so slim, Libby's jeans would be much easier to get on her. Then he decided to cover Libby with leaves and threw the extra clothes in the creek...minus what he kept.
Just some thoughts

 

[sunshineray]

Sure. But one of them was dressed in clothes neither one of them was wearing when they were dropped off. That’s the point. Where did the clothes come from?

You're stating that as fact when we don't know officially. MO

 

[sunshineray]

Has the defense even made this argument? On the contrary, they accept as fact these were the clothes the girls were wearing that day. They make no mention of clothes that magically appeared, but they do mention the “jackets” everyone was wearing (point 5 in the weird FM narrated scenario) and that the killer merely “[gathered] the discarded clothing from both girls” (point 22). Points 84-87 mention the killer grabbing the remaining clothes that weren’t put on Abby (including Abby’s jeans), and throwing them in the river.

Never in their tedious narrative that they’ve spun do they mention anything about the clothes not matching what the girls were initially wearing. I would think that’s enough of a smoking gun that it would be covered relentlessly in the memo, but… nope. Just steadfast acceptance that those were the clothes the girls wore that day.

JMO

You got that right! The teenage-clothes carrying Odinists certainly would have been mentioned.
IMO

 

[TTF14]

You're stating that as fact when we don't know officially. MO

I'm discussing something in the Franks Memo, in the widely-discussed leaked crime scene photos picturing exactly what the Franks memo said, and content of approved YouTuber Gray Hughes' video (among many others not approved and not posted here). Has LE released it? Nope.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

You got that right! The teenage-clothes carrying Odinists certainly would have been mentioned.
IMO

I absolutely do NOT think RA was carrying extra clothes.

Just wondering where they came from.

IMO MOO

 

[m00c0w]

Do you think that just because the defense hasn't brought it up in pre-trial motions they won't bring it up in the trial?

They have made on-the-record statements confirming the clothing at the scene was the clothing they wore to the scene. It will be extremely hard to walk that back now, even if they actually wanted to. However, you’re the only person I’ve seen concerned about a pair of pants “appearing” and another pair “disappearing” based on one very early description released of the girls.

It is far more likely that the description just got one pair of pants wrong versus this other theory. You assert that it not being “corrected” in over six years means something… the girls were no longer missing. They were found the next day. An accurate description of clothing was no longer relevant to the general public. There was zero rational reason to come out and say “oh, well, actually Libby was wearing jeans and not sweatpants”. I feel like there were far more important issues at hand, at that time.

Again, not even the overzealous defense has stretched nearly this far.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I'm discussing something in the Franks Memo, in the widely-discussed leaked crime scene photos picturing exactly what the Franks memo said, and content of approved YouTuber Gray Hughes' video (among many others not approved and not posted here). Has LE released it? Nope.

IMO MOO

Appropriately at the trial, the State/LE will tell the jury all about the crime scene, clothes and all.

 

[m00c0w]

I'm discussing something in the Franks Memo, in the widely-discussed leaked crime scene photos picturing exactly what the Franks memo said, and content of approved YouTuber Gray Hughes' video (among many others not approved and not posted here). Has LE released it? Nope.

IMO MOO

You’re still stating it as fact, when it is anything but.

MOO

 

[TTF14]

Again, not even the overzealous defense has stretched nearly this far.

JMO

Overzealous? I hope if I'm ever arrested for a crime I have attorneys with half their zeal. They're fighting for their client and something stinks in Delphi.

IMO MOO