Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #187

[girlhasnoname]

That content was clearly not written for her IMO, so it would be pretty obvious to her that it was an end run around the gag order. No surprise that when the crime scene photos then leaked she put 2+2 together. Maybe she was wrong, but you can see why she would have thought that.

MOO

I don't personally believe Judge Gull was wrong in DQ'ing the D based on her belief that R&B were incompetent, were the source of the leaked photos, misconduct etc., I do however believe she went about DQ'ing R&B procedurally incorrect.
I think she did it in chambers as an effort for them to 'save face' in public, but she absolutely should have done it by the letter of the law.

Now here we are and this is the aftermath we are left dealing with. A circus of a case, 2 young best friends who have been denied justice for 7+ years and have become all but forgotten in the legal mayhem and social media dung.

Will there be a trial in Oct.? IDK Maybe we'll know more after the hearings at the end of the month. (If we have those)

#Justice4Abby&LibbyAlways

MOO

 

[Spartygirl]

#JusticeforLibbyandAbby

 

[Ravenmoon]

So, these are definitely the clothes.

The photo of Abby would be accurate for that day.

The photo of Libby was taken the day before, so it's possible that she changed before going to the trail.

This is one of the things that will come out during the trial.

JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

The flyer put out during the search also said Libby was wearing sweatpants.
That information had to have come from KG and BP who saw them last. It was important information at that time so I think it’s correct.
Did Libby change clothes? If she changed in the car on the way to the trails or had a backpack with a change of clothes in it, KG would have known and no way, in my opinion would she withhold that information from LE with her sister missing.
So, was Abby half dressed in jeans? Probably, Gray Hughes saw the leaked crime scene photo and said that’s what he saw.
The question then is, are those Libby’s jeans?
I 100% do not believe anyone else was at the crime scene but Libby, Abby, and their killer(probably RA). But I 55% do not believe those are Libby’s jeans and I have no notions or ideas as to how that occurred. One possible explanation is I’m just wrong and I can except that, but it still won’t make sense to me.

Maybe these were the same jeans that Abby wore?

 

[Megnut]

Snookered.

Snookered doesn't happen in high stakes Vegas betting.

Snookered is what happens when a bunch of teen boys play poker in someone's basement.

Snookered doesn't belong in the same sentence with sensitive crime scene photos.

That WAS NOT a casual meet up of friends, where one snookered another, and that representation is offensive to my senses. No guffaws, no my bads, no slap to the shoulder, I snookered you. I don't care if the second guy promised he was only going to show God Himself, first guy should never have let those photos out of his sight for a moment, I don't care how snookerproof he thought his friend/colleague was.

Worse that he didn't immediately take ownership. Buck stop. This isn't a game.

It was the Defense's DUTY OF CARE to make sure those photos had NO WAY to be leaked.

They failed.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

The clothing IMO is being used to confuse.

Abby's photo was the absolute most recent, capturing what she was wearing in the minutes before "disappearing".

Libby's most recent, the day before. I happen to think that that outfit was immemorialized but wasn't what Libby was wearing the day she "disappeared". I think the only missing clothes were ones taken by BG/RA as trophies. I don't think any additional items of clothing appeared but I do think it's possible that layer clarity confirmed what each girl wore and what clothing was recovered.

I suspect that one man (RA) was aible to control two girls by fear-- a gun, a knife, harm to one, harm to the other, and the (false) promise of letting them go if they cooperated.

I think Abby redressed herself. In her own clothing. A lethal but not immediately fatal knife to the neck could incapaciate her, without messy bleeding. Venous, neither arterial nor jugular.

Libby's clothing may have fallen into the water when they first crossed it....

IMO it may have been the moment RA slashed Abby, that Libby realized they weren't getting out alive. In this way, both girls may have been forced to watch the other receive fatal injuries. Monstrous.

JMO

 

[Salah11]

I don’t believe that RA had any issue controlling the girls. Neither one was going to leave the other, so straight away he had the edge. Then add in their age, fear and his weapons and he easily controlled them.

I have never understood the view that he couldn’t of done this alone.

Moo

 

[sunshineray]

I read from Pages 1-Pages 130 and it does mention clothes and nudity earlier on - even the shoe and mobile phone under one girl. Just maybe not in such detail although it does go into the two bras and how clean Abby was including the clothes. No blood on them.

Photos were being provided as exhibits, however.

Any mention of gray sweatpants?

 

[FrostedGlass]

By "not Libby's jeans" do you mean you think they are Abby's jeans? Or some unknown person?

I didn't read that re-dressing part of the FM very well so I always thought he put Libby's jeans on over Abby's jeans. Now I see Abby's jeans were still on the ground when he was finished with the dressing part.
AFAIR, I've never seen anything about A's missing jeans.

Are the "certain" clothing items he gathered the ones he took from the crime scene and the "remaining" items the ones he threw in the creek?

Page 42

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84.
(snipped...) the man
acting alone would now locate
certain clothing items that
he did not place on Abby, but
were still on the ground, including Abby’s jeans.
85.
Once he located those certain clothing
items, he would gather them.
86.
Once the man acting alone gathered the remaining
clothing items, he would leave the
immediate area around the crime scene and walk to the river.
87.
Once the man acting alone reached the river,
he would toss these clothing items into
the river.
88.
Once the man acting alone had thrown the clothing
items into the river, he would have
to walk back up to the crime scene and canvas
it to make sure he left nothing behind.

 

[sunshineray]

I may not be as up-to-date in this case as I would like and this may have been already dicussed but I have counted 3 different locations for Libby's shoes through the years.
1. As reported by Kelsi, in a driveway under the bridge before they were found.
2. As seen in a picture from the day the girls were found cought in a log in the river.
3. As reported in the defense Frank memorandum, under Abby's leg at the crime scene.
Sorry if I am late to the party with this question but I would really appreciate if any of you can clarify what is the reason to have 3 reported Libby's shoes found.
Thanks!

I just know from Kelsei that she was up on the bridge area and someone searching down below yelled up to her asked what color, IIRC, shoe Libby was wearing because someone had found one. Now down below the area of the bridge Kelsei was on there is a driveway/road somewhere, so it could have been found on or right by it I suppose?

There's also a picture with items of clothing and a shoe in the creek, caught along the edge.

That's all I know about for sure. Whether that shoe in the creek is Abby's and Libby's other shoe was at the crime scene found under Abby, I don't know.

 

[sunshineray]

Just thought of a scenario I don't think has been discussed ... maybe Abbey had a moment when she thought she could quickly put on some clothing, fast, and escape - so she grabbed whatever was handy and quickly as she could. But, it was too late and she was stopped.

(I am aware that there is no evidence for this. I realize this is not a court and I am not serving on the jury, but recognize I am on a crime discussion board.)

Speculating, brainstorming, tossing ideas on the table.

jmo

Libby was left partially covered, with leaves.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I just know from Kelsei that she was up on the bridge area and someone searching down below yelled up to her asked what color, IIRC, shoe Libby was wearing because someone had found one. Now down below the area of the bridge Kelsei was on there is a driveway/road somewhere, so it could have been found on or right by it I suppose?

There's also a picture with items of clothing and a shoe in the creek, caught along the edge.

That's all I know about for sure. Whether that shoe in the creek is Abby's and Libby's other shoe was at the crime scene found under Abby, I don't know.

Ok since we are staying on the topic of clothing at the crime scene, I had some notes from last night when I went through that section of the Franks.
These a questions that are pertinent if these details are correct.
Abby was redressed with two bras, two tops and both shoes. This seems extra laborious to cover a sexual crime. I guess this is why I keep thinking Libby redressed her friend.
The ground was described as wet under both girls.
My question was, what caused the ground to be wet 50 feet from the creek under the deceased girls?

 

[steeltowngirl]

RSBM. This is why I found the recent Murder Sheet podcast so fascinating - was the MW strategy actually an attempt to build a supporter base by use of leaks and wild speculation in motions?



Like this is just wild IMO. Why on earth would a theory not supported by any facts be included in a Franks motion - when the speculated theory has nothing at all to do with the relief sought?

Where does this theory even come from?

MOO

The part about the saving of blood for a future ritual was some very wild speculation. I am guessing defense added that tidbit to support their theory of a ritual killing. Why go there at all? I can again only guess that their theory is designed to distance RA from the motive for the crime, which goes something like this. If the motive was a ritual, it can’t be RA, because he’s not an Odinist, and defense did what LE allegedly failed to do and located the real killers - the Odinists. Of course, we have no proof of any ritual, let alone that RA is not possibly one himself.

It’s a look there, not here tactic. If the motive was SA, as many of us suspect, then RA cannot be ruled out simply by motive. Defense doesn’t want anyone to look at the simplest answer. The answer that doesn’t exonerate their client.

jmo

 

[sunshineray]

Ok since we are staying on the topic of clothing at the crime scene, I had some notes from last night when I went through that section of the Franks.
These a questions that are pertinent if these details are correct.
Abby was redressed with two bras, two tops and both shoes. This seems extra laborious to cover a sexual crime. I guess this is why I keep thinking Libby redressed her friend.
The ground was described as wet under both girls.
My question was, what caused the ground to be wet 50 feet from the creek under the deceased girls?

Blood? Or water dripped from their clothes (including RA) after crossing the creek? I've also wondered if Libby's tie-dyed shirt (also seen in the creek/clothes picture) was used to wipe/wash off Abby's body...by whom, Libby or RA, I don't know?

 

[sunshineray]

So that part of the Franks memo is believed, but nothing else? How do we decide what to believe from the FM and what not to believe?

That part had crime scene pictures attached didn't it. Those pictures were generated by LE investigators. So probably not defense's opinion and conjectures involved? But then you never know with something prepared by this defense and their team. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

I didn't think Richard Allen was carrying extra clothes either, at first. But the more I think about it, it wouldn't surprise me anymore. The actions carried out that day are evil, perverted, and planned. IMO Camera, tripod, extra clothes. Possible IMO

It is possible he'd picked out and stashed somethings at the crime scene but why then go on the trail walking? Why not wait/lurk in the woods by the bridge, either side? That makes me think he wasn't all that organized. I do think it's highly possible though he took images and/or video of the girls.

 

[TTF14]

It is possible he'd picked out and stashed somethings at the crime scene but why then go on the trail walking? Why not wait/lurk in the woods by the bridge, either side? That makes me think he wasn't all that organized. I do think it's highly possible though he took images and/or video of the girls.

BBM

Or someone/an accomplice did. I agree.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

That part had crime scene pictures attached didn't it. Those pictures were generated by LE investigators. So probably not defense's opinion and conjectures involved? But then you never know with something prepared by this defense and their team. AJMO

I don't think there were any images attached to the Franks memo. Do you mean they were just referenced/cited? Like depositions were referenced/cited? And other items of discovery?

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

I remembered there was confusion over what Libby was wearing, how everyone thought it was sweatpants and tie dye t shirt and the jeans surprised everyone. I found this old tweet from Fox59 with photos of what they were reported to be wearing.

View attachment 516538

https://twitter.com/x/status/831560713462222848

And somewhere Libby's shirt was described as having fringe on the bottom. That sure doesn't seem to be the case with that shirt in the picture. It also looks like Libby is wearing black leggings in that picture, not sweatpants nor jeans. This tweet was also hours before they found them so information could be wrong...not nefariously so, just wrong. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

BBM

Or someone/an accomplice did. I agree.

IMO MOO

I'm not thinking an accomplice at the scene but maybe images being transferred to someone via wifi...possibly.