Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #187

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

She was involved in the SCOIN issue and was commenting on that (and I believe she may have done that pro bono, but I need to look into that to see if I'm right). This does not mean she is "his attorney" as the writer of the article erroneously said. (This is what I mean about journalists and their creative liberty and assumptions).

IMO MOO

Thanks for posting.

The behavior displayed by everyone involved in these exchanges is appalling. I hope they face public condemnation by everyone who cares about justice.

Sad to think that the toxic approach to faux PR and marketing on the behalf of an accused killer — and trashing the families of the victims — has such potential to be perpetuated in public forums by other acolytes. That was the hope of these unethical chowderheads.

IMO MOO ETC

 

[TTF14]

SHE REPRESENTED HIM IN THE SUPREME COURT OF INDIANA. She SPOKE for him, in the court, as his legal representative.


According to our sister station WTHR, civil attorneys Mark K. Leeman and Cara Schaefer Wieneke filed a brief on behalf of Allen “to ensure that, going forward, Richard Allen receives his fundamental right to counsel.”

In the brief, the attorneys are asking for the following:

• Reinstate attorneys Andrew Baldwin and Bradley Rozzi as Allen’s court-appointed counsel
• Set a trial date within 70 days from the issuance of the writ of mandamus
• Remove Special Judge Frances Gull and appoint a new one

OK, but this is still the interpretation of the writer. Did she represent Richard Allen in an official capacity or was she on the team representing Baldwin and Rozzi?

I need to watch that hearing again, but not tonight.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Richard Allen's Appellate Attorney is in an ongoing professional group chat, in which they are discussing how to pry into the upcoming jurors private lives in order to potentially cause a mistrial.

This podcast is not a 'content creator's war.' It is a shocking leak revealing the unethical, potentially illegal behaviour going on behind the scenes with one of Allen's attorneys and some of the defense teams legal advisors.

I am guessing that if some of the prosecutions legal advisors had a defector that was leaking their group chats concerning HOW they planned to defeat the defense team's strategy, and they were mocking the victim's family and trash talking the sitting Judge, I AM PRETTY SURE the pro defense crew would be listening to the podcast and discussing it here. IMO

I don't think these were released for money---I think they wanted to prevent this crew from achieving these shady goals by bringing it into the open.

Thank you for so perfectly framing this information.
Spectacularly stated!

 

[m00c0w]

She was involved in the SCOIN issue and was commenting on that (and I believe she may have done that pro bono, but I need to look into that to see if I'm right). This does not mean she is "his attorney" as the writer of the article erroneously said. (This is what I mean about journalists and their creative liberty and assumptions).

IMO MOO

Saying she was his attorney is not erroneous.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[TTF14]

Thanks for posting.

The behavior displayed by everyone involved in these exchanges is appalling. I hope they face public condemnation by everyone who cares about justice.

Sad to think that the toxic approach to faux PR and marketing on the behalf of an accused killer — and trashing the families of the victims — has such potential to be perpetuated in public forums by other acolytes. That was the hope of these unethical chowderheads.

IMO MOO ETC

And what do you think their motives were behind it? Do you think they think RA is guilty but are saying the things they are saying anyway? Or do you think they think he's not guilty and are mad as hell?

I'm not condoning anyone's words or behavior.

But, I think their intentions are good. I think they genuinely believe this man is innocent.

I believe it benefits us all to always assume people on the "other side" have good intentions even if they believe and act differently than we do.

IMIO MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

LEVERAGE

Delphi Daughters: Untold story of Abby & Libby

Abby & Libby had a bond stronger than most, one that, even in the face of the ultimate fear, wasn't broken.

www.wrtv.com

 

[TTF14]

Saying she was his attorney is not erroneous.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

Thank you!

Is she still listed as one of his attorneys?

 

[photographer4]

It was Motta who claims he is a mouth piece for the defense. Let’s hope the prosecution and Judge Gull have transcripts of these leaked private chats and all this unprofessional behavior will be dealt with.

IMO

I don't think JG has any jurisdiction here given these are private conversations? We'd be very naive if we believed for a moment that the Prosecution have not had similar comments to make of their own about various people involved in the case. EG: maybe there's a cop NM dislikes because he steps in it and NM has to bail him out too often and its become office fodder around the Prosecution's water cooler. I'd be willing to bet that there have been private conversations in writing or verbally among members of LE proclaiming that this person or this is a dolt, or whatnot.

I honestly don't care at this point who says what in social media. There's a good reason why I haven't bothered to really listen to Murder Sheets, or follow the various social media producers regarding this (or most other) cases. All they serve to do is muddy the waters. Everything they may be saying could well be factual and I *still* wouldn't really care. Focus on RA and the trial and proving or disproving the case - the rest is nonsense.

 

[m00c0w]

Thank you!

Is she still listed as one of his attorneys?

Edit: Not sure. She's still listed as retained under that case. Would make sense she's still retained if necessary.

 

[photographer4]

I stopped listening when MS started with the name-calling, i.e. "internet cranks". A lifetime of experience has taught me that when people start with the name-calling, they usually don't have anything completely truthful to say. Just my opinion.

I read that in the write up and got annoyed with how often they used this term in such a short span... I listened to the first 24 minutes of the first episode. I just can't with these people. If something of actual importance is reported on by a credible source, I'd be happy to read it and consider it. But for now.... why do we find them credible (any social media content creators / podcasters) when it is he said / she said and a lot of nonsense?

 

[TTF14]

I don't think JG has any jurisdiction here given these are private conversations? We'd be very naive if we believed for a moment that the Prosecution have had similar comments to make of their own about various people involved in the case. EG: maybe there's a cop NM dislikes because he steps in it and NM has to bail him out too often and its become office fodder around the Prosecution's water cooler. I'd be willing to bet that there have been private conversations in writing or verbally among members of LE proclaiming that this person or this is a dolt, or whatnot.

I honestly don't care at this point who says what in social media. There's a good reason why I haven't bothered to really listen to Murder Sheets, or follow the various social media producers regarding this (or most other) cases. All they serve to do is muddy the waters. Everything they may be saying could well be factual and I *still* wouldn't really care. Focus on RA and the trial and proving or disproving the case - the rest is nonsense.

Well said.

We only know about what's said "behind closed doors" when someone in the group decides to betray and reveal it (and then someone else decides to publish and make money off it). We have no clue what else is said and by whom.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

Edit: Not sure. She's still listed as retained under that case. Would make sense she's still retained if necessary.

I may have been mistaken about her involvement in this case. I thought she was only part of the SCOIN part of it, and that's done and over with because the Supreme Court told Judge Gull she was wrong in what she did.

IMO MOO

 

[photographer4]

BBM
Exactly !!!

Tamper the jury.
bad mouth the victims and families.... totally Unethical and Unprofessional.
And try to recuse Judge Gull and file frivolous docs and FM's
They know their case is weak.
They are trying to derail trial.

It is quite obvious and has been even before listening to the podcast.

Having no patience to listen to Murder Sheets etc... I would like to ask: is there any way that this nonsense (all of it, up to and *including* the Murder Sheets) could land the entire case in a mistrial? Its a genuine question. What does Murder Sheets hope to gain by making this all public exactly? I'm curious of their motives here (as I am with all "sources" outside of the court itself and actual media outlets with actual credibility).

 

[photographer4]

Who's got the time to listen to two people talk back and forth for over an hour when they ideas they express might take 5 to 10 minutes to read? Any reputable group, individual or organization put their ideas and opinions in writing. I refuse to waste my time listening to recordings of people talking. My opinion only.

I noticed that Murder Sheets stated they offered people the chance to put a response in writing to clarify their positions or however they worded it. Who in their RIGHT MIND is going to do that for a podcaster??? And if so... WHY?? Do they think people are this uneducated that they don't expect that anything they may write could well have to be defended in court at some point? With this in mind, I'm perplexed why these backdoor messages were going back and forth in the first place?? Who does these things? UGH.

 

[TTF14]

Having no patience to listen to Murder Sheets etc... I would like to ask: is there any way that this nonsense (all of it, up to and *including* the Murder Sheets) could land the entire case in a mistrial? Its a genuine question. What does Murder Sheets hope to gain by making this all public exactly? I'm curious of their motives here (as I am with all "sources" outside of the court itself and actual media outlets with actual credibility).

Well, they aren't a nonprofit....this is how they make money. So there's that. Beyond that, can't speak to their motive, but I do believe everyone involved here wants justice for Abby and Libby and for the right person to be convicted. Some are just more ready to convict RA without a trial than others.

IMO MOO

 

[m00c0w]

I may have been mistaken about her involvement in this case. I thought she was only part of the SCOIN part of it, and that's done and over with because the Supreme Court told Judge Gull she was wrong in what she did.

IMO MOO

There's no way for us random folk to know if she's still under retainer or not. You're correct about her SCOIN involvement. The way things are going, though, it would make a ton of sense to still have her retained in case the primary attorneys get in hot water again. But no way to know for sure. For the record, the appellate case she was on the docket for was only closed in March so if any of these purported messages were during that timeframe, it doesn't really change much.

A small disclaimer - I have no idea what the messages are supposed to be about or how bad they're supposed to supposedly be for whoever is involved. I'll probably listen to the podcasts over the next few days. Just trying to provide some basic facts to clarify it all.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

I am just listening the first episode and I feel sick. Awful people and awful "attorneys". The attacks on Libby's family.. Glad the guy in the channel gave MS access to their twitter and this crazy conversations and attempt to subvert justice.

I gave up listening, can anyone pls clarify who gave the private group messages to the murder sheets? If they said it in the first 24 minutes, then they lost my focus early on.

 

[m00c0w]

If anyone comes up with some transcripts, I'd love to read them versus listen to MS. I'm with a few others here in that I can't stand either of them, especially after their weird leaks and money-grabbiness.

 

[TTF14]

I gave up listening, can anyone pls clarify who gave the private group messages to the murder sheets? If they said it in the first 24 minutes, then they lost my focus early on.

From what I have understood (without listening), it was Paul M., also known as "tobor" on Reddit, who was involved with the YouTube channel known as "The Unraveling." He "defected" (had some kind of falling out with the other two, who are ladies) and turned it all over to....I guess the podcasters known as The Murder Sheets.

IMO MOO

 

[photographer4]

Well, they aren't a nonprofit....this is how they make money. So there's that. Beyond that, can't speak to their motive, but I do believe everyone involved here wants justice for Abby and Libby and for the right person to be convicted. Some are just more ready to convict RA without a trial than others.

IMO MOO

I do not believe there can ever be justice for dead victims, nor for their loved ones left behind. Nothing brings them back. Nothing undoes the heinous crimes committed against them. My understanding of justice has more to do with restitution by the guilty party for the crimes. I don't believe anything any guilty party in this crime will ever do will make up for what happened to those kids. I really do not. So in the end, I hope that the right person(s) is/are convicted and face consequences accordingly, and that the accused has a fair trial. In the end, I hope the families and loved ones can find some sort of closure and peace with it though I'm unsure how they'd ever really do this. My heart goes to them more than anyone in this matter.