Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #187

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From what I have understood (without listening), it was Paul M., also known as "tobor" on Reddit, who was involved with the YouTube channel known as "The Unraveling." He "defected" (had some kind of falling out with the other two, who are ladies) and turned it all over to....I guess the podcasters known as The Murder Sheets.

IMO MOO
I have happily never heard of this youtube show, nor the person who rolls it out whom you've named above. Ty. So why do we believe that it is truthful and not tampered with by someone then?
 
I have not seen the crazy clown show unfolding on the Prosecution side nearly as much as I've seen the shenanigans from the D.

And these group texts are not going to help them in their urgent mission to get the judge booted from the trial, imo.
Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen at all.
 
Because The Murder Sheets is an accepted source here.

IMO MOO
Why though? What makes this podcast a reputable source over any of the others out there? What makes Grey Hughes an approved source here as well while I'm at it? Genuinely asking. THere is no oversight, no ethics involved in social media creation. None. Its a money making machine (how often does Grey ask for donations on his show and then tell off people who don't see things as he does???). Its gross. No thanks.
 
Why though? What makes this podcast a reputable source over any of the others out there? What makes Grey Hughes an approved source here as well while I'm at it? Genuinely asking. THere is no oversight, no ethics involved in social media creation. None. Its a money making machine (how often does Grey ask for donations on his show and then tell off people who don't see things as he does???). Its gross. No thanks.
I think the main reason MS became an approved source is because they were leaking(?)/revealing things about the case no one else had, but could be verified. As far as GH, got me.

JMO
 
Richard Allen's Appellate Attorney is in an ongoing professional group chat, in which they are discussing how to pry into the upcoming jurors private lives in order to potentially cause a mistrial.

This podcast is not a 'content creator's war.' It is a shocking leak revealing the unethical, potentially illegal behaviour going on behind the scenes with one of Allen's attorneys and some of the defense teams legal advisors.

I am guessing that if some of the prosecutions legal advisors had a defector that was leaking their group chats concerning HOW they planned to defeat the defense team's strategy, and they were mocking the victim's family and trash talking the sitting Judge, I AM PRETTY SURE the pro defense crew would be listening to the podcast and discussing it here. IMO

I don't think these were released for money---I think they wanted to prevent this crew from achieving these shady goals by bringing it into the open.
If they had these concerns, I wonder, could they not have sent them directly to JG? Is there not some legal footwork here they could have done in order to bring it to her attention in a motion or something? I'm not a lawyer, so this is a genuine question. Why make it public? How much money does each episode garner for Murder Sheets or other content creators? What is their motivation and end goal here? If it were as noble as we hope, then surely there must have been some more ethical way to go about this, no?
 
Did that include asking YouTubers to dig up information on all prospective jurors?
Having not listened, and refusing to listen so I want to ask: who asked whom to do this? What proof is there of this or are we just meant to accept that The Murder Sheets is the gospel truth, or their "source(s)" are? It might all be true or true in part, but because I cannot verify the source, and because I believe in information hygiene -- I'm not buying into the frenzy. Even if major media picked this story up at this point, it would still be just a story - a one sided view through a narrow lens in my view. Ty in advance if you're able to answer (or anyone is).
 
Maybe, maybe not.

But she was Richard Allen's attorney and represented him in the Indiana Supreme Court. So these texts from her and her colleagues are very disturbing. The way they trash talk and demean the judge, the victims and their families is horrible.
She isn't obligated to be respectful of the family though, is she? It would be nice, yes. It would be professional sure. But she isn't obligated to as far as I know? I say this without having any idea what she may have said about the family, but unless she's committed libel or slander against them, then I'm afraid its just not nice, but not illegal. We are respectful of the family members here, but in many, many places, the internet is not nearly so kind.
 
I think the main reason MS became an approved source is because they were leaking(?)/revealing things about the case no one else had, but could be verified. As far as GH, got me.

JMO
I recall that - how is their behavior less egregious than any of the other social media creators then? Why did they take it upon themselves to leak information? Motivation is key... sounds profitable to me.
 
I think the main reason MS became an approved source is because they were leaking(?)/revealing things about the case no one else had, but could be verified. As far as GH, got me.

JMO
Yes. They were approved when MSM covered their release of the RL search warrant and then the police interview of KK.


 
If they had these concerns, I wonder, could they not have sent them directly to JG? Is there not some legal footwork here they could have done in order to bring it to her attention in a motion or something? I'm not a lawyer, so this is a genuine question. Why make it public? How much money does each episode garner for Murder Sheets or other content creators? What is their motivation and end goal here? If it were as noble as we hope, then surely there must have been some more ethical way to go about this, no?
What is inherently unethical about it? I’ll be the first to say I don’t like MS and I find them obnoxious, but they do come across valid information because they’ve become a trusted outlet in this case. I’m not sure I agree that potential blatant ethical concerns (if that’s what is being alleged) should be swept under the rug and kept hush-hush while waiting on a court ruling, especially when it appears that side is also constantly using legal process to sidestep the gag order and attempt to influence the public at large.

Is there a profit motive? Maybe. I can’t see them getting paid too much from the podcast with how niche of a subject this case is. I also don’t think it’s necessarily fair to deprive them of pay for extensive work that they do, just because it deals with a court case. Last I knew, they are only getting paid from sponsors like basically every other media outlet in existence.

JMO
 
From what I understand, Weineke and Ausbrook were limited appearance, months ago. The SCOIN order was 6 months ago? The current actual defense lawyers are nowhere in this chat.

This “journalism” is reading Twitter DMs. This is a private conversation between a bunch of people who aren’t even working on this case. Mock outrage to garner clicks. Maybe their property taxes came due or something. They had to drop a quick 3 part series on random peoples Twitter DMs.
 
I'm sorry for totally changing the subject here, but I just remembered something that popped into my head two days ago and I wanted to ask, but keep forgetting.

Did anything ever come of Nick McLeland trying to get Todd Click's employment records for possible Brady violations?
 
She isn't obligated to be respectful of the family though, is she? It would be nice, yes. It would be professional sure. But she isn't obligated to as far as I know? I say this without having any idea what she may have said about the family, but unless she's committed libel or slander against them, then I'm afraid its just not nice, but not illegal. We are respectful of the family members here, but in many, many places, the internet is not nearly so kind.
Maybe not legally, but I think morally she would be obligated, to treat the victim's and their grieving families with respect. IMO


verb
past tense: obligated; past participle: obligated
/ˈäbləˌɡāt/
  1. 1.
    bind or compel (someone), especially legally or morally.


 
Yes. They were approved when MSM covered their release of the RL search warrant and then the police interview of KK.


Thank you for taking the time to get the links!
 
What is inherently unethical about it? I’ll be the first to say I don’t like MS and I find them obnoxious, but they do come across valid information because they’ve become a trusted outlet in this case. I’m not sure I agree that potential blatant ethical concerns (if that’s what is being alleged) should be swept under the rug and kept hush-hush while waiting on a court ruling, especially when it appears that side is also constantly using legal process to sidestep the gag order and attempt to influence the public at large.

Is there a profit motive? Maybe. I can’t see them getting paid too much from the podcast with how niche of a subject this case is. I also don’t think it’s necessarily fair to deprive them of pay for extensive work that they do, just because it deals with a court case. Last I knew, they are only getting paid from sponsors like basically every other media outlet in existence.

JMO
I see what you’re saying. I don’t know that it’s exactly unethical but how is what they’re doing considered a good thing when they’re slinging mud just as much as the people they’re talking about? I don’t see this as some act of heroics or bravery. I see it as a mud slinging festival. One I won’t pay to attend. The mud stops being slung when it stops being profitable.

I wonder if this is an issue for lawmakers to consider? I suppose it would fall under free speech right now but what about a laws that stop social media content creators podcasting from financial benefits for their content? Surely there is a way to stop the nonsense among creators at large, no?

Would they still be so inclined to create and share content if some law dictated that a portion (eg: 50%) must go towards the victims in the cases they’re covering regardless of the outcome of any given case?

I just don’t think I believe that creators are there out of the goodness of their hearts. If it wasn’t paying, they’d quit bothering.
 
From what I understand, Weineke and Ausbrook were limited appearance, months ago. The SCOIN order was 6 months ago?

Cara W was representing RA at the last SCOIN hearing---and some of the recent motions seem to flirt with the idea of going to SCOIN again. If so, I am pretty sure she would be expected to represent him again.

INDIANAPOLIS — UPDATE: Richard Allen’s civil attorney does not expect Richard Allen to attend a hearing later this month before the Indiana Supreme Court. Attorney Cara Wieneke .....


As for Ausbrook, here he was 3 months ago, giving interviews and press releases for the crowd funding project. He must be part of the defense team if he has the authority to speak for them concerning RA's donation fund.

The current actual defense lawyers are nowhere in this chat.
The current defense lawyer's fingerprints are all over this chat. THESE are their colleagues and confidants. These are the troops they brought into court in previous hearings . Ausbrook and Wieneke are legal advisors for the current D team.

Wieneke had a KEY ROLE in helping the DT get their jobs back by going to SCOIN. And she has been said to be working on future Appellate issues and frequently does podcasts discussing these future concerns.

Ausbrook helped delegate the Crowd Sourcing Fundraiser and was the spokesman for it in various newscasts and news articles.

They are known to be in the small circle of Defense friends and colleagues.
This “journalism” is reading Twitter DMs. This is a private conversation between a bunch of people who aren’t even working on this case.
YES, they are ....future DMs will reveal just how they are doing so.
Mock outrage to garner clicks.

It's not 'mock' outrage.
Maybe their property taxes came due or something. They had to drop a quick 3 part series on random peoples Twitter DMs.
Not 'random' people. CW REPRESENTED RA before the Supreme Court of Indiana. She is not a Rando.
 
I see what you’re saying. I don’t know that it’s exactly unethical but how is what they’re doing considered a good thing when they’re slinging mud just as much as the people they’re talking about? I don’t see this as some act of heroics or bravery. I see it as a mud slinging festival. One I won’t pay to attend. The mud stops being slung when it stops being profitable.

I wonder if this is an issue for lawmakers to consider? I suppose it would fall under free speech right now but what about a laws that stop social media content creators podcasting from financial benefits for their content? Surely there is a way to stop the nonsense among creators at large, no?

Would they still be so inclined to create and share content if some law dictated that a portion (eg: 50%) must go towards the victims in the cases they’re covering regardless of the outcome of any given case?

I just don’t think I believe that creators are there out of the goodness of their hearts. If it wasn’t paying, they’d quit bothering.
I think if you watched it and saw for yourself what they were saying AND PLANNING to do, you might feel differently about some things.

The mudslinging is what these colleagues of the DT were doing. It's not the MS that was slinging mud. They were just given copies of the horrid things being said by these people, and discussions about the shady things they were actively planning.

I DO see it as heroic because someone needs to step in and prevent th future jury tampering and the potential for a hung jury, which was one of the goals they were planning for.

I do believe the creators are doing some of these things out of the goodness of their hearts. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be paid for their podcasts though.

Kind of funny that there is a suggestion up above that MS should give 50% of the profits to the victims family, AS IF MS is harming them, when in fact, these leaked texts are highly disrespectful of the victims and their families, and they discussed shady manipulative steps they might take to taint the jury and get a hung jury.

I have a better idea, maybe 50% of that crowd funding cash should go to the victim's families? ;)
 
I'm sorry for totally changing the subject here, but I just remembered something that popped into my head two days ago and I wanted to ask, but keep forgetting.

Did anything ever come of Nick McLeland trying to get Todd Click's employment records for possible Brady violations?
The last I know is that Gull approved the subpoena but that’s end of my memory on what else may have come from it. MOO
 

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