Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #187

[Tealgrove]

MOO

To say I am disgusted by the behaviour of the Defence Team would be an understatement.

Their conduct is appalling. From the disrespect towards the court, the disrespect to the families of 2 murdered young girls and their lies and underhanded plots. Let’s add purposeful leaking of crime scenes photos of Abby and Libby and the fallout from that exercise, which cost a human being their life, these people just don’t care.

The multiple Frank’s Memorandums and bold faced lies, accusing, by name, others of committing the murders, made up stories and fantasy essays are juvenile and unprofessional. These guys deserve no respect. NONE.

They have wasted the court’s time and resources. It is unconscionable.

Their association with Social Media Producers and platforms is incredibly questionable. We know about some of the platforms they are using but I guarantee they are using others to get around the gag order and plant the seeds of conspiracy. So where else are they engaging? What other social media platforms are they using to further their cause?

They enjoy their game playing. They enjoy their little band of compatriots. They enjoy the reactions they invoke. It’s fun. I can just imagine the squeals of delight when they receive a reaction.

They are disgusting IMO.

This is no longer about defending RA. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. This is all about them. This is not about mounting a vigorous defence. This is about their egos and seeing how far they can push the envelope. This is about book deals and movie rights in the future.

Does RA even know what they are doing? Is he involved in his own defence?

IMO they are clowns and not very smart ones at that. Seriously? Using public SM chats to discuss strategy? They get caught out all the time. They have no shame.

I’ve been to the trails. I’ve been to the bridge. I tidied up the memorials. I sat and took in the sights and sounds. It’s such a beautiful place and it’s hard to imagine something so evil happened there. I have been here since the day the girls went missing. Never, in a million years, could I have anticipated what has been going on here.

There’s a way to defend a client without denigrating the memory of two murdered girls. There’s a way to defend your client without using appalling language against the family of the victims. There’s a way to conduct yourself in a court of law without being disrespectful to the court and the Judge.

If they can’t find that way then it’s time to let RA plead guilty and call it a day, if that’s what he wants to do.

I am so sad that this is where we are.

#justiceforabbyandlibby

MOO JMO IMHO

 

[photographer4]

The whole thing is so unethical and crazy it is hard to know where to start with it.

But as a bare minimum you would think Judge Gull should be asking CW if she did in fact draft the motion for parity and then tweet about it. Violation of the gag order?

But quite apart from that, you'd think members of the professional should simply not be engaging in this kind of conduct - it calls the profession into disrepute. IMO

I'm not naive, but I am shocked that it was this bad and blatant.

Just wondering: can JG drag any person she cares to into her court room or chambers to discuss this or any other matter? What process would a judge use to do so? A bench warrant or?

 

[girlhasnoname]

MOO

To say I am disgusted by the behaviour of the Defence Team would be an understatement.

Their conduct is appalling. From the disrespect towards the court, the disrespect to the families of 2 murdered young girls and their lies and underhanded plots. Let’s add purposeful leaking of crime scenes photos of Abby and Libby and the fallout from that exercise, which cost a human being their life, these people just don’t care.

The multiple Frank’s Memorandums and bold faced lies, accusing, by name, others of committing the murders, made up stories and fantasy essays are juvenile and unprofessional. These guys deserve no respect. NONE.

They have wasted the court’s time and resources. It is unconscionable.

Their association with Social Media Producers and platforms is incredibly questionable. We know about some of the platforms they are using but I guarantee they are using others to get around the gag order and plant the seeds of conspiracy. So where else are they engaging? What other social media platforms are they using to further their cause?

They enjoy their game playing. They enjoy their little band of compatriots. They enjoy the reactions they invoke. It’s fun. I can just imagine the squeals of delight when they receive a reaction.

They are disgusting IMO.

This is no longer about defending RA. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. This is all about them. This is not about mounting a vigorous defence. This is about their egos and seeing how far they can push the envelope. This is about book deals and movie rights in the future.

Does RA even know what they are doing? Is he involved in his own defence?

IMO they are clowns and not very smart ones at that. Seriously? Using public SM chats to discuss strategy? They get caught out all the time. They have no shame.

I’ve been to the trails. I’ve been to the bridge. I tidied up the memorials. I sat and took in the sights and sounds. It’s such a beautiful place and it’s hard to imagine something so evil happened there. I have been here since the day the girls went missing. Never, in a million years, could I have anticipated what has been going on here.

There’s a way to defend a client without denigrating the memory of two murdered girls. There’s a way to defend your client without using appalling language against the family of the victims. There’s a way to conduct yourself in a court of law without being disrespectful to the court and the Judge.

If they can’t find that way then it’s time to let RA plead guilty and call it a day, if that’s what he wants to do.

I am so sad that this is where we are.

#justiceforabbyandlibby

MOO JMO IMHO

^^^ THIS, ALL THIS^^^

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Most of the unpleasantness that has occurred on this thread has not been about one person thinking RA is guilty and another thinking he’s innocent. We all pretty much understand and respect that others may have different opinions on that.
Our problems were almost always concerning the behavior and tactics of the defense team. Some were offended and appalled by them, others defended them at every corner.
I’m glad all this came out. A light needed to be shone here.
Now we know.

 

[Yemelyan]

This entire case has been a nightmare from the beginning. From the “Keystone Cops” to this legal drama today. They have drawings, a voice recording, and evidence, but still no one is paying for the crime. Years are passing by, memories fade, evidence gets lost, people pass away, and yet here we are, going on eight years since the girls were brutally murdered and still, no one has been arrested. Why?
Perhaps the murderer sits in a jail cell.

Bolded by me...Richard Allen was arrested and charged for these murders in October 2022. Maybe you meant convicted? Or I am mis-reading your post, for which I apologize.

To answer your previous question, no links to Brian Chadwell were ever found that we know about. He is another one for whom a SODDI defense might work, but RA's attorneys aren't pursuing that.

 

[justtrish]

I can't put them into the words I truly want to hear @nadia90 for fear of breaking the TOS. I can say it's the most vulgar, jarring, cruel, and mean spirited things I've heard.

To make matters worse, this is coming from a group of Attorneys. Supposedly educated, with ethics and morals. Who they are now shows me they are really just plain bad people. There's no other way to say it.

My thoughts will remain focused on #Justice4Abby&Libby, and I hope the families do not listen to this vitriol.

JMO

I just finished the first episode and I am just shocked, disgusted, and just plain disappointed.

 

[TTF14]

Gotta hand it to the MS podcasters. Their timing, one week before the hearings, was impeccable.

IMO MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I just finished the first episode and I am just shocked, disgusted, and just plain disappointed.

Yeah, my finger fought over which emoji to use one. Mad won, but sad was closely right behind.

 

[nadia90]

There have been thousands of crimes committed with a gun. It makes people comply when they are pointed at you. Not hard to understand that.

 

[nadia90]

MOO

To say I am disgusted by the behaviour of the Defence Team would be an understatement.

Their conduct is appalling. From the disrespect towards the court, the disrespect to the families of 2 murdered young girls and their lies and underhanded plots. Let’s add purposeful leaking of crime scenes photos of Abby and Libby and the fallout from that exercise, which cost a human being their life, these people just don’t care.

The multiple Frank’s Memorandums and bold faced lies, accusing, by name, others of committing the murders, made up stories and fantasy essays are juvenile and unprofessional. These guys deserve no respect. NONE.

They have wasted the court’s time and resources. It is unconscionable.

Their association with Social Media Producers and platforms is incredibly questionable. We know about some of the platforms they are using but I guarantee they are using others to get around the gag order and plant the seeds of conspiracy. So where else are they engaging? What other social media platforms are they using to further their cause?

They enjoy their game playing. They enjoy their little band of compatriots. They enjoy the reactions they invoke. It’s fun. I can just imagine the squeals of delight when they receive a reaction.

They are disgusting IMO.

This is no longer about defending RA. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. This is all about them. This is not about mounting a vigorous defence. This is about their egos and seeing how far they can push the envelope. This is about book deals and movie rights in the future.

Does RA even know what they are doing? Is he involved in his own defence?

IMO they are clowns and not very smart ones at that. Seriously? Using public SM chats to discuss strategy? They get caught out all the time. They have no shame.

I’ve been to the trails. I’ve been to the bridge. I tidied up the memorials. I sat and took in the sights and sounds. It’s such a beautiful place and it’s hard to imagine something so evil happened there. I have been here since the day the girls went missing. Never, in a million years, could I have anticipated what has been going on here.

There’s a way to defend a client without denigrating the memory of two murdered girls. There’s a way to defend your client without using appalling language against the family of the victims. There’s a way to conduct yourself in a court of law without being disrespectful to the court and the Judge.

If they can’t find that way then it’s time to let RA plead guilty and call it a day, if that’s what he wants to do.

I am so sad that this is where we are.

#justiceforabbyandlibby

MOO JMO IMHO

YES YES YES!!!!!

 

[justtrish]

Gotta hand it to the MS podcasters. Their timing, one week before the hearings, was impeccable.

IMO MOO

Gotta hand it to attorneys Weineke and Ausbrook, and Motta for their words and actions that they so freely put into written word. If they didn't engage in that despicable behavior then MS would have nothing to speak about. That behavior deserves to be exposed. If anyone close to the defense (and I'd say appellate attorneys for RA are pretty darn close) are attempting to influence the jury and engaging in unethical behavior then I say shine that light.. better before a trial than after.

 

[FrostedGlass]

If I bite the bullet and listen to a MS episode, will I learn what PM's motivation was to betray his friends by turning their private convos over to MS?

Do the MS episodes include any of his participation? If so, which one?
Any help would be very much appreciated.

 

[Megnut]

The point about the fund is the ethics.

They promoted the fund saying that it was safe to donate to because it was started by DH. But they knew actually it was not started by DH. Instead some rando youtuber.

MOO

And it was started facetiously. With duplicity even.

To support the (false, strategic) narrative that the judge was biased, the RA's right to a fair trial was in jeopardy, that the Defense was prevented from a defense, when these attorneys -- with DECADES OF EXPERIENCE between them -- failed to submit their requests correctly. Once, corrected, they were approved, as they would have been in the first place.

The fund served its exact purpose IMO -- it drew positive attention to RA by drawing negative focus (artificially) on the State/judge. The internet aboil in some sectors whereby the target audience blew up social media with language about the injustice to RA and his right to a fair trial WHEN THEY'RE WAS NO SUCH VIOLATION.

These seasoned attorneys KNOW HOW TO SUBMIT BOTH FOR EXPENSES EXPECTED AND ECPENSES INCURRED. They also know how not to write one which IMO is what they purposefully did.

Surely they gave the money all back, right? Right.

They are not defending RA's innocence or even protecting his 'fair trial' rights. They are, by all appearances, abrogating the rule of law in an attempt to rig the outcome of a trial.

JMshockedO

 

[TTF14]

Gotta hand it to attorneys Weineke and Ausbrook, and Motta for their words and actions that they so freely put into written word. If they didn't engage in that despicable behavior then MS would have nothing to speak about. That behavior deserves to be exposed. If anyone close to the defense (and I'd say appellate attorneys for RA are pretty darn close) are attempting to influence the jury and engaging in unethical behavior then I say shine that light.. better before a trial than after.

I agree. Anyone engaging in underhanded tactics to try to influence a future jury should be dealt with.

 

[grannygates]

Where can i find the affidavit?

Here’s a link to the redacted affidavit:

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

There are two versions and this was the version released to the public with the omissions, the “bloody” added and the tan jacket changed to “blue” to match BG.

And no, there’s no proof we have seen that a gun was used in the commission of the crime. It’s connection an LEO made believing they heard the girls say the word “gun” and then finding a bullet, I guess.

My own opinion is that if there is more than 1 person or someone that the girls know, they don’t even need a gun. But someone could have easily had one, Indiana has tons of guns. IMO

 

[grannygates]

If I bite the bullet and listen to a MS episode, will I learn what PM's motivation was to betray his friends by turning their private convos over to MS?

Do the MS episodes include any of his participation? If so, which one?
Any help would be very much appreciated.

I haven’t listened myself, but I believe the 3rd episode is the interview with PM.

 

[photographer4]

RSBM

I think anyone who has been getting their theories of the case from these people needs to reconsider their priors. The implication is that not even the defence itself really believes in the Odinist theory.

Something that has been boiling away here for a long time is whether RA would be better served by a generic alternate suspect theory (i.e. I'm innocent it was someone else) vs specific suspect (it was BH, PW and EF etc). The risk of the odinist approach is that there is apparently more evidence against RA than against the alternates who have alibis etc.

Now we have hard evidence that the strategy is to amplify conspiracies around the case in the hope of contaminating the jury. That strikes me as very risky for the defendant vs focussing on raising doubt by attacking the evidence and being more neutral on who did it.

MOO

I see the concern here. I’m not impressed with the way B&R have seemed to go about things but legally, can anything be done?

I imagine not really because if so, shouldn’t murder sheets have brought about action via some other means?

Are** there other means? I’m not a lawyer and genuinely asking.

 

[photographer4]

Some want to ignore as it doesn't support their guy

To be clear, I wouldn’t listen no matter which side it was about. I did try to. I made it 24 mins in but I just can’t sit through it. Hopefully transcripts out soon.

 

[vinayd]

Gag order listed below. I am not sure if private messages count as "Means of Public Communication". When I google that social media is not listed. However, there may be an issue since Cara Weineke & her husband Joel wrote the 3/18/2024 "Motion for Parity in Resources, To Reconsider the Denial of Anticipated Defense Costs, or to Exclude Evidence".

She then made a tweet about it on 3/24 & 3/29 as reported in Episode 2 of the MS.

01/23/2023

Order Issued Court now grants in whole the State's Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication. Court takes Defendant's Supplemental Motion for Discovery and Request for Rule 404 and 405 Evidence under advisement. Court acknowledges the Defendant's Motion for Change of Venue and agrees a jury could not be obtained in Carroll County. Pursuant to I.C. 35-36-6-11, a jury will be selected from another county and transported to Carroll County for trial. Counsel to notify the Court within a week if they can agree to a specific county.

 

[grannygates]

Gag order listed below. I am not sure if private messages count as "Means of Public Communication". When I google that social media is not listed. However, there may be an issue since Cara Weineke & her husband Joel wrote the 3/18/2024 "Motion for Parity in Resources, To Reconsider the Denial of Anticipated Defense Costs, or to Exclude Evidence".

She then made a tweet about it on 3/24 & 3/29 as reported in Episode 2 of the MS.

01/23/2023

Order Issued Court now grants in whole the State's Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication. Court takes Defendant's Supplemental Motion for Discovery and Request for Rule 404 and 405 Evidence under advisement. Court acknowledges the Defendant's Motion for Change of Venue and agrees a jury could not be obtained in Carroll County. Pursuant to I.C. 35-36-6-11, a jury will be selected from another county and transported to Carroll County for trial. Counsel to notify the Court within a week if they can agree to a specific county.

What about purloining “the defense teams” private conversations and publishing them on your podcast? That seems to be far closer to violating the gag order as written than talking in a private group chat IMO.