Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #188

[sunshineray]

Well, not if they're not available, they won't be. Of course, they could be helpful for a SODDI defense, but we'll never know.

IMO MOO

Who's trial is it?

 

[ClearAhead]

Well, not if they're not available, they won't be. Of course, they could be helpful for a SODDI defense, but we'll never know.

IMO MOO

What would further a SODDI defense aside from an outright confession? I doubt a jury would believe LE ignored a confession during an interview in those early days, then waited more than six years for RA’s incriminating interview to arise from the dust. Successful SODDI defenses usually must pass the logical test. MOO

 

[gremlin444]

I believe in the prior thread I saw some people asking about Aine Cane of the The Murder Sheet's journalistic credentials:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/%C3%A1ine-cain/

6 years at Business Insider, ending up as a Senior Retail Reporter. Looking through article titles, she definitely did do investigative pieces.

 

[grannygates]

The idea of discovery is handing over the entire case so that the defense has the exact same information as the prosecution. The prosecution doesn’t get to decide what parts to share and what to withhold. Having huge chunks of the case deleted, missing or not handed over is a big deal in a fair trial/due process sense. Isn’t that why the Baldwin case got dismissed ? Because the prosecutors withheld discovery ?

I reread the motion in limine and Nick just asks for defense not to bring up prior bad acts by his witnesses and the way discovery was labeled. It doesn’t say anything about all the missing evidence, unless that’s the prior bad acts?

I wonder if there is a standard practice for the court to handle the jury becoming aware of destruction of evidence/missing/withheld etc evidence ? It doesn’t seem right the jury won’t get to know. What’s stopping every prosecutor from just destroying everything exculpatory?

all MOO

 

[grannygates]

What would further a SODDI defense aside from an outright confession? I doubt a jury would believe LE ignored a confession during an interview in those early days, then waited more than six years for RA’s incriminating interview to arise from the dust. Successful SODDI defenses usually must pass the logical test. MOO

But they did.. and the FBI agent attested to it under oath during his deposition. They informed UC of the confession and asked for a search warrant for the guy and their request was ignored. IMO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I believe in the prior thread I saw some people asking about Aine Cane of the The Murder Sheet's journalistic credentials:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/%C3%A1ine-cain/

6 years at Business Insider, ending up as a Senior Retail Reporter. Looking through article titles, she definitely did do investigative pieces.

Áine Cain - Business Insider

Áine Cain is a senior reporter for Business Insider, covering Walmart, Target, Costco, Home Depot, Lowe's, and Ikea. She writes about the changing nature of the retail business, the labor issues affecting retail employees, and the trends that consumers should know about. Occasionally, she'll...

www.businessinsider.com

 

[sunshineray]

What would further a SODDI defense aside from an outright confession? I doubt a jury would believe LE ignored a confession during an interview in those early days, then waited more than six years for RA’s incriminating interview to arise from the dust. Successful SODDI defenses usually must pass the logical test. MOO

Correct and IMO this D's SODDI defense is anything but logical. Even Click admitting that nobody in LE believes it and that the D has "twisted facts for sensationalism". That about says it all in a nutshell...BUT the new three-part MS podcasts flesh that out and leaves no doubt that Click's words were actually mild in definition as to what this D has done to twist things for sensationalism. It's appalling and it should be to any logical and truth-seeking person. All just my opinion of course.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox59.com/indiana-news/attorneys-for-richard-allen-want-client-moved-to-different-facility-lay-out-alternative-murder-theory/amp/

https://murdersheetpodcast.com/

 

[WildHuncher]

How does a gag order impact what they'd put in court filings?

If you’re ignoring it, it doesn’t. If you respect it, you must avoid making any revelations of case details unnecessary to the point of your filing. IANAL, MOO, etc.

 

[TTF14]

Áine Cain - Business Insider

Áine Cain is a senior reporter for Business Insider, covering Walmart, Target, Costco, Home Depot, Lowe's, and Ikea. She writes about the changing nature of the retail business, the labor issues affecting retail employees, and the trends that consumers should know about. Occasionally, she'll...

www.businessinsider.com

I do love a good inside Costco scoop!

 

[sunshineray]

Áine Cain - Business Insider

Áine Cain is a senior reporter for Business Insider, covering Walmart, Target, Costco, Home Depot, Lowe's, and Ikea. She writes about the changing nature of the retail business, the labor issues affecting retail employees, and the trends that consumers should know about. Occasionally, she'll...

www.businessinsider.com

She has mentioned this on her podcasts. I don't see it as a problem. It's an honest job and not the only things she writes. Is this suppose to mean something nefarious?

 

[sunshineray]

How does a gag order impact what they'd put in court filings?

Well when you knowingly take ex parte material, under seal stuff, not to be publicized and put it in filings/motions that are accessible to the public, is that not skulduggery? IMO it is.

 

[ClearAhead]

But they did.. and the FBI agent attested to it under oath during his deposition. They informed UC of the confession and asked for a search warrant for the guy and their request was ignored. IMO

So if EF’s ‘confession’ to his sister is hidden exculpatory evidence the why hasn’t the D filed a Motion to Dismiss on that basis?

 

[sunshineray]

The idea of discovery is handing over the entire case so that the defense has the exact same information as the prosecution. The prosecution doesn’t get to decide what parts to share and what to withhold. Having huge chunks of the case deleted, missing or not handed over is a big deal in a fair trial/due process sense. Isn’t that why the Baldwin case got dismissed ? Because the prosecutors withheld discovery ?

I reread the motion in limine and Nick just asks for defense not to bring up prior bad acts by his witnesses and the way discovery was labeled. It doesn’t say anything about all the missing evidence, unless that’s the prior bad acts?

I wonder if there is a standard practice for the court to handle the jury becoming aware of destruction of evidence/missing/withheld etc evidence ? It doesn’t seem right the jury won’t get to know. What’s stopping every prosecutor from just destroying everything exculpatory?

all MOO

When the things destroyed were not intentional done, there are written reports made of the interviews and those things were investigated and not of any substantive to the case against Richard Allen, the man on trial...why would a jury need to consider such things?

 

[sunshineray]

But they did.. and the FBI agent attested to it under oath during his deposition. They informed UC of the confession and asked for a search warrant for the guy and their request was ignored. IMO

What FBI guy was this?

 

[grannygates]

So if EF’s ‘confession’ to his sister is hidden exculpatory evidence the why hasn’t the D filed a Motion to Dismiss on that basis?

It’s not hidden anymore because Click came forward with it. The prosecution says even if they withhold or delete something, if the defense finds it elsewhere, the prosecution shouldn’t get in trouble for it because it’s not missing anymore.

They did file a motion to dismiss based on all the BH stuff. I wonder if they’d have any better luck pursuing motion to dismiss with Gull based on EF because they didn’t get any further than the request for the search warrant. I’m sure it would be the standard LE response “we cleared him” with nothing proving how he’s cleared and then rubber stamp, denied without hearing. MOO

 

[sunshineray]

So if EF’s ‘confession’ to his sister is hidden exculpatory evidence the why hasn’t the D filed a Motion to Dismiss on that basis?

Probably because they relalize it's nonsense? Just a guess, idk.

 

[sunshineray]

It’s not hidden anymore because Click came forward with it. The prosecution says even if they withhold or delete something, if the defense finds it elsewhere, the prosecution shouldn’t get in trouble for it because it’s not missing anymore.

They did file a motion to dismiss based on all the BH stuff. I wonder if they’d have any better luck pursuing motion to dismiss with Gull based on EF because they didn’t get any further than the request for the search warrant. I’m sure it would be the standard LE response “we cleared him” with nothing proving how he’s cleared and then rubber stamp, denied without hearing. MOO

I believe, IIRC, that the prosecution said it was not exculpatory? There are many, many dead ends in an investigation that go nowhere. It amazes that even though Click has said nobody in LE (I would think that means him too) believe the girls were murdered by ritual (Odinists) sacrifice and that RA's defense "twists facts for sensationalism" he is somehow considered the end all with "his" un-factual report. I still wonder where's ISP Murphy, actually one of the people on that FBI Joint Task Force, opinion in that report's validity now in 2024, after RA's arrest. He's under a gag order and honoring it it seems? JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

It’s not hidden anymore because Click came forward with it. The prosecution says even if they withhold or delete something, if the defense finds it elsewhere, the prosecution shouldn’t get in trouble for it because it’s not missing anymore.

They did file a motion to dismiss based on all the BH stuff. I wonder if they’d have any better luck pursuing motion to dismiss with Gull based on EF because they didn’t get any further than the request for the search warrant. I’m sure it would be the standard LE response “we cleared him” with nothing proving how he’s cleared and then rubber stamp, denied without hearing. MOO

It’s fascinating how some followers of this case are far more interested in a SODDI than knowing what evidence the P has on the person actually accused of the double murder of Libby and Abby, specifically RA.

I’d be certain the D knows how and why EF was cleared. Better the public doesn’t know so allegations of incompetent police work can continue.

What you write is a good example.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

It’s fascinating how some followers of this case are far more interested in a SODDI than knowing what evidence the P has on the person actually accused of the double murder of Libby and Abby, specifically RA.

I’d be certain the D knows how and why EF was cleared. Better the public doesn’t know so allegations of incompetent police work can continue.

What you write is a good example.

MOO

We already heard that the two main investigators testified in their depositions that there is no direct evidence linking RA to the crime or the victims. No fingerprints, DNA, cell phone, digital data. I’m not sure what else there could be?

Based on the discussion of experts and information in court filings, the prosecutions case appears to be tool mark ballistics on a bullet with IMO no chain of custody and “confessions” after a year in solitary confinement. I’m not sure how they’ll be handling the eyewitnesses since IMO their recorded statements apparently don’t match what the PCA says?

IMO I reaaaallyyy don’t think that Nick would have some juicy piece of evidence that just nails RA and not have it come out in filings somehow. We all know about the confessions because of court filings.

My interest in the SODDI is more about the overwhelming amount of loose ends and puzzling decisions by the UC that I can’t be confident in any of the work they did. I want the right person to be convicted of this crime and pay for what they did. Not just any person.

All MOO

 

[renah]

Are there transcripts of these podcast episodes and, if so, would someone please drop a link?

I am not gullible. I am not a conspiracy fantacist. I have never been blindly 100% convinced of RA's innocence.

And I have NEVER forgotten about the two beautiful girls who lost their lives in violence and terror, nor their families' heartbreak. It. Is. Unfathomable.

The insinuation that I am any of those things has been hurtful, maddening, and triggering.

I've felt (and still do) that the evidence we know of is very weak. Ambiguous blurry figure wearing the clothes of 99% of his demographic, statements that there is no linked DNA or other "hard" linking evidence, misquoted witness statements being used in the charging documents.. I work in mental health, I've done extensive reading on the ramifications of isolation, and I can see how RA's false confessions would be an absolutely predictable result of his current situation; so as of right now, those confessions are a non-factor in my opinion of guilt vs innocence. Then we have the unprecedented fact that he is being held before trial in a state prison and on top of that has been subjected to certain hardships which according to sworn statements from professionals OTHER than AB & RZ are highly unusual of course creates further questions in my mind.


I've felt that some Delphi officials are either incompetent at best and corrupt at worst, historically in this region there exists a Midwestern small town type of good ole boy mentality, with lots of overgrown & self-important egos. Big fish in small pond: No official would ever publicly admit to being wrong and collectively they will - without question- support their own. *IMOO* Look it up for yourselves.

AB is flamboyant and unconventional. I like unconventional. I admire unconventional. It's not always a bad thing! And if everything I feel above is true, unconventional might be the only way to win a case that's already been stacked against your client.

But as I first said, I am not blind. I really hope there are transcripts-- I can read a heck of a lot faster than those folk can talk. If not uggghhhh please send me the podcast links.