Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #189

[TTF14]

The timeline is proven.

How so?

 

[grannygates]

Outside of BB believing that she sees the girls while she is walking back from the bridge, has any other person on the trial said they saw the girls? MOO There are many more people on the trials that aren’t mentioned in the PCA.

Sadly, wrongful convictions happen all the time. With all the “coincidences” in this case, it’s hard to trust the source that appears to be the cause of said “coincidences”. Then there’s the issue with similar sources on either side. If I’m supposed to trust a cop just because they’re a cop, why would I pick ISP over the FBI? If I’m supposed to not believing the inmate who reported the jail conditions, why would I believe the inmates telling me about confessions?

Eyewitness reports and false confessions are the leading causes of wrongful conviction. We have both options in this case. That’s why so many people are adamant that real evidence should be presented in order to convict someone. Scientific evidence, digital data etc. Items that don’t rely on human opinion.

All MOO

Eyewitness misidentification is one of the most common factors in cases of wrongful conviction. Nationally, 28% of all exonerations involve mistaken eyewitness identification
False confessions have been a factor in 12% of proven wrongful convictions nationwide. While it may seem difficult to understand why someone would confess to a crime they did not commit, there are many reasons that this can happen. For instance, physical intimidation or threats of violence by law enforcement can lead a suspect to falsely confess.

Why Do Wrongful Convictions Happen? | Korey Wise Innocence Project | University of Colorado Boulder

www.colorado.edu

 

[Spartygirl]

How so?

It is in the PCA

 

[gremlin444]

Unless their statements are part of the evidence the was "lost." That's what I mean.

IMO MOO

I confess to being confused by this. Can anyone point me to any statements in filings by the defense, the prosecution, or anything in reliable MSM that talks SPECIFICALLY about written documentation of interviews or written witness statements being lost? I've only been able to find the information about the video interviews being lost.

I would think if that if that written documentation of major witness interviews was lost, we would have seen the defense putting that fact into court filings long before now. I'm sure I've probably missed a filing here or there, so if anyone can point me to any allegations/statements by the defense or the state about WRITTEN documentation being lost, I'd love to go read it. TIA.

 

[justtrish]

Outside of BB believing that she sees the girls while she is walking back from the bridge, has any other person on the trial said they saw the girls? MOO There are many more people on the trials that aren’t mentioned in the PCA.

Sadly, wrongful convictions happen all the time. With all the “coincidences” in this case, it’s hard to trust the source that appears to be the cause of said “coincidences”. Then there’s the issue with similar sources on either side. If I’m supposed to trust a cop just because they’re a cop, why would I pick ISP over the FBI? If I’m supposed to not believing the inmate who reported the jail conditions, why would I believe the inmates telling me about confessions?

Eyewitness reports and false confessions are the leading causes of wrongful conviction. We have both options in this case. That’s why so many people are adamant that real evidence should be presented in order to convict someone. Scientific evidence, digital data etc. Items that don’t rely on human opinion.

All MOO

Eyewitness misidentification is one of the most common factors in cases of wrongful conviction. Nationally, 28% of all exonerations involve mistaken eyewitness identification
False confessions have been a factor in 12% of proven wrongful convictions nationwide. While it may seem difficult to understand why someone would confess to a crime they did not commit, there are many reasons that this can happen. For instance, physical intimidation or threats of violence by law enforcement can lead a suspect to falsely confess.

Why Do Wrongful Convictions Happen? | Korey Wise Innocence Project | University of Colorado Boulder

www.colorado.edu

I believe the only people on that section of the trail (from that parking area toward Monon high bridge) was BB and the man she saw out on the bridge, then Abby and Libby. We have no reason not to believe BB when she says she saw a man on the high bridge and then she turns to walk back toward her car and she passes Abby and Libby. I think it's nearly 100% that she actually saw Abby and Libby because her arrival to the parking area is time stamped due to the video cameras. Abby and Libby arriving is also time stamped due to video cameras. BB's time leaving is time stamped due to the video of her car leaving. We have an exact time that Libby takes a photo of Abby on the Monon High bridge. I think those things line up to show that the girls passed BB and then went to the bridge to take the photo and the timing all works.

If the only people BB sees going to the bridge is the man on the bridge and the only people she sees leaving the bridge and going to her car are Abby and Libby, then we know Libby takes that photo and starts recording at almost the exact time BB is leaving in her car.. so there wouldn't be any other people walking at that specific time to see Abby and Libby or BB would have also observed them as she walked to her car.

I guess someone could have been running down the trail and just missed BB as she went to the parking lot, but the man on the bridge doesn't look like much of a runner to me so I'd say the only people that would have seen Abby and Libby, would also have been seen by BB. She had no reason to lie when she gave a statement so I feel confident enough to say nobody else was there at that time.

 

[MiniMoo]

That too but for me, the main take away was more how co-witnesses adopt what their co-witnesses tell them as their own recollections when they discuss things amongst themselves, especially before giving their statements to police. So if the three witnesses went on with their walk, and they spoke about the guy who wore X clothes and was Yay tall, and who didn’t say hello or whatever they said, then each thing said by one of them can and is likely to become part of the other’s collective memory, even if that isn’t how they actually saw it. The research on it is quite interesting and very compelling imo. Often times, witness statements are a huge factor that lead to wrongful convictions. Some stats say that witness statements factor into over 70% of wrongful convictions. Causes of Wrongful Convictions - Innocence Canada.

I’ve read other stats that suggest they factor into well over 75% percent of wrongful convictions. So to me, witness statements are good and helpful but can be also very flawed and dangerous!

Sometimes it can be who writes the witness statements as well getting it wrong.

Years ago, I unexpectedly witnessed these lounge windows (large arch style ones) being shattered from the inside out in the middle of a not sure what.

The apartment was about 3 stories off the ground, well lit up from the inside as it was dark outside and the people inside could be heard arguing prior to the damage being done, but not really anything else.

I do remember this umbrella sticking out like a sore thumb after the last window was smashed in only as there were curtains I couldn't see who was responsible for the damage or who had been holding the umbrella.

I was the only witness (outside).

Anyhow, about two weeks after it happened, the young police officer (I remember his face quite clearly) who wrote down my statement came to see me to ask if I would attend court as a witness even though he couldn't say if I'd be called up or not, also, he wanted to make sure my witness statement was in order.

It wasn't!

I told him straight that he had written parts incorrectly and that I would write it again for him instead because what he had written didn't sit right with me at all. Like things in the wrong order and Im sure he was trying to make out I had seen who was inside whereas I hadn't. Silhouettes maybe, but no one's actual face.

Point is - sometimes Witness Statements can be incorrectly written up as well by whoever is doing it.

Most of the time, however, I'm sure they aren't!

 

[mrjitty]

i wonder if Murdersheet can file these leaks into the case for the Judge?

Law enforcement seems the wrong move here. MH may be in contempt.

 

[TTF14]

i wonder if Murdersheet can file these leaks into the case for the Judge?

Law enforcement seems the wrong move here. MH may be in contempt.

Maybe they did by form of a letter to the court? Maybe that's who the "KMS" correspondence was from we can't read?

 

[photographer4]

DD's notes are informal. His notes led to believe that he didn't know about the timeline and the importance of the girls. Which is normal because it was in the early days, probably LE were still worked in a timeline. So probably he was just asking very simple questions like at the time people were there in the trails and what people saw. He tought he was made a recording but probably didn't. Which is my greatest regret about the case: I'm sure if we have a recording of that, RA would be completely screwed. But anyway, RA boxed himself with his own words. DD know it was girls because RA said and even describe one of them. The girls also describe the same interacion than RA. He boxed himself.

I hear ya, but him saying he saw the girls, and them having seen him does NOT necessarily make him a killer. It makes him a man, who at a minimum was at the trails and on the bridge that day who saw a couple of kids. I’m really interested to see the story unfold to learn how they tied him specifically to the crime.

 

[photographer4]

The problem I have is, even if I try and give him the benefit of doubt, then I come back to thinking he is a liar and therefore guilty of this crime.

His timeline, his original one, matches up with the young teenage girls and then the Bridge witness who places him on platform 1, which he admits he went out to and stood there, and we know she saw the girls walk past.

So we can place the girls on his direct path, so I have options

A - He comes off the bridge and walks to find this bench and the girls walk past
B- He is still on the bridge as the girls walk on to it

Whichever option I look at, he must have seen them so therefore, he is lying, and he would only do that because he is involved.

MOOOOOOOO

It is hard to know if he straight up lied that he didn’t see the kids or if he just didn’t register there presence really for some reason. Maybe he was engaged with something else. Maybe his mind was focused on something else. There was a great video on YouTube about this:

For those who haven’t seen it before, I’d be curious to know how well you scored on it?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Outside of BB believing that she sees the girls while she is walking back from the bridge, has any other person on the trial said they saw the girls? MOO There are many more people on the trials that aren’t mentioned in the PCA.

Sadly, wrongful convictions happen all the time. With all the “coincidences” in this case, it’s hard to trust the source that appears to be the cause of said “coincidences”. Then there’s the issue with similar sources on either side. If I’m supposed to trust a cop just because they’re a cop, why would I pick ISP over the FBI? If I’m supposed to not believing the inmate who reported the jail conditions, why would I believe the inmates telling me about confessions?

Eyewitness reports and false confessions are the leading causes of wrongful conviction. We have both options in this case. That’s why so many people are adamant that real evidence should be presented in order to convict someone. Scientific evidence, digital data etc. Items that don’t rely on human opinion.

All MOO

Eyewitness misidentification is one of the most common factors in cases of wrongful conviction. Nationally, 28% of all exonerations involve mistaken eyewitness identification
False confessions have been a factor in 12% of proven wrongful convictions nationwide. While it may seem difficult to understand why someone would confess to a crime they did not commit, there are many reasons that this can happen. For instance, physical intimidation or threats of violence by law enforcement can lead a suspect to falsely confess.

Why Do Wrongful Convictions Happen? | Korey Wise Innocence Project | University of Colorado Boulder

www.colorado.edu

Thank goodness there's going to be far more information and true facts coming in from the State during the trial, which is when it should happen, instead of being sneakily piece milled in Motions, Filings and Hail Mary'd around the gag order.

Guys do your jobs. Get RA to trial and let a jury of his peers decide his innocence or guilt. It's way beyond time and since he's factually innocent (their words) it should be easy for R&B to do. 'Should' being the key word here.

JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

MurderSheet has a new episode on alleged leaks from the defence investigator MH to 'internet cranks'

The Delphi Murders: Defense Investigator Matthew Hoffman, Phone Pings, and Youtube Leaks: "If Something Happens to Us"

Today, we will delve more into the relationship between Richard Allen's defense investigator Matthew Hoffman and internet cranks. Specifically, we unpack...

murdersheetpodcast.com

Honestly, I hope that JG, NMcL and anyone that has been targeted by this Dupe Process Gang get a hold of this information ASAP.

If the receipts are there, I would hope that it's dealt with and that anyone that follows the case pays close attention.

It is disgraceful.

JMO