Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #189

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ClearAhead said:
Rights not being read and suppression of statements are two different arguments. If RA didn’t say anything incriminating it wouldn’t matter if his rights were read before the interview even started. We just don’t know the “content of that conservations” and the D can’t be expected to publicly announce it at the same time as wanting it suppressed. Same goes for the confessions to his wife and mother, we don’t know what he said to them either. Lots we don’t know MOO

“The second motion to suppress deals with statements made to ISP just before he was arrested.…..When they got to the station, Allen had a conversation with ISP officer Jerry Holeman. The defense wants the content of that conversation kept out.”
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Pretty sure all of this was discussed in detail here when this document first dropped. I was just refreshing your memory about it since you didn't recall. Maybe I misunderstood your post, though.
 
TTF14 said:
Pretty sure all of this was discussed in detail here when this document first dropped. I was just refreshing your memory about it since you didn't recall. Maybe I misunderstood your post, though.
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Miranda isn’t required unless a suspect is being arrested, RA was brought in for further questioning. Watched a video but not sure if it can be linked that suggests the suppression of statements was filed by the D because RA admitted to Holeman the gun was his but denies the round found was from his gun. That becomes a concern for the defense as the denial can be compared to DNA found at a crime scene “don’t know how it got there”.
 
ClearAhead said:
Miranda isn’t required unless a suspect is being arrested, RA was brought in for further questioning. Watched a video but not sure if it can be linked that suggests the suppression of statements was filed by the D because RA admitted to Holeman the gun was his but denies the round found was from his gun. That becomes a concern for the defense as the denial can be compared to DNA found at a crime scene “don’t know how it got there”.
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Custodial interrogation is the words you are looking for, not "being arrested." Miranda rights attach when a custodial interrogation begins.

See: custodial interrogation
 
TTF14 said:
This was the one where RA wasn't read his rights. Also the one where Holeman said, "I know you did it and I'm gonna prove it!" (paraphrasing) I think it might have also been when RA said to keep his wife out of it or something?

IMO MOO
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Link please
 
Gull will hold hearings in Carroll County on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. She’s scheduled to hear multiple motions over the course of the three days:
  • State’s Motion for Admissibility (filed May 6, 2024)
  • Defense Motion to Suppress Second Statement (filed April 15, 2024)
  • State’s Objection to Defendant’s Motion to Suppress (filed April 15, 2024)
  • Defendant’s Motion to Compel and Motion for Sanctions (filed April 23, 2024)
  • Defendant’s Motion to Vacate Safekeeping Order (filed May 13, 2024)
  • State’s Motion in Limine (filed April 28, 2024)
  • Defense Response to State’s Motion in Limine
  • Defendant’s Second Motion to Dismiss (filed May 20, 2024)
  • State’s Response to Defendant’s Second Motion to Dismiss (filed June 9, 2024)
(more at link)

 
grannygates said:
Where are the footprints from RAs size 6.5 or 7 boots ? That’s a distinctive shoe size for a man. In the muddy earth, the impression we’ve got is that the surrounding forest and crime scene was totally trampled by hundreds of searchers and footprints were likely unusable as they have no idea who was friendly or killer. All MOO
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Do we know that RA'S footprints weren't there?
I am betting that they were.
If there had been multiple sets, excluding the killers and the 2 girls, we would have heard that multiple people were involved, in my opinion.
 
AugustWest said:
Custodial interrogation is the words you are looking for, not "being arrested." Miranda rights attach when a custodial interrogation begins.

See: custodial interrogation
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I think the issue is RA acknowledgement of his gun during that conversation occurred prior to RA’s interview. Instead of being concerned over his reputation showered with denials should've just kept his mouth shut. MOO
 
Morning article from IndyStar. grrrrr I've already emailed the article author about this statement.
Once and for all - molesting can occur and NOT be visible on an autopsy.

"One of those motions addressed whether statements Allen allegedly made to inmates and prison guards, claiming he killed Abby and Libby, should be suppressed. He's also made statements about molesting the girls, although autopsy results show that did not happen."

www.indystar.com

Hearings in Delphi murder case could shape how Richard Allen's trial plays out in October

Richard Allen is facing four murder charges for the 2017 deaths of Abigail 'Abby' Williams and Liberty 'Libby' German.
www.indystar.com
 
ClearAhead said:
I think the issue is RA acknowledgement of his gun during that conversation occurred prior to RA’s interview. Instead of being concerned over his reputation showered with denials should've just kept his mouth shut. MOO
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I'm not talking about the facts of his interrogation. I'm simply stating that custodial interrogation is the standard, not arrest. A non-custodial interrogation can morph into a custodial one at some point, and the court must determine at what point this occurred. If he was not free to leave, then it was custodial, and therefore Miranda warnings must be given. If not, suppression is the remedy.
 
katydid23 said:
When investigators were going through those phone numbers, they had no idea about RA. So they did not exclude everyone not pointing towards RA----they investigated each number to see who they were, where they were and what they saw.
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Yes and this is what makes this trial vastly different than the recent KR trial. She was blamed within hours and the police stopped investigating other potential suspects.
This case is the opposite of a frame job IMO

All my opinion
 
Lunch break takeaways in Delphi … 1/

Defense team argued that arrangements have been made to move Richard Allen from Wabash Valley prison to Cass County Jail, modifying safekeeping order from Nov 2022. Carroll sheriff says he’s ok w/that, as long as Allen isn’t returned to jail in Delphi. 2/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1818324698091925820
 
legalmomma said:
Lunch break takeaways in Delphi … 1/

Defense team argued that arrangements have been made to move Richard Allen from Wabash Valley prison to Cass County Jail, modifying safekeeping order from Nov 2022. Carroll sheriff says he’s ok w/that, as long as Allen isn’t returned to jail in Delphi. 2/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1818324698091925820
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He never should have been in prison in the first place, but why don't they want him in Delphi? Are they still saying they can't transport him to and from his hearings?
 
AugustWest said:
I'm not talking about the facts of his interrogation. I'm simply stating that custodial interrogation is the standard, not arrest. A non-custodial interrogation can morph into a custodial one at some point, and the court must determine at what point this occurred. If he was not free to leave, then it was custodial, and therefore Miranda warnings must be given. If not, suppression is the remedy.
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I thought RA and KA were asked to come down to the station for interviews and they willingly went? Doesn't sound custodial to me. MO
 
sunshineray said:
I thought RA and KA were asked to come down to the station for interviews and they willingly went? Doesn't sound custodial to me. MO
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Voluntary questioning can become custodial interrogations. I offered a link earlier to what constitutes a custodial interrogation, and it explains it well, as do the other links it includes.

Here it is again: custodial interrogation
 
Judge Gull takes safekeeping motion under advisement. 3/

https://x.com/davebangert


Next: Defense asks to compel prosecutor to hand over evidence w/better organization of 26TB of case files. Prosecutor says he’s giving Allen’s attys what they need, even ‘spoon feeding’ them, but they want things prosecutors don’t have. Judge takes that under advisement, too 4/



After lunch schedule: A motion from Allen’s team to dismiss. Later this week: motions to suppress statements Allen made, prosecution’s list of words and phrases that should be banned from the trial in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German. 5/






Of note: This morning’s hearing, scheduled to start at 10 am, was delayed until after 11 am. Judge Gull said she didn’t anticipate the construction between Fort Wayne and Delphi. Court session resumes at 1:30 pm.Also of note: No phones/cameras/electronics at all allowed 6/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1818327338393726996
 
legalmomma said:
prosecution’s list of words and phrases that should be banned from the trial in the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German.
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RSBM

Has anyone seen this before in trials they have followed? I don't recall it, but there aren't a lot of trials where I've followed all of the pre-trial hearings.

Just wondering how usual or unusual it is to request words and phrases be banned.
 
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