Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[MiniMoo]

I think the evidence so far points to this crime being carried out by RA alone. I also think the crime scene can be described as ritualistic - but not necessarily Odinist type ritualistic. To me the re-dressing is a stronger part of “ritualistic” than the stick formations and blood on tree, but I think everyone will interpret the crime scene in line with their own perspective.
I do really want to see the full arguments around timeline by both sides. I don’t know what D are arguing around timeline and don’t know the arguments around time of death. It is slightly possible to me that other parties could have accessed the crime scene through the cemetery but it’s a bit of a leap and I’d need more evidence than “ it could have happened”. To me even more of a stretch if it supposedly happened after people started searching for A &L. I think D have their work cut out trying to argue for this but I do want to hear it.
MOO

Why do you see the re-dressing part as ritualistic? Interesting perspective.

For me, the redressing isn't ritualistic like how some may view it as yourself, but because the perpetrator (believe it or not) cared about Abby and didn't want her to be humiliated.

I would like to understand it a bit better as to why it would be seen as ritualistic though.

 

[Ravenmoon]

You can Google what the expert has said in her testimony and get pages of results confirming what she says.

I also gave you the recommendation of watching a pagan blot if you want to know what it looks like because you’re questioning her description of it.

This information is all on the Internet if you are actually interested in learning about it. it is free for us to consume if we choose.

MOO

I am Pagan.
There are a huge bunch of us that are Vegetarian if not Vegan.
Pagan is an umbrella term for a LOT of different spiritual journeys.

Pagan blots are basically antiquated ceremonies, although a small number of groups will use an animal to offer.

They do not and have not sacrificed any human for hundreds of years.

Amber Holder testified today that they would never sacrifice people, let alone children.

Please don't paint pagans as demonic, hateful people.

We love nature and protect it.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Did he come back at 4am or how do you think the cellphone was powered on again?

I have ZERO knowledge of cellphones, sorry.

 

[grannygates]

I have ZERO knowledge of cellphones, sorry.

Oh! Sorry! Libby‘s cell phone was turned off or ran out of juice and then it was powered back on at around 4 AM and a flood of text messages (14) came in at that time. The idea being that I guess the killer turned it back on? I was wondering if you thought that maybe he took it with him and then returned it or what you thought about that connection? MOO

 

[katydid23]

You can watch videos on YouTube of Pagan Blots and get to visualize a lot of what she is explaining. There are a lot of creators who will explain and show you the whole experience start to finish.

I know about Pagan Blots. But they are NOT about butchering little girls.

They typically 'sacrifice' an animal that they will feast upon, like a pig or goat or calf.But many times it is just symbolic sacrifice, like with food brought or candles lit and drums and dancing. IMO

 

[Andieinsyd]

Why do you see the re-dressing part as ritualistic? Interesting perspective.

For me, the redressing isn't ritualistic like how some may view it as yourself, but because the perpetrator (believe it or not) cared about Abby and didn't want her to be humiliated.

I would like to understand it a bit better as to why it would be seen as ritualistic though.

I am similar but more around the perpetrator “needing” to carry out some sort of ritual after the murders, not so much in a caring way but in an appeasing way. Help assuage his guilt? Could be way off, but the two bra thing has always puzzled me, and perhaps cleaning Abby. Heartbreaking.

 

[grannygates]

I am Pagan.
There are a huge bunch of us that are Vegetarian if not Vegan.
Pagan is an umbrella term for a LOT of different spiritual journeys.

Pagan blots are basically antiquated ceremonies, although a small number of groups will use an animal to offer.

They do not and have not sacrificed any human for hundreds of years.

Amber Holder testified today that they would never sacrifice people, let alone children.

Please don't paint pagans as demonic, hateful people.

We love nature and protect it.

I’m not sure if you are directing that at me? But if you watch a pagan blot on YouTube, they’re definitely not sacrificing humans? I’m sure that’s against TOS.

The OP was questioning very basic attributes that could be described in detail by actual Pagans, so I suggested if she genuinely wanted to learn about blots, that she could get her information from actual pagans who make videos to share and explain to others.

I assumed we all knew at this point what “group” we are talking about here. The Professor identified this crime scene as an attempt by odin fanboys. The expert today testified that odinism has been hijacked by white nationalists. We also know them by the name Vindlanders. So no one is saying that “Pagans” are doing anything wrong. The 3rd party suspects are a group of known identified men, not a religion.

All MOO.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Oh! Sorry! Libby‘s cell phone was turned off or ran out of juice and then it was powered back on at around 4 AM and a flood of text messages (14) came in at that time. The idea being that I guess the killer turned it back on? I was wondering if you thought that maybe he took it with him and then returned it or what you thought about that connection? MOO

I have heard about the phone turning on in the morning hours, but I honestly haven't seen anything documented about it.

Is it a fact that it totally powered down? Like, it went dead? Do we have documentation?

I don't have a theory because I figured it was rumor.

I also heard that it just pinged and I am sorry to say that I simply don't have much knowledge on the way cellphones work, or if a ping is the same thing as it being powered on.

This is the very first time I am hearing about 14 texts being delivered at 4 AM.

I also "think" that iPhones and androids work differently. I recently had a friend ( who always has the latest version of iPhones) say that her current phone does turn on by itself and it drives her nuts. But, Libby's was an older phone, so...I don't know if that would work differently.

Sorry, like I said.. this is a big weak void of knowledge for me!

 

[grannygates]

I have heard about the phone turning on in the morning hours, but I honestly haven't seen anything documented about it.

Is it a fact that it totally powered down? Like, it went dead? Do we have documentation?

I don't have a theory because I figured it was rumor.

I also heard that it just pinged and I am sorry to say that I simply don't have much knowledge on the way cellphones work, or if a ping is the same thing as it being powered on.

This is the very first time I am hearing about 14 texts being delivered at 4 AM.

I also "think" that iPhones and androids work differently. I recently had a friend ( who always has the latest version of iPhones) say that her current phone does turn on by itself and it drives her nuts. But, Libby's was an older phone, so...I don't know if that would work differently.

Sorry, like I said.. this is a big weak void of knowledge for me!

That’s totally okay! There’s SO much coming out every single day it’s hard to keep up and process everything. But we will be able to catch up after the hearings are over!

 

[ClearAhead]

I am similar but more around the perpetrator “needing” to carry out some sort of ritual after the murders, not so much in a caring way but in an appeasing way. Help assuage his guilt? Could be way off, but the two bra thing has always puzzled me, and perhaps cleaning Abby. Heartbreaking.

A psychotic break from reality would explain it all just as well. MOO and JMO.

 

[ClearAhead]

That’s totally okay! There’s SO much coming out every single day it’s hard to keep up and process everything. But we will be able to catch up after the hearings are over!

What’s the source for 14 text messages?

I recall Libby’s cellphone made one lone ping at 4am which was the result of the cells of a dead cellphone battery regrouping and that’s a natural occurrence. That explanation seems reasonable to me. But none of us here are experts.

 

[katydid23]

I am similar but more around the perpetrator “needing” to carry out some sort of ritual after the murders, not so much in a caring way but in an appeasing way. Help assuage his guilt? Could be way off, but the two bra thing has always puzzled me, and perhaps cleaning Abby. Heartbreaking.

When middle school girls feel like they do not have as much as they'd like to have up top, they sometime wear two bras, to give them a little extra up there.

 

[grannygates]

What’s the source for 14 text messages?

I recall Libby’s cellphone made one lone ping at 4am which was the result of the cells of a dead cellphone battery regrouping and that’s a natural occurrence. That explanation seems reasonable to me. But none of us here are experts.

I never heard your explanation before ? The phone turned on and stayed on IIRC? We have only heard in court documents that the experts state the cellphone was powered on at 4:33am and reconnected with the tower. I have no idea what Nicks explaination was today. Turned off forever, never turned off, etc no clue.

However, the states cell phone expert Cecil, who has been mentioned before, was one of the experts who testified today regarding the text messages and cell phone activity, etc.

All MOO

 

[katydid23]

You can Google what the expert has said in her testimony and get pages of results confirming what she says.

I also gave you the recommendation of watching a pagan blot if you want to know what it looks like because you’re questioning her description of it.

This information is all on the Internet if you are actually interested in learning about it. it is free for us to consume if we choose.

MOO

Show me where she confirms that this was a known holiday where humans were sacrificed anytime this century.

I have read a lot about it, and have yet to find any examples of children, or adults for that matter, being ritually sacrificed by Odinists, on this known ritual holiday, in modern times. NONE.

If you have some valid, credible examples of Odinists sacrificing children in the woods on this known Valentine's Eve ritual holiday, please post them.

 

[katydid23]

Did he come back at 4am or how do you think the cellphone was powered on again?

Do you have evidence it was 'powered on' again. From what I understand, there are other ways that can happen, besides a person manually turning it back on.

 

[MiniMoo]

Has anybody heard if there was any testimony about whether or not any of the clothing was wet? With water. I don’t mean blood.

I was wondering about that for the last few days - no mention on the state of clothing being wet or not yet.

 

[iamshadow21]

A psychotic break from reality would explain it all just as well. MOO and JMO.

A psychotic break that conveniently only lasted for the duration of the killing and dissipated when the killer went back to his wife and kid and job later that day?

Killers who kill in the throes of psychosis tend to be found fairly quickly because they act out in public in ways that draw attention and they don't hide the crime very well.

The person who killed the girls did it, then slipped back into their life as if nothing had happened, without a ripple.

If RA did this, he smiled and sympathised and offered the family of the girl he butchered free printing of the materials for her funeral. He acted like every sane, sadistic killer who gets off on cozying up to the family of his victim.

MOO

 

[Vern]

The trustees take their jobs very serious. I linked an article many threads back about how some are traumatized by the things they see. Calling them “actors” is a stretch. People are on suicide watch and their fellow prisoners are there to provide a lifeline. Sounds humane.

Being a retired member of the Army, the same thing happens when we arrest a soldier and place them in cells. A duty watch is set up of fellow soldiers to sit outside their cell 24/7 as a safety monitor and to raise the alarm should the individual make any attempt at self harm.

In this particular case, we have RA whose own D-Team has stated, and used, mental health issues in their arguements. Had they used prison staff to do this, I've no doubt we'd be hearings cries about the State attempting psychological initmidation tactics 24/7. With some, you can't win for losing apparently.

Good on the State for ensuring that RA was monitored 24/7 while at potential rsk of self-harm. ZERO nefarious or unusual with that.

 

[grannygates]

If an expert is given a task of inspecting/deciphering the evidence or appearance at a crime scene and compiling a report for investigator or court based on their experience, education and professional background. Shouldn’t it be of just that? The crime scene you were tasked with?

The blood spatter expert, as an example, if they are tasked to inspect the F tree and offer suggestion as to how it may have occurred, should he also be considering anyones Facebook posts in his report..? Isn’t investigating or implicating suspects not his job at all..?

Wouldn’t an unwillingness to change your expert opinion of the crime scene and refusing to amend your report fit a specific subject due Facebook posts, etc, be a good thing and like completely standard practice everywhere outside of Carroll County.

All MOO

 

[MiniMoo]

I am similar but more around the perpetrator “needing” to carry out some sort of ritual after the murders, not so much in a caring way but in an appeasing way. Help assuage his guilt? Could be way off, but the two bra thing has always puzzled me, and perhaps cleaning Abby. Heartbreaking.

So, you think guilt.

I think maybe some regret more so than guilt, especially if that person set out to kill on purpose with one not being an intentional victim.

I don't think a lot of hardcore killers feel guilt because they don't view their victims as real people.

The way both girls were treated before and post death is different so there is a possibility one was collateral damage and the other not.

Not sure collateral damage is the right wording.

JMO