Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

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This would be a completely moot point if Rozzi or Baldwin had done their jobs and hand delivered this info to RA in person.

This was a big deal, not just a commissary order form. This is on the Defense, they couldn't be bothered to make the long, arduous drive and be inconvenienced, as they have stated many times, by the protocols to deliver it themselves.

Another example of their unprofessionalism.

MOO
You want the state to pay the defense lawyers hourly fee for an entire day for one of the lead lawyers to drive out to the prison (what was it eight hours, round trip?) to drop off discovery because the prison cannot be trusted to follow their own protocols surrounding inmate legal documents ?
 
So the autopsy did not indicate a time of death but Holeman says that YBG and OBG are now the same person (apparently he’s never thought that they were two people… let’s forget about CRIME CON2018 when he said that he thought that OBGwas MP searching..) so using those “same guy bridge guy” as bookends, he makes up a time of death with no actual evidence anywhere backing it. MOO IMO
There is no way IMO, that there isn't an estimated TOD by the ME. Just because we haven't seen it, doesn't mean it does not exist.

That is the problem with this Defense. They state things as facts, when we don't know both sides of the coin because the State has not released their information. This will come out in trial, as it should, I have no doubt. One of the biggest double homicide cases in recent history in Indiana, I would count on the medical examiner doing a thorough job.

moo
 
Everyone has their own little quirk of a case they get fixated on (who fed those McStay dogs :rolleyes:)

For me on this case, it's the darned footnote in the Franks about the rope that the defence claimed might have been used to hang the victim by her feet.

I always knew that was wild speculation, because her hair would be full of blood and there would be ligature marks around her ankles.

But now we know from yesterdays reporting that the defence always knew that was an outright fabrication ... and put it in there anyway.

Where did they get the idea? My guess is 'trusted consultant' MW's mining of social media.

IMO
I would say they got it from the reports from crime scene techs based on the testimony today.

Your first option of the saturation of hood, and not on any of the clothes or body and perhaps some indication of blood movement that would otherwise defy gravity. I don’t have an opinion myself. I think there’s a few options. But it makes you wonder.
 
There is no way IMO, that there isn't an estimated TOD by the ME. Just because we haven't seen it, doesn't mean it does not exist.

That is the problem with this Defense. They state things as facts, when we don't know both sides of the coin because the State has not released their information. This will come out in trial, as it should, I have no doubt. One of the biggest double homicide cases in recent history in Indiana, I would count on the medical examiner doing a thorough job.

moo

BIB

Which in turn is a huge issue for the client. When they write checks they can't cash, the Judge sees that.
 
There is no way IMO, that there isn't an estimated TOD by the ME. Just because we haven't seen it, doesn't mean it does not exist.

That is the problem with this Defense. They state things as facts, when we don't know both sides of the coin because the State has not released their information. This will come out in trial, as it should, I have no doubt. One of the biggest double homicide cases in recent history in Indiana, I would count on the medical examiner doing a thorough job.

moo
I don’t see any way that Judge Gull would allow any of the defence lawyers to stand up in her courtroom and lie to her face about the medical examiner and the autopsy report does not indicate any time of death. There’s no way that Judge Gull would allow this without swift punishment.

I know that it’s unbelievable in a “what the hell happened that these people can’t get it together to do this for these girls” and we don’t want it to be true but it is.

MOO
 
I do believe he found religion and decided to unburden his soul. Just a shame the people around him then tried to ignore what he was telling them.

MOO
If KA and RA's mother didn't believe him and his confession/s until today, but RA's daughter doesn't support him, there must be a insuperable conflict between the parties meanwhile. IMO Hard for a little family of three relatives.
 
A life stressor and just plain evil also explains it. I don't believe RA had a psychotic break, I think he was angry and mad and Libby and Abby were his targets.

JMO

You'd at least want to see the hard psychiatric assessment.

I don't know if others have experienced a proper psychotic break first hand but it can be frightening and it's not the kind of thing that you get over in a couple of weeks in my opinion


MOO
 
I think that once you read the transcripts, you will see the hours of important testimony and overwhelming details that are scrubbed from this broadcast. They are staunch anti-defense. They don’t share any detail of testimony of defense witnesses. They support one biased narrative and intentionally do not include content that supports theories outside of their own.

If you listened tonight, you would be very aware of their mocking coverage of the expert. Did you hear anything she said about the crime scene or her history other than Aine condescendingly making fun of “magical thinking” because Aine doesn’t comprehend the subject matter ? If you don’t understand the testimony being given as a “reporter” wouldn’t you want to do some research before recording your show so you don’t sound like an absolute dolt making fun of something for being “fake” when it’s an real thing in that experts field.

This podcaster thinks this expert is a “garbage witness” (direct quote) because they don’t believe someone can be an expert in this field.. but isn’t she friends with the Toth owner? Does she want to tell the toth how ridiculous she thinks having knowledge about “reading runes” and holding religious ceremonies is?

All Moo


I also consider the Odinist sacrifice of Abby & Libby magical thinking and I am not condescending or making fun. It's just that illogical and non sensical to me.

TMS actually had the Toth owner on their Podcast at one point. AB left that long begging voicemail after searching the net in April (for the May trial lol) for an Odin expert and asked the Toth owner to meet with him and possibly testify for the Defense to which she flat out refused.

I think all is well with TMS and Toth.

JMO
 
Maybe there is an estimated TOD, in the autopsy report. The autopsy notes might be just that, notes, intended by the author to serve the author. Didn't jot it down, entered it directly into the report. Nature of the injuries, elements, digestion, rigor, insect activity might give some indication. And if no meaningful range was determined, those are good questions for trial.

JMO
RA himself didn't confess to the crime and a certain time, he committed the murders, during his circa 61 confessions? Probably not important to him or he had no sense of time at all during his "mission".
 
Everyone has their own little quirk of a case they get fixated on (who fed those McStay dogs :rolleyes:)

For me on this case, it's the darned footnote in the Franks about the rope that the defence claimed might have been used to hang the victim by her feet.

I always knew that was wild speculation, because her hair would be full of blood and there would be ligature marks around her ankles.

But now we know from yesterdays reporting that the defence always knew that was an outright fabrication ... and put it in there anyway.

Where did they get the idea? My guess is 'trusted consultant' MW's mining of social media.

IMO
I've always said you only needed to read the Footnotes section of the Infamous Franks Memo to realize the D was blowing smoke to say the least.

JMO
 
I also consider the Odinist sacrifice of Abby & Libby magical thinking and I am not condescending or making fun. It's just that illogical and non sensical to me.

TMS actually had the Toth owner on their Podcast at one point. AB left that long begging voicemail after searching the net in April (for the May trial lol) for an Odin expert and asked the Toth owner to meet with him and possibly testify for the Defense to which she flat out refused.

I think all is well with TMS and Toth.

JMO
How do you think the states theory of this crime was magical thinking ?

I’m very aware of the gossip surrounding the Toth leaking voicemails. MS made very sure to tell that story again tonight. I am just relaying the concerns that people who wish to be informed would have regarding the refusal of MS to actually report the details of the testimony. I found it hypocritical that this podcaster has a prior guest that they considered an expert, but arbitrarily decides this other expert who had a CV a mile long is “garbage” solely because she is testifying for the defense. Not very fair unbiased fact focused if they refused to give any facts.

MOO .
 
You want the state to pay the defense lawyers hourly fee for an entire day for one of the lead lawyers to drive out to the prison (what was it eight hours, round trip?) to drop off discovery because the prison cannot be trusted to follow their own protocols surrounding inmate legal documents ?
Well they paid for Baldwin $12,600 to drive to Georgia to pic up FB photos from some random and he didn't even return with them.

Yes, I think the seriousness of those documents would have warranted one or both of the attorneys to make that trip themselves and to spend time with their client RA. Absolutely.

MOO
 
I've always said you only needed to read the Footnotes section of the Infamous Franks Memo to realize the D was blowing smoke to say the least.

JMO
The CAOs caselaw response to the lazy judge motion was literally quoting a footnote. So they do matter after all. MOO
 
Well they paid for Baldwin $12,600 to drive to Georgia to pic up FB photos from some random and he didn't even return with them.

Yes, I think the seriousness of those documents would have warranted one or both of the attorneys to make that trip themselves and to spend time with their client RA. Absolutely.

MOO
I’m sorry, this is the first that I’m hearing that they don’t have these photos? They have shown them to several witnesses in these hearings.

ETA; and just to add context for the need to travel, I believe that it would be important for counsel to depose this person that spoke to LE and submitted evidence that the defense finds exculpatory and the police destroyed or “lost” MOO
 
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She went on CourtTV and talked about her opinion on the Franks Motion. There are a lot of familiar faces with this case on CourtTv so I’m not really connecting how this is a bad thing but I’m sure I’ll learn soon. MOO
<snipped & BBM>

Perlmutter, however, acknowledged during intense questioning by Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland that her findings were based on a review of a limited set of evidence. McLeland also sought to discredit Perlmutter by eliciting testimony that she reached the same conclusion a year ago, when she appeared on Court TV and before she even saw any evidence in the case.

Delphi killings are 'textbook' examples of ritualistic murder, defense expert testifies
 
<snipped & BBM>

Perlmutter, however, acknowledged during intense questioning by Carroll County Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland that her findings were based on a review of a limited set of evidence. McLeland also sought to discredit Perlmutter by eliciting testimony that she reached the same conclusion a year ago, when she appeared on Court TV and before she even saw any evidence in the case.

Delphi killings are 'textbook' examples of ritualistic murder, defense expert testifies
You’re telling me that I can watch the court TV video and read the testimony of this expert and she will not say anything more descriptive now that she is actually seen the crime scene photos. She will regurgitate her exact same opinion.
 
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