Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

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Regarding the phones showing KK and his dad were somewhere else at the time of the murders — theoretically, could one not just set a device to play YouTube or Spotify on auto play so they don’t stop until someone manually stops them? If someone could do this and leave their device somewhere else during the commission of a crime, how would Le know they were with those devices vs at a crime? Why couldn’t any suspect on any case have done this and just brought along a burner cell to the crime or no cell at all?

So I guess I want to know: how are LE sure the devices were not set to auto? I assume they checked the apps being used for time stamps and date or the accelerometer for footsteps and direction?

I guess I just wish we knew they put in more due diligence in this case than to assume it couldn’t be someone because the device was being used elsewhere.

All my opinion of course.
From what I can see, at least on the KK and TK angle, LE has indeed put in due diligence. jmo
 
Is it possible the kids sent it to someone via snap and that person provided it to Le from their own device? Just wondering as I don’t use the app.

Well the point of Snapchat is the photo/video vanishes after you view it.

And you are not meant to be able to screen grab the image either or it would defeat the purpose of it.
 
K. Murphy on stand, worked on the Odin Angle (2017-2019) (Click, Ferency and Murphy). Got a tip that EF said he killed the girls from one of his sisters.

They decided to have the sister make a controlled call to EF to subtly get him repeating information on tape. They made the call and it went South quickly because MJ blurts out "Elvis why did you kill those girls?" and he hung up.

Murphy & Holeman interviewed EF later on and got a swab for DNA. Murphy drove EF back home and EF said he spit on one of the girls. Murphy didn't take him seriously.

Murphy told NMcL he thought EF and MJ were 'full of crap'. Never found any evidence tying BH, EF, PW to Delphi.

Murphy was very upset and cried when shown crime scene photos. :(
Wondering, were they shown to persons of interest such as EF etc?
 
I listened to the Murder Sheet episode tonight. It didn’t come out to after 2am. I woke up and checked my phone and it was literally downloading into the podcast app as I watched. I could not NOT listen to it.
It is excellent as was yesterday’s. They began by saying today was another devastating day for the defense. I put a D in front of defense witnesses and a P in front of the prosecutions. I haven’t included all the witnesses. This are the more important ones in my view. It’s long but important information.

D—the defense’s “expert” on ritualistic killings was no expert and came of as a joke. She was obviously hawking the defense’s storyline.
D—Brad Holder’s wife blew up in the defense’s face by saying that she was the one who practiced Odinisism when they started dating. Said he was always torn between Christianity like he grew up with and switching to Odinism.
D—Murphy(from Click’s group)explained it was EF’s sister who called in about her brother. He said he eventually came to the conclusion the EF was playing games with him and EF’s sister had serious credibility issues. They never could put EF in Delphi that day. Murphy cried when shown the crime scene photos.
D—Todd Click testified that he did not think the crime scene showed any connection to Odinism but he still thought the Holder group killed the girls. He thought the girls had laughed at their rituals and they killed them for that. Aine commented that that would seem uncharacteristic of both girls. Click admitted they could never put Holder etc in Delphi that day and that he had never seen or checked on Holder’s alibi.
D—Vito talked about KAK. KAK told LE in Aug 2022 that he and his dad drove to Delphi that morning and parked in the back of the cemetery. He waited in a red jeep until his dad returned all bloody. They threw a knife and a cell phone in the Wabash River, hence the river search. LE found nothing. LE determined that KAK and TK’s phones were both being used the day of the murders at their house. LE also pulled and looked through tons of video taken from different security cameras from Delphi to Peru on Feb 13th 2017 and never saw a red jeep. KAK and KAKdaddy were cleared.
—very little time was spent on geofencing. Both sides decided if the defense decided to bring it up at trial, it would be argued at that time. The prosecution also revealed that geofencing information is never included in PCAs because it is so unreliable as to location. Since everything in the PCA is supposed to be true, it has to be left out.
P—the phone extraction expert stated Libby’s video began at 2:13:51pm and ran for 43 seconds ending with DTH. Libby’s phone had an exercise app that recorded when the phone was moving, but not the location. Libby’s phone continued moving until 2:33pm, when it stopped and never moved again.
P—the crime scene reconstructionist and blood splatter expert for the prosecution was an expert. He gave his opinion on how the girls were killed. Aine and Kevin said a lot of people especially the families were upset on hearing it. RA’s wife and mom left before he testified. The MS did not go into a lot of graphic detail. I don’t the expert did either. It was still hard to hear. Libby was standing when the first blow hit her to her neck and she continued to move. He knows this from the large pools of blood that moved with her. He said at some point she placed her hand on the tree making a bloody imprint that to him resembled an upside down L. He said that shape came from how her hand touched the tree, with her pinkie finger up. She was then hit two more times, when she finally went down in a sitting position at the base of the tree. Abby was not moving. She did have on Libby’s clothes and the clothes were saturated in blood so he concluded she was dressed that way when she was killed. This of course totally blows up the FM version where the defense said blood strangely was absent from the crime scene, hinting that the girls had been hung up and had their blood drained.
—when everything was over, the Judge vacated the safekeeping order.
—at the end, all of the lawyers gathered around the Judge’s bench and were talking seriously about something. Things seemed very tense according to the MS. They heard the Judge say something like “we’ll set a time to all get together and discuss this matter”. What the heck could that be? Intriguing for sure. I hope it’s a deal of some kind.

I will say after all this time and all these years it was upsetting and really kinda devastating to hear the details of the girls last moments. We’ve all speculated for so long, and there it was. It got real…..real fast. Aine began crying on the podcast. I don’t know how the families could bear it.
My last thought for now. The last two days have completely obliterated the defense’s case. All of their lies have been exposed, and all of it was lies. Not one thing, except Abby wearing Libby’s clothes, was legit. The defense absolutely made the whole thing up! Shame on them! And I’m including RA and his wife and mother, all the defense’s auxiliary attorneys and all their minions. They all need to go to jail for this fraud. What a waste of time and money and so hurtful to the families.

 
Well the point of Snapchat is the photo/video vanishes after you view it is.

And you are not meant to be able to screen grab the image either.
Right. But what stops someone receiving it from using another device to take a photo of the photo? Poof. Now it is saved. I believe originally you could screen shot a photo you’d received on snap to save it as well and it wouldn’t notify the sender it had been saved. I don’t think the notification on save to sender was a thing until more recently? Even if that was a thing back in 2017 you could still save without anyone knowing:

 
Next on stand is Todd Click. He was setting up the sound equipment in Rushville then met and got involved with Murphy & Ferency on the Oden Angle. TC brought local knowledge. He found the BH FB pictures. Played down the EF & BH mimicking.

Cross by N McL Did you ever find any evidence tying BH, EF, PW to Delphi? No. Do you think this was a ritualistic killing? No. TC said he thought A&L may have made fun of the men performing the ritual and they got killed. But all of his thoughts are circumstantial. Click acknowledged that there was no direct evidence linking them.
 
Regarding the phones showing KK and his dad were somewhere else at the time of the murders — theoretically, could one not just set a device to play YouTube or Spotify on auto play so they don’t stop until someone manually stops them? If someone could do this and leave their device somewhere else during the commission of a crime, how would Le know they were with those devices vs at a crime? Why couldn’t any suspect on any case have done this and just brought along a burner cell to the crime or no cell at all?

So I guess I want to know: how are LE sure the devices were not set to auto? I assume they checked the apps being used for time stamps and date or the accelerometer for footsteps and direction?

I guess I just wish we knew they put in more due diligence in this case than to assume it couldn’t be someone because the device was being used elsewhere.

All my opinion of course.
LE also was able to catch them in a big lie---KK claimed that he was sitting outside a specific convenience mart in a red jeep, waiting for his dad. But there was no red jeep in that lot or the surrounding area at all in that time frame. So that was a lie.

I have also read that auto play is recognised by experts if they look at phone records, so if someone had their phone on autoplay for 4 hours LE would not be fooled.

In terms of due diligence, LE searched the river for about 5 days looking for the knife and cell phone. They used a lot of resources, time and effort doing so, with no results. So I can't question their effort or due diligence here.
 
Regarding the phones showing KK and his dad were somewhere else at the time of the murders — theoretically, could one not just set a device to play YouTube or Spotify on auto play so they don’t stop until someone manually stops them? If someone could do this and leave their device somewhere else during the commission of a crime, how would Le know they were with those devices vs at a crime? Why couldn’t any suspect on any case have done this and just brought along a burner cell to the crime or no cell at all?

So I guess I want to know: how are LE sure the devices were not set to auto? I assume they checked the apps being used for time stamps and date or the accelerometer for footsteps and direction?

I guess I just wish we knew they put in more due diligence in this case than to assume it couldn’t be someone because the device was being used elsewhere.

All my opinion of course.

I watched a trial in which this came up - Chandler Halderson who killed both of this parents, and dismembered/disposed of their bodies. The murders happened in the family home, and IIRC from expert testimony LE believed that he set youtube to auto play during certain activities that he did to dispose of his parents where he ranged outside the home. It was a tactic to divert attention from where he really was at those times. Investigators were able to figure it out.

Edit to say - this trial is worth a watch if you want to understand geolocation data from phones - it was used extensively to build the case and explained well.
 
What exactly is the fabrication? Did they imagine a rope was there or the hanging part?

The hanging part came from a certain person's FB page where there was a pic of a person hanging from a tree.
IMO

Yesterday's expert testimony make it quite clear no one was hung from any tree.

The defence knew that all along.

IMO
 
Very interesting to hear that It was revealed yesterday that the FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit looked deeply at this crime and concluded it was NOT a sacrificial, ritualistic killing and the branches were not Odinist runes.

They classified it as an "Undoing". When a killer is undoing, it's them trying to cover up what they've done as a measure of if I cover it up, I never did it. I believe that makes much more logical sense, especially coming from behavioral experts on the subject matter.

JMO

At 15:34 of TMS Day 3

The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings: Day Three

It's been a con job all along.

That's why the Franks was written that way with the real evidence hidden behind footnotes.

Where was their Prof Turco yesterday?

MOO
 
I don't understand the debate. The video and images exist. What is the defense's point?

jmo

I think they want them suppressed because of the way they were captured or found on the phone---they had to use some process of some kind to retrieve them maybe? Don't know why that would mean they should be suppressed though?
Because they want to separate the image/video from any timestamp within RA's time at MHB. As if they were taken later or the timing is ambiguous somehow.

18 minutes.

The girls were deceased under less than an hour from drop off, went from happy girls chatting about girl things to victims of a frenzied, violent, unimaginable end.

To those who say one man couldn't have done it, yes, one could. 18 minutes alone with a mad man is actually forever, how terrifying and harrowing those minutes were.

I know defense attorneys have jobs to do, but even defense attorneys draw lines. At what's ethical. Decent, distasteful, I'm not always sure.

Using Libby's bloody handprint to claim some unsupported Odinist ritual, I don't have to respect them and I don't.

What they've attempted to spread in the media, despite gag orders, is reprehensible.

We are finally getting to hear from Abby and Libby, their bodies and their blood their last testament.

May Abby and Libby be remembered for the fullness of their lives before that final hour, and may RA be remembered for nothing but it.

JMO
 
Tears while listening to what was said in court about their last moments. Three blows to Libby's neck. And was the weapon actually a box cutter? Again, RA is trying to relieve himself of this crime and has been self-snitching since day 1. We need to let him confess and fade into the abyss.
 
I am glad to see that, officially, it feels like the many Franks have now been blown apart.

The vast majority on here all saw through them, and it’s been proven in the last few days. IMO

They have wilfully taken the evidence and twisted it to suit their twisted agenda, and it has all been blown apart. I doubt the Odins will even be allowed at the trial after the last few days.

IMO
 
Always enlightening to read the comments.
After listening to this, it sounds like Richard Allen is indeed the killer. He wanted to confess over 60 times to clear his conscience. According to Murder Sheet podcast, some of those confessions contain details only the killer would know and some of the confessions are recorded. T

There is one thing I do not understand. Why does he not just plead guilty then and spare the families the trial?
 
I will never understand why uninvolved people feel the need to inject themselves and falsify involvement in heinous crimes. Never.

With the EF family, sounds like it was a combination of mental illness/mental disabilities and, probably, deep-seated family trauma. With KAK it is less clear but may be similar, plus he thought he could improve his conditions in incarceration. It's still definitely, 100% wrong but I can understand how it comes about especially with the former case.
 

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