Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

[girlhasnoname]

Oh… I guess they only report on the cross examination ? This is the second time I’m hearing them just reporting on the short cross examination and not any of the direct. The first being the geofencing. They only included Nicks short objection and none of the actual testimony or information shared.

I just gave you direct testimony from Murphy and Holeman and cross. What are you talking about, I'm honestly confused here?

I never referenced geofencing because I don't know enough about it myself to claim anything, but I have seen Certified FBI CAST experts explain it easily for the juries to understand. Most recently the Barry Morphew case and the Alex Murdaugh case. Fascinating stuff there.

JMO

 

[Gemmie]

Pretty sure if a potential POI professed to spitting on one of the victims they would have swabbed her entire body.

MOO

I would think that would all depend on the timing of the confession and the cremation or burial. Does anyone know when EF confessed in relation to when the girl's bodies being cremated/buried?

 

[grannygates]

It has zero relevance and an innocent man shouldn’t be blamed when he isn’t the one on trial.
If you wish to talk about fairness, then I certainly wouldn’t want a man accused of a horrific crime to try and then use me as a scapegoat when I am not a suspect in the case and not on trial.

MOO

I think that RA used the word “patsy”, so I would agree. I would never want an innocent person to go down for a crime when better POIs exist. MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

It seems like the big topic is whether the Rushville task force could tie the men they investigated to the Delphi crime scene. I think it’s important to consider that the Rushville crew was investigating and submitting their work to the Unified Command. They asked for then search warrant and got crickets. The UC was the lead on this case. The task force didn’t get to finish their investigation.

There is also geofence information that was recently discovered by the defense that may speak to this outside of the task force. We will have to wait for the transcripts on that.

I don’t think the defense should have to solve the case or provide dna evidence at the crime scene like some mistaken lawyer wants to claim. The original idea of a nexus was a connection to either the crime or the victims and both of those have been established IMO. But I am open minded about these other people as I find the FBIs investigating this crime as related to Nordic beliefs too big of a coincidence to ignore. The contents of the original investigation plus how all of the evidence of this OG investigation went “missing” has graduated these events from a series of coincidence to a pattern in my eyes.

I also find it odd that the standard for the defenses evidence should be higher than the evidence in the PCA used to arrest this man and throw him in prison? Is the idea that none of the 6 others guys own a Sig, in a crime without a gun. The UC ignored search warrants so we can’t even say that.

As a person who actually wants to know what happened that day and get real justice for the girls, if the case against RA is as strong as the pro-guilt side says, it should be able to stand up to the jury knowing about the first 5 years of the investigation and not being restricted to only knowing about the few weeks they investigated RA. This is what I would consider a fair trial.

MOO

Rushville Task Force??? How can any officers adequately investigate a crime that occurred someplace else?

Is this yet another D-team exaggeration to make something about Rushville work appear official?

As well the Delphi Task Force has never referred to itself as ‘Unified Command’. One crime does not require multiple task forces.

BBM

Delphi, Indiana, Murders: Everything We Know About Killings of Abby Williams and Libby German

More than two years after the crimes, no one has been arrested in connection with their murders.

www.insideedition.com

“After receiving multiple calls, Capt. Dave Bursten of the Indiana State Police assures the public the task force dedicated to finding the teens' case investigates every tip.

“I can promise you this: When an arrest is made of a suspect identified ... as the alleged perpetrator of the Delphi Murders, rest assured, we will let everyone know," Bursten said in a statement.

State police's statement added, "It is important for the public and media to know that many similar tips and arrests of other persons alleged to be connected to the Delphi murders occur with some frequency in and outside of Indiana. Each tip - whether it receives media attention or not - is investigated for any connection to the Delphi case.”..”

 

[Yemelyan]

Stupid question coming up... I've been wondering for a long time about EF saying he spit on one of the girls, yet we never heard there was a DNA match for him or an arrest. So my question is... do they automatically swab a victims entire body for DNA? Or only a few spots here and there? If not 100% of a victims body... perhaps the area(s) they swabbed didn't have EF's spit on it, hence it not showing up.

IMO there's no practical way to swab an "entire" anything for DNA, much less a body. This has to do with how the testing is done; financial reasons; and time reasons. However, forensic scientists can use specific light sources that reveal areas of interest which can then be swabbed individually, and then presumptive testing can be done that distinguishes blood from semen and saliva among other fluids. There are various serological tests that would screen for saliva (or other bodily fluids) and those would go along with DNA testing.

 

[Salah11]

I think that RA used the word “patsy”, so I would agree. I would never want an innocent person to go down for a crime when better POIs exist. MOO

Well there is no better POA when the man in question has confessed 60+ times and of course can be placed at the crime.

 

[photographer4]

Why would it help the case?

I feel like you are flipping the burden of proof here. The State must prove RA is guilty and there is no other reasonable possibility. If the defence can point to admissible evidence that raises a reasonable possibility one of these alternate people did it - then the state must rule that person out at trial.

The defence had their day in court to show what evidence there was and their witnesses said none existed.

In my view what you are left with is peoples hunches, speculation and theories.

MOO

I think you answered your own question here - if the judge allows the whole Odin thing in to trial, then the State SHOULD be very ready to show exactly what they did to be certain of their alibis and why it could not have been them, and should be readily able to draw their focus back to the accused. If they had a chart at the ready such as the one I described, then it would be far easier for jurors to see it and be sure of who said what to whom, when and where people (and their devices) were said to have been from that group that day. I think they should be ready for this even if the Judge is not direct in her assertion that it can’t be brought up because the D may find a way to bring it in anyhow - best the State is straight up ready for it and can squash it all very quickly imo.

 

[Gemmie]

IMO there's no practical way to swab an "entire" anything for DNA, much less a body. This has to do with how the testing is done; financial reasons; and time reasons. However, forensic scientists can use specific light sources that reveal areas of interest which can then be swabbed individually, and then presumptive testing can be done that distinguishes blood from semen and saliva among other fluids. There are various serological tests that would screen for saliva (or other bodily fluids) and those would go along with DNA testing.

Thank you! So they'd have a way to know what areas of interest to swab. That helps a lot.

 

[ClearAhead]

I think you answered your own question here - if the judge allows the whole Odin thing in to trial, then the State SHOULD be very ready to show exactly what they did to be certain of their alibis and why it could not have been them, and should be readily able to draw their focus back to the accused. If they had a chart at the ready such as the one I described, then it would be far easier for jurors to see it and be sure of who said what to whom, when and where people (and their devices) were said to have been from that group that day. I think they should be ready for this even if the Judge is not direct in her assertion that it can’t be brought up because the D may find a way to bring it in anyhow - best the State is straight up ready for it and can squash it all very quickly imo.

What you describe was just covered in the recent hearing. Simply put, the P does not want the D to present anything about Odins at the trial. It was up to the D to convince the Judge why they should. However each witness the D called admitted nothing connected Odinists to Delphi and the crime scene.

The Jury’s role is to determine is RA is guilty or not (BARD), they can’t be expected to review the quality of the entire investigation.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I would think that would all depend on the timing of the confession and the cremation or burial. Does anyone know when EF confessed in relation to when the girl's bodies being cremated/buried?

I don't think we know the official time of things done yet with the gag order, especially regarding people they ruled out.

The girls remains were taken to Terra Haute for examination and regardless of whether they knew of EF's statement or not, they would have looked the bodies over for any signs of DNA from anyone. It's just what ME's do and I have no doubt they paid extra attention here.

MOO

 

[Willow Knight]

As a woman, if I saw a man bloody/muddy, then I'm afraid I wouldn’t stop.

He must have been in a right old state and I wouldn’t risk my own safety to help a random person. It’s just as well she didn’t offer him help either considering what crimes he had just committed. He may have even tried to harm her if he thought she could recognise him as a witness.

Moo

This very well is a possibility. If she were to have stopped, what would he have done? A person that could identify him close up? Sad to think what could have happened, RA was in save his butt mode. A dangerous situation for this woman witness. IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I would think that would all depend on the timing of the confession and the cremation or burial. Does anyone know when EF confessed in relation to when the girl's bodies being cremated/buried?

They have ways of using light sources to highlight potential areas of DNA, but I'm sure they used it over their entire bodies, not literally swabbing every inch.

JMO

 

[Willow Knight]

They have Odinist prison gangs now at Westville? Do you have a link to that?

That confirmation blew the minds of every person who has ever worked corrections. I’m still in disbelief. What is happening at that prison that guards want to show affiliation with prison gangs.. MOO

I've sat on this over night. What prison guards are associated with gangs? What prison guards are Odinist? I understand this was an "MOO", however what is this based on?

If I am wrong please correct me. Is it a patch that says "In Odin we Trust" worn on a guard/s uniform? If not, what exactly connects guards to gangs?

 

[photographer4]

Sounds like a perfectly reasonable place to end up if Abby was told to put Libby's clothes on. It either fell out or she found it and hide it...most likely the former. MO

Interesting idea. I’m not sure about the idea that she hid it though. If she had the presence of mind to do that, especially if injured and in terror mode from whatever else may have happened / been going on, that would really surprise me. Not impossible, but surprising imo. I’m not sure she dressed herself either at this point. I’d like more information on the injury / injuries she may have had but it seems like she had one not so large injury on her neck based on the court proceedings last week *moo as I’m not up to date yet*. If she had the presence of mind to hide the phone, I wonder at what point she may have done so and why? What did she know about what was on that phone that would be important later? That phone seems mighty important to her and LG in all of this and since it wasn’t used to call for help (that we know of), I really do wonder what was on it.

 

[Yemelyan]

Thank you! So they'd have a way to know what areas of interest to swab. That helps a lot.

Yes, the whole body can't be swabbed but the whole body can be intensively examined for areas of interest - which can be swabbed.

 

[Salah11]

Interesting idea. I’m not sure about the idea that she hid it though. If she had the presence of mind to do that, especially if injured and in terror mode from whatever else may have happened / been going on, that would really surprise me. Not impossible, but surprising imo. I’m not sure she dressed herself either at this point. I’d like more information on the injury / injuries she may have had but it seems like she had one not so large injury on her neck based on the court proceedings last week *moo as I’m not up to date yet*. If she had the presence of mind to hide the phone, I wonder at what point she may have done so and why? What did she know about what was on that phone that would be important later? That phone seems mighty important to her and LG in all of this and since it wasn’t used to call for help (that we know of), I really do wonder what was on it.

We know what was on it the video of the person who committed the crime.

So of course Libby took a great risk recording their killer so she would want to make sure it didn’t get taken at some point.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think that RA used the word “patsy”, so I would agree. I would never want an innocent person to go down for a crime when better POIs exist. MOO

I'd really like to understand how any of the men mentioned are a better person than RA when we know:

RA was self admitted at the scene, places himself on the bridge, dressed practically identical (including a face cover??) at the same time, admits to seeing the 3 (4) young girl witnesses who also place him there, seen by witness on first platform at the same time just 'looking at fish', is seen walking Old County N300 looking 'muddy and bloody as if he'd been in a fight' by another witness, is a dead ringer to Libby's video IMO, changes his looks (large weight gain, extreme beard, completely gray) after the murders, and then confesses to his wife and Mom and dozens more.

Can anything similar be said of any of these other POI's?

JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

Okay so here we have it. No Rushville Task Force, appears yet another D-Team distortion.

However Ferency and Murphy were members of a FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force. It’s likely they were involved in any investigations when allegations were made to criminal involvement by an organized group, for instance infiltration of Odinism by White Supremists. IIRC Click was asked to assist this group but he wasn’t appointed as an official member.

Delphi investigators: Defense 'twisting facts for sensationalism' over cult sacrifice claims

Richard Allen's public defenders have accused a white nationalist Odinist group of killing the girls in a ritualistic sacrifice.

www.courttv.com

“At the time of the murders, Detective Greg Ferency was a detective with the Terre Haute Police Department assigned to the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force. Detective Kevin Murphy, of Indiana State Police, was also a member of that task force. Todd Click was an officer with Rushville Police.”

 

[grannygates]

I'd really like to understand how any of the men mentioned are a better person than RA when we know:

RA was self admitted at the scene, places himself on the bridge, dressed practically identical (including a face cover??) at the same time, admits to seeing the 3 (4) young girl witnesses who also place him there, seen by witness on first platform at the same time just 'looking at fish', is seen walking Old County N300 looking 'muddy and bloody as if he'd been in a fight' by another witness, is a dead ringer to Libby's video IMO, changes his looks (large weight gain, extreme beard, completely gray) after the murders, and then confesses to his wife and Mom and dozens more.

Can anything similar be said of any of these other POI's?

JMO

The people with Nordic views that the FBI immediately investigated due to their connections to the victims and the signatures at the crime scene, which includes a man who confessed to the crimes with intimate details before the girls were even found. MOO

 

[Trebor5591]

I am in your boat and hoping within next few weeks Odins can be shut down by Judge Gull.

No doubt some will still moan it’s a conspiracy but it will be a step closer to justice for Libby and Abby and their loved ones.

I don't understand why the Judge would tell the defense they are not allowed to present a "some other dude did it" defense. The defense should be able to present the defense they deem best, and allow the jury to evaluate the merits of it. Isn't that the way the criminal justice system works in the US? If the judge and prosecution start telling the defense what they can and can not argue, then "we have a problem, Houston", IMO.