Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

[grannygates]

Not a lawyer, but my understanding of the charges is that if he is guilty of the kidnapping that ended up with two dead kids, then he is going down for their murders even if he didn’t directly murder them. Any involvement is enough to hang him here if he is found guilty. If the LE can’t find anyone else to take down with him, then that isn’t good for society as that would mean others are still running about and posing a danger to others. But at least they’ll have gotten RA if he was guilty of some part of it (MOOOO).

There is no underlying kidnapping charge because of the statute of limitations, so there are felony murder charges but no actual felony attached to it? I don’t understand what they have to prove now.

And then the other murder charges were under the accomplice statute but now the state says there’s no accomplice?

It’s incredibly confusing to try to make sense of the way this is charged. MOO

 

[photographer4]

Can anyone take RA off the bridge just as Libby and Abby were approaching the bridge, without using the discredited FM and wishful thinking?

It is a conundrum. HE’s on the bridge per his admission. He saw some kids. Some kids saw him. Did he see the second witness who saw him? I don’t remember. I think I’m interested to know how the D gets him off that bridge and where he went next more than almost anything at the moment.

 

[grannygates]

You would have to ask them why they interpreted it the way they did, as I can not speak for them, I’m afraid.

I simply reported what they claimed and backed it up with a link as per the rules.

Thanks for the response. I tried to listen to their reporting but wasn’t able to find an explanation, so I wondered if I just missed it. Appreciate it !

 

[photographer4]

They also state that when they say RA is driving by the camera, it’s identified as a “similar car” to what he owns. So this tells me it’s not clear enough to read license plates so they can probably tell it’s a dark sedan or a white truck and probably make a decent guess on the make and model. MOO

Oh boy. So it can’t be that clear then as it does not sound like the LE know exactly what car was there? They have some idea that it is similar to what RA drove, but not enough to be sure based on that video? That might be a problem for them.

 

[Salah11]

If they’ve spun the heads of people who follow this enough that we’re all discussing it as we are still… then they can’t be as as bad at their jobs as MS would have people believe. If they can spin the internet into a frenzy of reasonable doubt, I imagine they’ll whip the jury into a state of difficult deliberations as well.

A few voices on the internet are not going to change the facts. The Jury won’t have an agenda and will stick to the letter of the law and won’t ignore evidence just because it doesn’t fit their theory. IMO

 

[ClearAhead]

Imo: possibly not (yet). Not until we know what police said to him / showed him etc and what he learned about the crime from the disclosure etc. Did he confess BEFORE he got disclosure? Was that confession accurate if he did? Asking as I’m so far behind, I fear I’m never going to be caught up!

The exact content of RA’s multiple confessions hasn’t been publicly released. But the D must believe they’ll be in some way damaging to his defense or they wouldn’t ask for them to be stricken from trial.

 

[WildHuncher]

Just because the kids saw RA doesn’t mean he killed LG and AW though. It means he was… at the bridge. When he said he was. I do believe he probably is some sort of guilty but for now, all we know is RA was at the bridge and he saw some kids there who may also (likely) have seen him.

Within minutes of when he was “… at the bridge,” a person of remarkably similar appearance was filmed crossing that very bridge and approaching two doomed girls. But that doesn’t tie in? Might as well be hours later and a continent away? Was there a switcheroo in that little time and space? Where did BG come from? Where did RA go?

 

[grannygates]

So Click may’ve optimistically yet incorrectly assumed the FBI BAU determined the crime scene involved ritualistic elements. But the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force would’ve consisted of more members than only Ferency and Murphy. There’d be no reason for the final FBI BAU conclusion to be shared with an officer from Rushville, especially one who was already part way out the door to retirement.

But enough for a defense team lacking integrity to run with.

JMO

This link has a good breakdown of 4/6 OG POI and will explain why Rushville LE would be involved

Delphi double homicide: Evidence against suspects named in 'Odin Report'

News 18 is still breaking down new revelations about the Dephi double homicide, including suspects named in a police report.

www.wlfi.com

Motion to dismiss hearing transcript where Click explains why the 3 LE were put together on a task force.

March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[grannygates]

Oh boy. So it can’t be that clear then as it does not sound like the LE know exactly what car was there? They have some idea that it is similar to what RA drove, but not enough to be sure based on that video? That might be a problem for them.

They don’t have any evidence that the car even stopped to park, just that it drove by the camera. There was also a myriad of different descriptions of the car that parked at the CPS building, so I don’t think this video definitively proves anything IMO

 

[Vern]

Sorry those girls took a photo of a bench at 1.26pm and they saw RA afterwards walking towards the bridge and he saw those girls so its a fact he didn’t arrive until after 1.26.


So he can be placed walking towards the bridge at around 1.30pm which actually ties in with his original statement where he admits he was out there between 1.30pm-3.30pm.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

And don't forget he stated he was on the platform of the bridge watching the fish ...

which also matches what another witness observed and her timings are not consistent with RAs "new timings"/"Changed statement". The same witness also then turned to leave the bridge area and passed Abby & Libby on their way to it so there is zero chance that RA did not see them.

What is RA's alibi again? Everyone else has one but they aren't to be believed. What is RAs?? Nada.

 

[ClearAhead]

Not a lawyer, but my understanding of the charges is that if he is guilty of the kidnapping that ended up with two dead kids, then he is going down for their murders even if he didn’t directly murder them. Any involvement is enough to hang him here if he is found guilty. If the LE can’t find anyone else to take down with him, then that isn’t good for society as that would mean others are still running about and posing a danger to others. But at least they’ll have gotten RA if he was guilty of some part of it (MOOOO).

What is the likelihood RA would agree to intercept two teens up on a wooden bridge, possibly ordering them at gunpoint DTH while a pack of shady characters are at the bottom awaiting? Surely he wouldn’t be expecting a friendly afternoon picnic was planned. Being involved in such a plot is despicable and IMO anyone who sets up a murder deserves to face an equal punishment.

If by some remote chance he had become unknowingly involved and it got out of hand he could’ve immediately reported the entire incident, hoping the girls might still be resuscitated and kept alive. But no, he later claims he didn’t see them.

If other culprits are still running about and if RA is guilty as alleged, he knows exactly what occurred. By staying silent he deserves the harshest extent of his sentence.
MOO

 

[grannygates]

What is the likelihood RA would agree to intercept two teens up on a wooden bridge, possibly ordering them at gunpoint DTH while a pack of shady characters are at the bottom awaiting? Surely he wouldn’t be expecting a friendly afternoon picnic was planned. Being involved in such a plot is despicable and IMO anyone who sets up a murder deserves to face an equal punishment.

If by some remote chance he had become unknowingly involved and it got out of hand he could’ve immediately reported the entire incident, hoping the girls might still be resuscitated and kept alive. But no, he later claims he didn’t see them.

If other culprits are still running about and if RA is guilty as alleged, he knows exactly what occurred. By staying silent he deserves the harshest extent of his sentence.
MOO

I’m not a lawyer but this is my layman’s explaination - When a person is charged with felony murder, the state only has to prove the underlying felony attached. The idea being that when this person committed the felony, they had an understanding that it was dangerous enough that their victim could possibly die.

So, if there was a kidnapping charge attached to the felony murder charge, the prosecution would just have to prove the kidnapping actually occurred. I believe that was what @photographer4 was referring to.

(I have no idea what they have to prove with the respect to the felony murder charge in this case, but that’s the general explanation I was given regarding the difference of murder and felony murder. If someone knows what they have to prove in this case re:felony murder, I definitely want to know!)

MOO

 

[Vern]

It’s their friend. If they all wanted to join a gang and have brothers, they would all go together. Robert Pickton argued “diminished mental capacity” defense as well and no one excuses his murders. MOO

There was a tonne of evidence against Robert Picton to go against him as well. Given his coverups and attempts to totally dispose of his victim's bodies and negate DNA (which he failed to do), he obviously was not of diminished capacity. The sitation with E does not resemble Picton in any way, shape or form.

There is also NO known "guilty knowedge of the crimes scene", nor any "evidence against E" --- it has been confirmed there were no antlers despite the Frank's alledging such. If his DNA were actually found on the victim because he spat on her, the D-Team would have already screamed that factoid loud and clear because the Prosecution could not hold that info back from the Defence as it would be "exculpatory".

According to Click et al, they could not place any of these individuals at the crime scene. They testified to that. And the crime scene experts from the FBI, have debunked the Odinist Cult murder theory.

IMO, this conspiracy theory (because it would require everyone in the state to be lying) is dead in the water.

 

[ClearAhead]

There is no underlying kidnapping charge because of the statute of limitations, so there are felony murder charges but no actual felony attached to it? I don’t understand what they have to prove now.

And then the other murder charges were under the accomplice statute but now the state says there’s no accomplice?

It’s incredibly confusing to try to make sense of the way this is charged. MOO

These are the charges RA is presently facing. The stand alone kidnapping charge was dropped due to the statute of limitations. There was no accomplice statute, it’s always been murder.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

State of Indiana v. Richard M. Allen
08C01-2210-MR-000001



Section 35-42-1-1 and 2 are this-
A person who:
(1)knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;

(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);

2023 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 42. Offenses Against the Person :: Chapter 1. Homicide :: 35-42-1-1. Murder

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

 

[grannygates]

There was a tonne of evidence against Robert Picton to go against him as well. Given hs coverups and attempts to totally dispose of his victim's bodies and negate DNA (which he faled to do), he obviously was not of diminished capacity.

There is also NO known "guilty knowedge of the crimes scene", nor any "evidence against E" --- it has been confirmed there were no antlers despite the Frank's alledging such. If his DNA were actually found on the victim because he spat on her, the D-Team would have already screamed that factoid loud and clear because the Prosecution could not hold that info back from the Defence as it would be "exculpatory".

According to Click et al, they could not place any of these individuals at the crime scene. They testified to that. And the crime scene experts from the FBI, have debunked the Odinist Cult murder theory.

IMO, this conspiracy theory (because it would require everyone in the state to be lying) is dead in the water.

Picktons defense was that the other people that lived/spent time at the house did it and he was too dumb to do any of it. A lot more people than just him were involved.

We can agree to disagree regarding the importance of a man confessing to intimate knowledge of the crime scene before the girls were even found.

They also can’t place the accused at the crime scene with real evidence, so I disagree that the defense should have to produce a higher standard of evidence than the prosecution is using to try to convict someone.

If the “conspiracy theory” is all a lie, then you have the FBI in on it too. I don’t believe that the FBI members are lying to try to get RA off his charges.

We will have to wait for the court transcripts to see what was actually said in court since our approved source only reported on the states half of it.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

These are the charges RA is presently facing. The stand alone kidnapping charge was dropped due to the statute of limitations. There was no accomplice statute, it’s always been murder.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

State of Indiana v. Richard M. Allen
08C01-2210-MR-000001

View attachment 523098

Section 35-42-1-1 and 2 are this-
A person who:
(1)knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;

(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);

2023 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 42. Offenses Against the Person :: Chapter 1. Homicide :: 35-42-1-1. Murder

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

Oh man, I’m very confused with the way this is charged so Im definitely not the right person to try to explain any of this !

 

[tlcya]

Picktons defense was that the other people that lived/spent time at the house did it and he was too dumb to do any of it. A lot more people than just him were involved.

We can agree to disagree regarding the importance of a man confessing to intimate knowledge of the crime scene before the girls were even found.

They also can’t place the accused at the crime scene with real evidence, so I disagree that the defense should have to produce a higher standard of evidence than the prosecution is using to try to convict someone.

If the “conspiracy theory” is all a lie, then you have the FBI in on it too. I don’t believe that the FBI members are lying to try to get RA off his charges.

We will have to wait for the court transcripts to see what was actually said in court since our approved source only reported on the states half of it.

MOO

the two BBM portions confuse me.

BBM 1 - Remind me again who this intimate knowledge of crime scene confession was made to?
BBM 2 - I was unaware the Federal Bureau of Investigation is trying to get RA off his charges, could you elaborate?

 

[ClearAhead]

Does anyone recall a post made here pertaining to EF during the recent 3–day hearings. I’ve looked but I can’t find it. I think it was a tweet from a reporter. I don’t know who was testifying but the part I remember reading was that the sister suffered from mental illness and her tip was deemed unfounded.

 

[Boxer]

So how many cars were they able to identify and track down? Was the witness who saw muddy bloody in the list of persons they tracked down? I am never going to catch up. Thanks in advance!

It is not public information.
It is just known there is a security camera at the Harvest Store on
300 that captures the road and that a dark car consistent with RAs car drove west on 300 matching the time he said he arrived.

 

[sunshineray]

Interesting idea. I’m not sure about the idea that she hid it though. If she had the presence of mind to do that, especially if injured and in terror mode from whatever else may have happened / been going on, that would really surprise me. Not impossible, but surprising imo. I’m not sure she dressed herself either at this point. I’d like more information on the injury / injuries she may have had but it seems like she had one not so large injury on her neck based on the court proceedings last week *moo as I’m not up to date yet*. If she had the presence of mind to hide the phone, I wonder at what point she may have done so and why? What did she know about what was on that phone that would be important later? That phone seems mighty important to her and LG in all of this and since it wasn’t used to call for help (that we know of), I really do wonder what was on it.

Well the simplest explanation, for that choice, would probably be that Abby saw Libby filming BG as he approached and knew she and Libby were going to die </3 MO