Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

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The blood splatter expert cleared this up.

This was an imprint left by Libby as she was dying. It appears that she was steadying herself against the tree.

There was never a Fehu.
Thank you for replying to me, I think that this is the more logical explanation.

I am only trying to understand why would the DT (IMO) gamble RA's freedom on an F that means, best case scenario, wealth. The idea of a cold-blooded child-killer taking the time to write 'wealth' on a tree is beyond absurd to me.

I'd honestly want to sit down with the Defence Expert and the DT and seriously ask them these questions... but I hope, for everyone's sake, that they bring something stronger as an explanation of the runes/sticks or they change direction ASAP.
 
Do you think it's true that he was reliant on his wife and that she was in control of him and their relationship.

I wonder.

Yes I wonder too. Depending on the severity of a Dependent Personality Disorder, I would think it’d be impossible to sustain a mutually respectable and balanced relationship. It was stated she told him to shut up otherwise she hung up when he began confessing to her on the phone. I also recall the video of the pool playing at the bar, seemed like she was hovering around him…MOO
 
Together a stick formation and the rune on the tree are supposed to signify “Hail Odin”, a creative translation of ‘Hagal’. The blood spatter expert testified the mark on the tree came from Libby’s hand supporting herself.

“Additionally, some of the branches had been precut with a power saw, suggesting they were prepared before the killings, according to the memorandum.

"This stick configuration is a spot-on resemblance for the rune (letter) called 'Hagal'," a footnote in the memorandum states . "This rune is used to depict the word ‘Hail.' Therefore, the combination of the Hagal rune found on Abby and the Ansuz rune found on the tree when combined would proclaim 'Hail Odin.' ”…”
Thank you so much for your response! I had missed that article.

(...this is confusing because I keep hearing 'f', while Ansuz is the rune for 'a'...)

From all the diagrams we see in Court TV, and any sources I can find re: Hagal... I agree that it is a creative interpretation. IMO it is not unlike trying to find patterns in the clouds. If you are looking for a whale, you will see one.
 
Thank you for replying to me, I think that this is the more logical explanation.

I am only trying to understand why would the DT (IMO) gamble RA's freedom on an F that means, best case scenario, wealth. The idea of a cold-blooded child-killer taking the time to write 'wealth' on a tree is beyond absurd to me.

I'd honestly want to sit down with the Defence Expert and the DT and seriously ask them these questions... but I hope, for everyone's sake, that they bring something stronger as an explanation of the runes/sticks or they change direction ASAP.

I’ve wondered the same, why drag in Odinism. My best idea is it’s so sensationalist that the D’s theory received a lot of attention in the media and SM.

If this defense strategy is an attempt to influence a jury it happens to mirror the saying “People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.' (Walter Langer)

JMO and MOO
 
I’ve wondered the same, why drag in Odinism. My best idea is it’s so sensationalist that it brought the D a lot of attention in the media and SM.

If this defense strategy is an attempt to influence a jury it happens to mirror the saying “People will believe a big lie sooner than a little one, and if you repeat it frequently enough, people will sooner or later believe it.' (Walter Langer)

JMO and MOO
I don't understand. Normally I would have few opinions on a DT's strategy pre-trial (are enough motions filled? Are they challenging any concerning eyewitness testimonies?) but in this case, I believe we have seen the entirety of the DT's strategy in advance, via Franks and leaks. If that's the extent of it, I am worried the focus is misplaced.

Frankly if I was the DT, I would be trying to figure out RA's mental health and get all the experts I could get to challenge all the confessions one by one, using the appropriate avenues. I would try to show with dates that the confessions started after RA saw the material. That would be the main fire I'd be trying to extinguish pretrial. By focussing on the specific SODDI defence I feel like they are doing a disservice to everyone.

Personally, I did not find the PCA as strong as I would have liked to. BUT the confessions would be what pushes me past reasonable doubt. No runes would sway me if they included information that can be corroborated.

My greatest concern is: Appeals. If the DT ignores any obvious path to dismissal in favour of their theory, even if there is a conviction, I am worried that the families of the victims will have a long and arduous process ahead, dealing with appeals.

All, IMO
 
I don't understand. Normally I would have few opinions on a DT's strategy pre-trial (are enough motions filled? Are they challenging any concerning eyewitness testimonies?) but in this case, I believe we have seen the entirety of the DT's strategy in advance, via Franks and leaks. If that's the extent of it, I am worried the focus is misplaced.

Frankly if I was the DT, I would be trying to figure out RA's mental health and get all the experts I could get to challenge all the confessions one by one, using the appropriate avenues. I would try to show with dates that the confessions started after RA saw the material. That would be the main fire I'd be trying to extinguish pretrial. By focussing on the specific SODDI defence I feel like they are doing a disservice to everyone.

Personally, I did not find the PCA as strong as I would have liked to. BUT the confessions would be what pushes me past reasonable doubt. No runes would sway me if they included information that can be corroborated.

My greatest concern is: Appeals. If the DT ignores any obvious path to dismissal in favour of their theory, even if there is a conviction, I am worried that the families of the victims will have a long and arduous process ahead, dealing with appeals.

All, IMO

Something else that’s important in my opinion is resolving the time RA claims he was at the trails. It’s stated in his initial interview it was 1:30 to 3:30pm. But he was interviewed (and recorded it appears) another two times, Oct 13, 2022 and Oct 26,2022. I think it’d be very unusual if when he was at the trails wasn’t a key focus during both those later interviews. Upon RAs arrest he had indicated he was seeking an attorney but later when he realized the high cost, he applied for indigent legal services.

So then in November R & B were appointed. At one time they claimed DD just got the date wrong but nothing has been said regarding the stated time in the two other interviews. The D had filed a motion to suppress the Oct 22nd interview but suddenly withdrew it prior to the recent hearing. My opinion only but if the D can’t gracefully back RA out of 1:30 to 3:30pm timeframe, it’s game over for any chance at a viable defense. JMO
 
Something else that’s important in my opinion is resolving the time RA claims he was at the trails. It’s stated in his initial interview it was 1:30 to 3:30pm. But he was interviewed (and recorded it appears) another two times, Oct 13, 2022 and Oct 26,2022. I think it’d be very unusual if when he was at the trails wasn’t a key focus during both those later interviews. Upon RAs arrest he had indicated he was seeking an attorney but later when he realized the high cost, he applied for indigent legal services.

So then in November R & B were appointed. At one time they claimed DD just got the date wrong but nothing has been said regarding the stated time in the two other interviews. The D had filed a motion to suppress the Oct 22nd interview but suddenly withdrew it prior to the recent hearing. My opinion only but if the D can’t gracefully back RA out of 1:30 to 3:30pm timeframe, it’s game over for any chance at a viable defense. JMO
I agree.

I am waiting for the trial to see how they establish the time RA was at the trails. I don't love eyewitnesses (Leo Schofield case ‘Bone Valley’ Podcast Subject Is Granted Parole 37 Years After Wife’s Murder) but I believe that there might be phone evidence that will come out in trial. When it comes to the Prosecution, I don't think we know everything they do, since NMcL has been quite tight lipped in his responses. Looking forward to following the trial, all fingers crossed everyone is ready for October. JMO
 
I agree with you, in that statistically, young females murdered by unknown subs are murdered by single perps vs groups. There is a lot going against the idea of a conspiracy, mostly the fact that the more individuals you add to a crime scene, the more evidence they will leave behind. That's MO and also logic, add 3 more people there and you have 3x footprints, 3x chances of someone forgetting a person item, 3x chances of someone leaving DNA behind etc.

That's why I am struggling to understand why the DT is going with this theory. IMO there are other paths to SODDI that are so much easier to sell to a judge/jurors.

I am genuinely perplexed, I don't personally see more evidence of the Odinists being there than any of the POI that the LE investigated since 2017.

When I first came across this case 3-4 years after the girls were killed I thought:

a: One perpetrator.
b: Maybe targeted.
c: Sexual motivation.

When I came back to it recently:

a: One perpetrator.
b: Opportunity and targeted.
c: Not ritualistic (Odinist argument was new for me).
d: Sexual motivation.
e: Killer cared for Abby as she was redressed.

And with the crime scene having next to no DNA left behind and what seemed like it being staged or posed - someone that knew what they were doing or had researched it thoroughly enough so as to leave no clues.

The unspent bullet and Libby's cell phone, however, was an oversight on the offender's part.

With more coming out during this latest Hearing even though secondhand information:

a: Undoing could be right or just the perpetrator covering the girls up so that they wouldn't be so easily seen by anyone.

b: I felt it was made clear that Abby must have been subdued in some way (knocked out maybe) to have not had any defense wounds or blood anywhere except to the back of the hoodie she wore and around the penetrating trauma (sharp object injury) to her neck.

I also wonder if Libby acted out as to why she was so violently attacked out of the two or was Abby knocked out to be spared from seeing what the perpetrator had in mind for Libby.

If the Blood Splatter specialist, Patrick Cicero, is correct about Abby dying where she laid with the clothes she had on then she may not have been redressed at all as the Final Draft had written.

I still feel one person was capable of committing this crime and that it wasn't ritualistic, also, it may have been that the girls were in the wrong place at the right time to fit the bill of what the perpetrator was looking for that day or it could also have been that one or both girls were targetted.

Sexual motivation, for me, hasn't changed.

Of course, we don't know everything and there is information under wraps for sure and if this does go to court we will probably find out a heck of a lot more then.

There are probably other paths that could have been taken by the DT to establish reasonable doubt rather than going with the Odinist theory.

JMO
 
Thank you for replying to me, I think that this is the more logical explanation.

I am only trying to understand why would the DT (IMO) gamble RA's freedom on an F that means, best case scenario, wealth. The idea of a cold-blooded child-killer taking the time to write 'wealth' on a tree is beyond absurd to me.
What they might say, if they were going to stick with the narrative of Ritual Sacrifice, that the purpose of the sacrifice is to ask Odin for WEALTH and abundance, in exchange for that ritual human sacrifice....which is of course ridiculous, as we have not seen or heard of ANY Odinists sacrificing children in hundreds of years. [if ever]
I'd honestly want to sit down with the Defence Expert and the DT and seriously ask them these questions... but I hope, for everyone's sake, that they bring something stronger as an explanation of the runes/sticks or they change direction ASAP.
 
That's why I am struggling to understand why the DT is going with this theory. IMO there are other paths to SODDI that are so much easier to sell to a judge/jurors.

I am genuinely perplexed, I don't personally see more evidence of the Odinists being there than any of the POI that the LE investigated since 2017.
In the first Franks the DT tried to link the Odinist ritual killing theory to the Odinist guards in prison, who may have threatened RA and his family and in that coerced him to make those early confessions. I think this confession coercion was a significant reason they went with this SODDI over others.

Of course now we know the confessions grew and completely got away from them so they have needed to pivot towards more of a mental health explanation. To me this makes much more sense but perhaps the early confessions were before RA experienced that significant mental break we hear about.
 
I just watched that Nancy Grace YouTube video.





So, 32 mins in, they mentioned him going to his mate who was a conservative officer, and placing himself on the bridge. They believe the video then came out the day later. So another important part of the puzzle is surely his behaviour changed when he realised there was a video, and he had just told LE he was on the bridge?!


ETA - So my take is, his mate files the tip but doesn’t believe for one moment he could be involved and then when nothing comes of it, he doesn’t think anymore of it.
IMHO
 
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b: I felt it was made clear that Abby must have been subdued in some way (knocked out maybe) to have not had any defense wounds or blood anywhere except to the back of the hoodie she wore and around the penetrating trauma (sharp object injury) to her neck.

I also wonder if Libby acted out as to why she was so violently attacked out of the two or was Abby knocked out to be spared from seeing what the perpetrator had in mind for Libby.
SBM: I don't think it's ever been stated that they were throat injuries have they? I wonder if it was a single spinal cord stab to Abbys neck.
 
In the first Franks the DT tried to link the Odinist ritual killing theory to the Odinist guards in prison, who may have threatened RA and his family and in that coerced him to make those early confessions. I think this confession coercion was a significant reason they went with this SODDI over others.

Of course now we know the confessions grew and completely got away from them so they have needed to pivot towards more of a mental health explanation. To me this makes much more sense but perhaps the early confessions were before RA experienced that significant mental break we hear about.
Agreed and I wonder if that 'significant mental break' was part of a plan to help explain the confessions.

JMO
 
I agree with you, in that statistically, young females murdered by unknown subs are murdered by single perps vs groups. There is a lot going against the idea of a conspiracy, mostly the fact that the more individuals you add to a crime scene, the more evidence they will leave behind. That's MO and also logic, add 3 more people there and you have 3x footprints, 3x chances of someone forgetting a person item, 3x chances of someone leaving DNA behind etc.

That's why I am struggling to understand why the DT is going with this theory. IMO there are other paths to SODDI that are so much easier to sell to a judge/jurors.

I am genuinely perplexed, I don't personally see more evidence of the Odinists being there than any of the POI that the LE investigated since 2017.
3x chances someone cracks under questioning.
 
I don't understand. Normally I would have few opinions on a DT's strategy pre-trial (are enough motions filled? Are they challenging any concerning eyewitness testimonies?) but in this case, I believe we have seen the entirety of the DT's strategy in advance, via Franks and leaks. If that's the extent of it, I am worried the focus is misplaced.

Frankly if I was the DT, I would be trying to figure out RA's mental health and get all the experts I could get to challenge all the confessions one by one, using the appropriate avenues. I would try to show with dates that the confessions started after RA saw the material. That would be the main fire I'd be trying to extinguish pretrial. By focussing on the specific SODDI defence I feel like they are doing a disservice to everyone.

Personally, I did not find the PCA as strong as I would have liked to. BUT the confessions would be what pushes me past reasonable doubt. No runes would sway me if they included information that can be corroborated.

My greatest concern is: Appeals. If the DT ignores any obvious path to dismissal in favour of their theory, even if there is a conviction, I am worried that the families of the victims will have a long and arduous process ahead, dealing with appeals.

All, IMO
I think they face appeals ahead anyhow really. This case is a colossal mess!!

JG remains silent on all the “under advisement” matters. I doubt we go to trial in October. It’s like I said before - nothing ever gets sorted in her court hearings. I was shocked she finally vacated safekeeping!! Does not seem she has a set date by which she must rule over these matters - but - I am not a lawyer. I’ve asked before and no one seems to know!
 

90 days? So is she waiting for the clock to expire to throw it out last minute to leave the D to scramble?? What was even the point of the pre trial hearings then??
 
I think they face appeals ahead anyhow really. This case is a colossal mess!!

JG remains silent on all the “under advisement” matters. I doubt we go to trial in October. It’s like I said before - nothing ever gets sorted in her court hearings. I was shocked she finally vacated safekeeping!! Does not seem she has a set date by which she must rule over these matters - but - I am not a lawyer. I’ve asked before and no one seems to know!
Oh I am not worried about the under advisement time frames. Having followed other cases the court tends to take its time when replying. I am not in any way an expert in US law, but from Google - 90 days seems to be the time a Judge has to rule on a case they've taken under advisement in Indiana. Rule 53.2 - Time for Holding Issue Under Advisement; Delay of Entering a Judgment, Ind. R. Civ. P. 53.2 | Casetext Search + Citator

As for the motions I think it depends, I remember the 30 day limit for a motion that gets reset every time the defence files a new pretrial motion.

All interpretations are MOO
 
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