Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

[photographer4]

Didn't that same psychologist also write in her notes that she thought he might be faking his psyche problems?
The jurors will see that and it will matter, imo.

I imagine it might be very hard to tell when someone is faking or not - Rosenhan (1973) Experiment Study

 

[photographer4]

Oh man, we need these transcripts! (ETA: How do we know, just by MS's one-sided reporting on it, that she didn't say, "There were times I thought RA was faking....but then I realized he definitely wasn't?")

I mean, I’d like the transcripts too, but to be fair, surely some actual media outlet that is not a podcaster or YouTuber would have reported on this, had she made such a statement? I wonder if her statement was pithy and short as a result of the questions she was asked that perhaps didn’t seek more clarification on this? Do we know when a transcript might be available to us?

 

[grannygates]

I imagine it might be very hard to tell when someone is faking or not - Rosenhan (1973) Experiment Study

We learned in the Letecia Stauch trial that they had testing built in for identifying malingering/feigning, so if the doctor was concerned, she could just have him do those tests?

 

[grannygates]

I mean, I’d like the transcripts too, but to be fair, surely some actual media outlet that is not a podcaster or YouTuber would have reported on this, had she made such a statement? I wonder if her statement was pithy and short as a result of the questions she was asked that perhaps didn’t seek more clarification on this? Do we know when a transcript might be available to us?

I know that they have been ordered and it’ll likely be a few weeks for them to be typed up!

 

[katydid23]

I imagine it might be very hard to tell when someone is faking or not - Rosenhan (1973) Experiment Study

Maybe, maybe not. And I am not denying he was having a meltdown of some kind.Who wouldn't?

But that does not mean he was lying when he was confessing. His guilt may have contributed to his meltdowns.

I disagree with the DTs narrative about RA being tortured and totally isolated. He was in a difficult situation because people were threatening to kill him and he was severely depressed and under suicide watch. So what is the warden supposed to do?

He was given his own tablet, so he could call his family, friends and attorneys anytime he wanted to. He could watch movies, music videos, documentaries, take online classes, anytime he desired.

Being under 'watch' 24/7 was for his own protection. He had the trustees at his door if he wanted to talk in person.

None of the above sounds like total isolation. IMO

 

[katydid23]

Well RA makes the third man to confess to this crime, so that stat rings true in this case alone. Now it’s just parsing out who is telling the truth?

Take all 3 men and compare situations.

Which one has been shown to have actually been there on the bridge at the time of the kidnapping?

Which ones have alibis proving they were not there?

Which one has confessed more than 60 times?

Which one looks like BG in the video?

 

[ClearAhead]

Well RA makes the third man to confess to this crime, so that stat rings true in this case alone. Now it’s just parsing out who is telling the truth?

But he’s the only who confessed to the murders he is charged with.

 

[MiniMoo]

If dude was *already* on the dead end side where DTH was spoken, then it’s possible imo that RA isn’t BG. It is *possible* that some dude at the dead end DTH side met the kids there - went out a ways, passing them on the bridge and then doubled back. That might explain why they film his approach from the side they started on imo.

We also have had LE try to tell us “this is BG” (sketch one and video, no wait, “THIS is BG!” (Sketch two released 2019) and they’re NOT the same person… no wait, they are the same person! They’re a combination of the same person! (We’ve discussed this many times before, so I’m not digging up the link for this again).

It is possible there was one guy who was seen and per police themselves, it is possible there were two different men who witnesses saw. Add TL who is mentioned in Franks 1 who saw the man who when sketched out officer Purdy said looked like EF and now maybe even three diff people who could have been the killer imo.

Look, I am only saying, if the state is sure of their man, their case better be super airtight and easy to follow because some jurors might be like me and others here who can’t be swayed based ONLY on what we have now… for me, RA is still not guilty BARD. I’d like him to be if he is, but so far, there just ain’t enough to make me agree to hang him for it.

I know LE have looked at the hours from the time the girls were there, but how far back did they go before the girls arrived?

Does anyone know.

How long were the minors there and who else did they see on the trail from the time they were there which was obviously before Abby and Libby as well as the creepy man?

Also, the other witness (not the drive by) that saw him, how long was she at the trail and did she see others on the trail besides the one man she described?

Surely it can't have been just one man dressed in a blue jacket or coat.

I understand they were looking around the times the girls were there, but did they go back before their arrival just in case someone was waiting around an hour or two before they happened along.

Who else was there that day before 1 pm - has that been investigated?

 

[MiniMoo]

Would it not be reasonable to believe that the person was from Delphi?

They obviously knew the lay of the land and how to get back to their vehicle.

I feel definitely a local/old resident or someone from a nearby town that knew that location really well.

 

[photographer4]

Maybe, maybe not. And I am not denying he was having a meltdown of some kind.Who wouldn't?

But that does not mean he was lying when he was confessing. His guilt may have contributed to his meltdowns.

I disagree with the DTs narrative about RA being tortured and totally isolated. He was in a difficult situation because people were threatening to kill him and he was severely depressed and under suicide watch. So what is the warden supposed to do?

He was given his own tablet, so he could call his family, friends and attorneys anytime he wanted to. He could watch movies, music videos, documentaries, take online classes, anytime he desired.

Being under 'watch' 24/7 was for his own protection. He had the trustees at his door if he wanted to talk in person.

None of the above sounds like total isolation. IMO

Sure, not total isolation given he had some access to the world beyond his cell. But how long would you be mentally ok with this set up? Also, my issue with the “trustees” as they’re called is that I do not believe they’re trustworthy whatsoever. They’re not in prison for being model citizens imo. While he could call his family and friends - how many of them were / are still willing to take his calls? And after a short while, what would he have in common with them anymore anyhow? What would they even talk about? Their lives outside the prison of course would be very different to his inside the prison, and very hard to relate to anymore. They may also increase feelings of frustration and anger, depression etc. Honestly, if you were in his position, living in the conditions he has been living in, for as long as he has been, guilty or not, how long would you be ok for do you reckon? I’d probably not last a day or two…

 

[MiniMoo]

Just wait for the mindset that will follow if he is found guilty.

It will all be just one big, giant conspiracy theory (also so dangerous) to frame him up despite whatever the actual evidence shown at trial is, and that the jurors will see and hear to render their decision will show IMO.

He could very well accept a plea bargain.

If so, and if RA is the guilty party, that plea bargain had better come with full details as to what really went down that day.

I'm still on the fence.

 

[photographer4]

But he’s the only who confessed to the murders he is charged with.

I’m so interested in these confessions!! I hope we eventually get a full write up of each and everyone of them, and as many videos to study as possible - regardless of the verdict in this case, these are going to be incredibly interesting to learn about!

 

[MiniMoo]

I'm not sure that huge number has actually been verified, but we did hear from a prison psychologist about his seriously deteriorated mental state due to the psychological torture he was experiencing, as a presumed innocent man.

The jurors will see this and it will matter.

IMO MOO

And out of that vast number of confessions what is actually considered valid?

 

[photographer4]

I know LE have looked at the hours from the time the girls were there, but how far back did they go before the girls arrived?

Does anyone know.

How long were the minors there and who else did they see on the trail from the time they were there which was obviously before Abby and Libby as well as the creepy man?

Also, the other witness (not the drive by) that saw him, how long was she at the trail and did she see others on the trail besides the one man she described?

Surely it can't have been just one man dressed in a blue jacket or coat.

I understand they were looking around the times the girls were there, but did they go back before their arrival just in case someone was waiting around an hour or two before they happened along.

Who else was there that day before 1 pm - has that been investigated?

I love this question so much!! I think this would be really good to know as well!

We know there were other men there as DG arrived - he spoke to at least one of them (flannel shirt guy). That guy told him of some couple or something that he had seen or heard… have police talked to these people to learn about what they may have noticed going on around them / the area, if anything at all? This would of course be after the kids were marched off the bridge to their deaths. But I think the before and after are super important!

If there were people there that they’re still not sure who they were, then that might be important. I’d actually even like to know who was known to hang there on any given day? I’d be curious to know how the area was used generally speaking over time vs just on this one particular afternoon.

 

[photographer4]

He could very well accept a plea bargain.

If so, and if RA is the guilty party, that plea bargain had better come with full details as to what really went down that day.

I'm still on the fence.

What do members imagine he has to offer the State at this point that they may want badly enough to offer him any kind of deal? If there was no one else involved, then what has he got to offer them? Short of a very detailed accounting of what happened that might help give the families closure (though I can’t imagine how they’ll ever find closure in all of this to be honest)…

 

[MiniMoo]

What do members imagine he has to offer the State at this point that they may want badly enough to offer him any kind of deal? If there was no one else involved, then what has he got to offer them? Short of a very detailed accounting of what happened that might help give the families closure (though I can’t imagine how they’ll ever find closure in all of this to be honest)…

I feel if the DT has no back up plan then they may go for a plea bargain.

May or may not be the situation, but if they have nothing else up their sleeves they may try for one regardless of what can be offered or not.

What bothers me though is that with plea bargains the perpetrator doesn't always need to disclose anything about the crime whatsoever which I reckon shouldn't be the case.

RA better be the right person and full disclosure should be one of the requirements if it does go down that road.

JMO

 

[grannygates]

I’m so interested in these confessions!! I hope we eventually get a full write up of each and everyone of them, and as many videos to study as possible - regardless of the verdict in this case, these are going to be incredibly interesting to learn about!

Someone will have to correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that it was stated during the prison staff testimony that the 24/7 video recording doesn’t have any audio, just video… So would the 61 be all telephone recorded ones ? I didn’t really follow what source they were including in this total number, if anyone knows the answer ?

 

[mrjitty]

I am going to wait for Judge Gulls rulings because then we will better know the shape of the trial.

MOO

 

[Vern]

“Serious mental illness” ​

A prison psychologist who met regularly with Allen testified that she also heard Allen confess to the murders. But Dr. Monica Wala said Allen’s mental health was “extremely poor, critical and deteriorating,” and that he suffered from stress-induced psychosis at the time he made his confessions.
She also testified there was “no doubt” he had serious mental illness around that time, evidenced by Allen’s attempts to “beat his head into the wall.” According to notes that Wala recorded in Allen’s medical chart:
March 23, 2023: Allen was depressed and withdrawn and said he “was not straight in the head."
April 4, 2023: Allen suffered from insomnia, hopelessness, was suicidal, and stated “death would bring relief to him."
April 13, 2023: Allen was exhibiting “bizarre” behavior, including consuming his own feces, and was suffering from a “grave disability.” The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
April 21, 2023: Allen’s thoughts were disjointed and he was saying “strange things.” Wala discussed that he might be considered incompetent to stand trial.
May 3, 2023: Allen said he wanted to confess details of the crime.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
May 23, 2023: Allen diagnosed as suffering from stress-induced psychosis.
June 8, 2023: Allen’s depression “at its peak,” noted trembling, knees buckling.

June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
Late June, 2023: Allen’s mental health improving.
October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

Lawyer Lee also did a video regarding the above article and gave more of a legal-focused approach to the events. She’s has a neutral reporting so is a good source for explaining the legal aspect of the case.

I appreciate the author giving as much detail as possible. A person definitely can’t pick it all up in handwriting notes. IMO The comment re:feigning was regarding a specific event but we’ll have to wait for transcripts for that because I don’t think an approved source has published an accurate story about that yet. I’ll share if I find one.

MOO

Did Richard Allen confess to killing two Delphi teens? Here's what we learned

Witnesses testified this week about Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's statements and behavior following his arrest.

www.indystar.com

She also said Allen met the criteria of having a serious mental illness, a designation that would've placed a 30-day limit to his solitary confinement. Wala, however, also expressed doubts about Allen's honesty.

Diener, the prosecutor, referred to Wala's notes in which she seemed to question whether Allen was purposefully behaving bizarrely. Wala acknowledged there were times she was not certain whether Allen was legitimately going through a mental health crisis or feigning psychotic behavior.

Harshman, the Indiana State Police detective, testified prison guards assigned to keep an eye on Allen when he was on suicide watch did not believe his symptoms were real.

"Yes, they believe he was faking," Harshman said.

 

[Vern]

Didn't he say he always recorded interviews?

LEs often record their interviews into their notebooks. That's been the historical practice.

Back in 2017, body cams, etc were not de rigeur and, I would think, that COs themselves are/were lower on the list to be outfitted with them.