Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

[tlcya]

A trip to Georgia​

The defense brought up for the first time Tuesday they went to Georgia on the hunt for a photo. The potential witness who allegedly had the photo had called state police back in 2017.

Neither the state nor the defense were given the photo. It was not directly addressed what the contents of the alleged photo were.

Because the defense went to Georgia to find the supposed evidence, they said they want the state to reimburse them for travel expenses. But the photo was never found during that trip.

“How can we be financially liable for something we don’t have?” McLeland said. “I don’t understand. And we don’t even know if this is evidence.”

The defense submitted as exhibits the police report from the man who called in 2017 and claimed to have the photo, and the deposition of that man later saying he couldn’t find the photo in question. The defense is asking the state to reimburse a total of $12,640 for the trip.
https://www.wane.com/news/indiana/d...re-richard-allen-should-be-held-more-motions/

As the prosecutors, I wouldn't want to pay for this fishing either. Especially since no fish were caught. Didn't the defense complain that travelling to see their client was prohibitive cost wise? But trips to find a mystery photo depicting nobody knows what that may or may not exist . . . hop a plane and head on down to Georgia. pfft

 

[FrostedGlass]

Perhaps. I really don’t know.

However, it’s a commonplace that defense lawyers in very public cases get, of course, publicity.

Publicity like this is worth millions. José Baez, Johnny Cochran, etc. became famous in successfully defending their clients and that typically brings in many more clients. Plus their names and faces in the news.

IMO

Do you think if this D team successfully defends RA, they will become rich and famous like the ones you mentioned. How to compare small town America attys to ones already rich and famous like Cochran?

I imagine a win for them would be huge emotionally.

 

[grannygates]

Perhaps. I really don’t know.

However, it’s a commonplace that defense lawyers in very public cases get, of course, publicity.

Publicity like this is worth millions. José Baez, Johnny Cochran, etc. became famous in successfully defending their clients and that typically brings in many more clients. Plus their names and faces in the news.

IMO

This filing goes into detail regarding the issues with funding for the defense. As of the date of this filing, it had been 5 months of nonpayment for their fees and invoices. Imagine your employer not paying you for 5 months.

The lawyers are only receiving $100/hr for their legal fees, and then they’re having to pay for all these additional items out of pocket. They’re basically paying out of pocket to represent RA.

The prosecution gets a salary and doesn’t have to continually submit invoices to get paid. the prosecution doesn’t have to get special funding to use ISP resources etc. Its completely unmatched when it comes to resources available to each side.

https://www.scribd.com/document/714950553/Delphi-Motion-Defense-Costs

 

[ClearAhead]

I doubt Judge Gull feels that way now.

IMO MOO

I’d think 150 hours of telephone talk might prove favorable treatment IMO

Prosecutors say Delphi murders suspect confessed 60 times.

In a three-day hearing this week in the case against Richard Allen, damning testimony came to light about the alleged murder weapon, jailhouse confessions and the role of an Odinist cult

www.independent.co.uk

“Allen first began to confess in late March 2023 when he had an apparent “come to Jesus” moment, said the officer – who had reviewed around 150 hours of calls.

In the confessions, Harshman said Allen spoke “very specifically” about some of the details of the crime including his alleged motivations.”

 

[TTF14]

These old articles, both from early 2018, referencing Tennessee and then Georgia - add to the strangeness.

jmo

Tennessee sheriff's office inadvertently put out wrong info on Delphi double killings

Abby Williams, 13, and Libby German, 14, vanished while hiking on Feb. 13, 2017.

abcnews.go.com

Georgia investigators, FBI review Delphi case

Finding Abby and Libby’s killer remains a top priority for investigators - even a year later - and they are using every resource available to them to help them solve the crime.

www.wrtv.com

I have a really hard time believing that investigators never got a photo (or photos) from this guy.

 

[TTF14]

I’d think 150 hours of telephone talk might prove favorable treatment IMO

Prosecutors say Delphi murders suspect confessed 60 times.

In a three-day hearing this week in the case against Richard Allen, damning testimony came to light about the alleged murder weapon, jailhouse confessions and the role of an Odinist cult

www.independent.co.uk

“Allen first began to confess in late March 2023 when he had an apparent “come to Jesus” moment, said the officer – who had reviewed around 150 hours of calls.

In the confessions, Harshman said Allen spoke “very specifically” about some of the details of the crime including his alleged motivations.”

Favorable treatment over convicted felons, right? Treating RA poorly, and letting him talk in recorded phone calls....sounds like strategy.

IMO MOO

 

[grannygates]

A trip to Georgia​

The defense brought up for the first time Tuesday they went to Georgia on the hunt for a photo. The potential witness who allegedly had the photo had called state police back in 2017.

Neither the state nor the defense were given the photo. It was not directly addressed what the contents of the alleged photo were.

Because the defense went to Georgia to find the supposed evidence, they said they want the state to reimburse them for travel expenses. But the photo was never found during that trip.

“How can we be financially liable for something we don’t have?” McLeland said. “I don’t understand. And we don’t even know if this is evidence.”

The defense submitted as exhibits the police report from the man who called in 2017 and claimed to have the photo, and the deposition of that man later saying he couldn’t find the photo in question. The defense is asking the state to reimburse a total of $12,640 for the trip.
https://www.wane.com/news/indiana/d...re-richard-allen-should-be-held-more-motions/

As the prosecutors, I wouldn't want to pay for this fishing either. Especially since no fish were caught. Didn't the defense complain that travelling to see their client was prohibitive cost wise? But trips to find a mystery photo depicting nobody knows what that may or may not exist . . . hop a plane and head on down to Georgia. pfft

I’m confused. We all know what the photo was? It was the mimicked crime scene photo from the Facebook that the defense used in depositions and references continually throughout the court filings and I believe even showed witnesses at the hearing. Nicks defense to the motion for sanctions was why would I be in trouble for destroying a photo if you found it elsewhere?

Edited to add screenshot of Defense confirming the photos were collected and are in possession of defense and law enforcement.

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf - ANDREW J. BALDWIN

pdfhost.io

 

[steeltowngirl]

I have a really hard time believing that investigators never got a photo (or photos) from this guy.

Ok. Adding the Georgia guy, who couldn’t find the photo, to the list of members of the alleged conspiracy.

jmo

 

[photographer4]

If RA is perpetrator I think it’s unlikely he would have kept any trophies in his home, or any devices that have incriminating evidence. I think he would have known that there is a reasonable chance that DD tip would come back at him at some point. And yes, I think he would have had a reasonable suspicion of arrest as soon as LE got back in touch.
What does puzzle me is that he kept his car, and I imagine (again if he is guilty) that he would have had concerns around blood evidence in the car and sold it at some point. Also kept the gun, although to be fair he may have thought safe as he didn’t use it, and the bullet wasn’t made public until PCA.

I’d be interested to know what sort of things he was googling in the months before and after the murder. Did he search things like how to get rid of blood stains? Did he google anything to do with odinism? Did he search the kid’s online - looking for their social media accounts or anything? Did he make comments in any of the social media groups created since the kids were killed? Did he follow the case online wondering what LE might have known about him? Did he google how to destroy a camera / memory card etc? I don’t recall if LE took any devices from the home in the SW aside the many cell phones - did they take any PCS or tablets?

 

[tlcya]

I have a really hard time believing that investigators never got a photo (or photos) from this guy.

so is the unnamed guy who claimed to have a photo and then later during deposition said he couldn't locate said photo lying? Or do you think he just forgot that he gave it to investigators at some point? Because if he HAD given some photo to investigators I would think his deposition testimony would state that. Instead he apparently said he couldn't find it.

To me that would suggest he probably never had the photo, not that investigators got it and hid it.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Favorable treatment over convicted felons, right? Treating RA poorly, and letting him talk in recorded phone calls....sounds like strategy.

IMO MOO

"Letting him talk in recorded phone calls "

That is protocol for anyone incarcerated or awaiting trial.

JMO

 

[TTF14]

Ok. Adding the Georgia guy, who couldn’t find the photo, to the list of members of the alleged conspiracy.

jmo

Not at all what I meant.

 

[grannygates]

This is also a paragraph of the Motion to Compel regarding the Georgia photo, confirming receipt of the images by defense and the photos being shown to and confirmed by LE during depositions. I blacked out the 3rd party names.

https://www.scribd.com/document/712825934/Motion-to-Compel-and-Request-for-Sanctions

 

[Ravenmoon]

I’m confused. We all know what the photo was? It was the mimicked crime scene photo from the Facebook that the defense used in depositions and references continually throughout the court filings and I believe even showed witnesses at the hearing. Nicks defense to the motion for sanctions was why would I be in trouble for destroying a photo if you found it elsewhere?

Edited to add screenshot of Defense confirming the photos were collected and are in possession of defense and law enforcement.
View attachment 524086

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf - ANDREW J. BALDWIN

pdfhost.io

Isn't this the same photo that came from a post in 2012?

If it was on Facebook, I don't understand why travel was at all necessary.

 

[photographer4]

If the 3- day hearing had been favorable to the defense, would you have expected news reports to be silent and non-transparent? So it happens but it was anything but, even the testimony of defence witnesses was lacking in favor of the D.

How much money did the D collect from the public, what did they do to deserve that? MS gave up 3 days of their life to sit through the hearings, as did various media reporters who get paid by the company they work for.

MOO

MS made a choice to be there and one has to wonder why? I imagine it is quite profitable for them to be there as then they spent however long creating social media content to share with (sell to) to the masses. I imagine if it were not so profitable, they wouldn’t bother. In regards to the $ collected via the fundraiser, if the public donated to it, then so be it. They were free to do so or not do so -just as people are free to consume or decline to consume social media around this case imo.

 

[TTF14]

"Letting him talk in recorded phone calls "

That is protocol for anyone incarcerated or awaiting trial.

JMO

Exactly.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Exactly.

Huh?
I really don't understand the point that you are making.

 

[grannygates]

Isn't this the same photo that came from a post in 2012?

If it was on Facebook, I don't understand why travel was at all necessary.

Because the photo was ”lost” by law enforcement and allegations of destruction of evidence are a big deal. The attorneys likely wanted to interview or depose the man who reportedly spoke to several LE and submitted exculpatory evidence that went “missing”.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Because the photo was ”lost” by law enforcement and allegations of destruction of evidence are a big deal. The attorneys likely wanted to interview or depose the man who reportedly spoke to several LE and submitted exculpatory evidence that went “missing”.

I am sorry, how in the world is a photo from 2012 exculpatory?

 

[ClearAhead]

Favorable treatment over convicted felons, right? Treating RA poorly, and letting him talk in recorded phone calls....sounds like strategy.

IMO MOO

My understanding this about keeping him safe. If he wasn’t kept safe from other prisioners who would be inclined to beat a child murderer to a pulp, the prison would be liable. If the prison hadn’t granted him liberty to talk on the phone that’d be deemed cruel treatment. Did the telephone calls force him to confess? That can’t be so because his wife and mother discouraged him from confessing to them.

Surely he was smart enough to realize a confession would not grant him a ‘get out of jail for free’ card. The only motivation mentioned for his confessions that makes sense to me was he found religious. Innocent people who have committed no sins have no reason or need to cleanse their soul.

JMO