Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

[Vern]

Ok. Adding the Georgia guy, who couldn’t find the photo, to the list of members of the alleged conspiracy.

jmo

And also add basicly every security camera in every store over every entrance and cash register, institution and place all over America that records footage without audio.

 

[TTF14]

And also add basicly every security camera in every store over every entrance and cash register, institution and place all over America that records footage without audio.

How does that relate to this case, though?

 

[grannygates]

I am sorry, how in the world is a photo from 2012 exculpatory?

I don’t know the year of the photo but regardless of the date- if the photo is showing this person mimicking crime scene that is a direct match to the unique way this crime scene was arranged and left, that would be an important connection that this person may be involved.

<modsnip - speculation outside the bounds of the known facts of the case>

 

[Boxer]

K

Have you ever heard of anyone in 'solitary confinement' having the ability to call their wife or parents from their own tablet from their cell? Or anyone else they wanted to call, like their attorney or their friends?

Have you ever heard of anyone in 'solitary confinement' having a tablet so they can watch movies, or listen to music, or take classes, or order a book ob kindle, whenever they felt like it?

Have you ever heard of someone in 'solitary confinement' having trustees, sitting right at their door, talking or listening to them, 24/7? That does not sound like they were very solitary.

These articles you refer to are talking about people with NO CONTACT OR COMMUNICATION with friends or loved ones. No ability to watch films or listen to music or podcasts, etc. He can do ALL of the above whenever he wants to.

Yes, the facility has segregation as a way to keep prisoners who are targets safe. If you get charged with a heinous crime, and there is enough evidence to deny you bail, then it is your hope not to die by another prisoner until your trial.
But If your attorneys are loving the gig and extending it as much as possible your time as an accused mounts up.
Being wrongfully accused does not usually cause an innocent person to eat the discovery and other weird behaviors, but when prisoners do start doing dangerous things the prison the has a crazy person or a faker to house on their hands in addition to the prisoner being a target.

Maybe he should have been at the Carrol County Sheriff Station all this time where he could have reminded them daily to do better.

 

[TTF14]

I am sorry, how in the world is a photo from 2012 exculpatory?

It does seem like a stretch since it was 5 years before the murders (if it's only this one photo). I doubt it will be allowed in (but I've lost the plot now....are they even asking for it to be allowed in?). It's a creepy photo and I don't know why anyone would find it entertaining, but without any context, it's impossible to know what it was all about. I think I even read somewhere that it was a photo of children, but from what I saw, it looked like adults.

This all kinda reminds me of all of the hullabaloo over Wendi Adelson's book she wrote long before she participated in hiring hit men to kill her husband, Dan Markel. It speaks to what was important to her and what kind of person she was, but isn't evidence of wrong doing. (She's guilty as hell, though.)

IMO MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

This is also a paragraph of the Motion to Compel regarding the Georgia photo, confirming receipt of the images by defense and the photos being shown to and confirmed by LE during depositions. I blacked out the 3rd party names.

View attachment 524088

https://www.scribd.com/document/712825934/Motion-to-Compel-and-Request-for-Sanctions

What does a “faked crime scene image” mean?

Phoney, unauthentic, doctored, photoshopped?

 

[Boxer]

P

It's entirely possible RA did intend to shoot the girls. In the back. Maybe that's how a bullet ended up between them. Chambered bullet ejected, next one jammed, girls tried to run. He could have caught Abby by the hood, injured her lethally, then reached Libby, 70 feet away. Carrying Abby back the short distance to his chosen place and dragging Libby there.

For all I know, the gun was his intended weapon of choice and he always carried a utility knife of some sorr, just as a matter of course. And it only became the murder weapon because the first one failed.

JMO

That sounds pretty reasonable.

 

[grannygates]

What does a “faked crime scene image” mean?

Phoney, unauthentic, doctored, photoshopped?

“Mimicked crime scene image” is what it is commonly referred to in this case.

 

[TTF14]

I don’t know the year of the photo but regardless of the date- if the photo is showing this person mimicking crime scene that is a direct match to the unique way this crime scene was arranged and left, that would be an important connection that this person may be involved.

<modsnip - speculation outside the bounds of the known facts of the case>

To me, it seems more likely that someone was trying to frame BH by trying to mimic that photo, rather than BH doing it himself. Maybe the person had been studying BH's FB, saw that photo, and then went from memory in arranging the crime scene. To me, it's far from an exact match, although there are of course similarities.

IMO MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

It's entirely possible RA did intend to shoot the girls. In the back. Maybe that's how a bullet ended up between them. Chambered bullet ejected, next one jammed, girls tried to run. He could have caught Abby by the hood, injured her lethally, then reached Libby, 70 feet away. Carrying Abby back the short distance to his chosen place and dragging Libby there.

For all I know, the gun was his intended weapon of choice and he always carried a utility knife of some sorr, just as a matter of course. And it only became the murder weapon because the first one failed.

JMO

Yes it’s said there’s no such thing as a perfect crime. So it’s possible RA was reliving over and over the sequence of events because it hadn’t gone as he planned in his mind.

MOO

 

[Arkay]

The prosecution gets a salary and doesn’t have to continually submit invoices to get paid. the prosecution doesn’t have to get special funding to use ISP resources etc. Its completely unmatched when it comes to resources available to each side.

Yes, but no.

Prosecutors are government employees who are assigned, not hired, and make a government level salary.

Defense attorneys are hired by clients. Even when they work pro bono, on a case that receives so much attention they raise their profiles among the clientele out there, and can get privately hired for much, much, much more than a prosecutor will ever make.

IMO

 

[ClearAhead]

“Mimicked crime scene image” is what it is commonly referred to in this case.

Well that’s backwards. A 2012 photo cannot ‘fake’ a crime scene that doesn’t happen until in 2017.

Is the word supposed to be ‘replicate’? Regardless Odinism has already passed its day, regardless of how panicked or desperate the D get. IMO verging upon totally ridiculous. They’ve no other way to defend RA because they put all their eggs in one basket?

IMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

I don’t know the year of the photo but regardless of the date- if the photo is showing this person mimicking crime scene that is a direct match to the unique way this crime scene was arranged and left, that would be an important connection that this person may be involved.

<modsnip - speculation outside the bounds of the known facts of the case>

I am truly confused now.
It's impossible for the photo to depict the crime scene if it was posted before the actual crime.

I am also reading that LE was not in possession of the photo, <modsnip - quoted post was snipped>

I must be misunderstanding something.

 

[tlcya]

I’m confused. We all know what the photo was? It was the mimicked crime scene photo from the Facebook that the defense used in depositions and references continually throughout the court filings and I believe even showed witnesses at the hearing. Nicks defense to the motion for sanctions was why would I be in trouble for destroying a photo if you found it elsewhere?

Edited to add screenshot of Defense confirming the photos were collected and are in possession of defense and law enforcement.
View attachment 524086

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf - ANDREW J. BALDWIN

pdfhost.io

so the guy lied in his deposition when he said he couldn't find them? Or he couldn't find them but later did when Defense went on their fishing trip?

Weren't these the photos that were debunked because they in fact did NOT mimic the crime scene?

 

[grannygates]

so the guy lied in his deposition when he said he couldn't find them? Or he couldn't find them but later did when Defense went on their fishing trip?

Weren't these the photos that were debunked because they in fact did NOT mimic the crime scene?

Ive already shared two paragraphs confirming that the defense collected the image and shared it with law enforcement. I don’t really understand the quote from Nick or what the context is. I think it’s a misquote because haven’t read anything written by Prosecution stating that the images were unable to be collected. Links are above. Franks and Motion to Compel.

 

[photographer4]

In my opinion, no.
Cicero is an expert.
I trust that the print was made by Libby. Libby was a powerhouse. She made that print while standing, while struggling to live, after clutching her wounded neck to stop the bleeding according to Cicero.


IMO,.this crime was not in any way ritualistic. This crime was a sexually motivated murder carried out by a disturbed, obsessed man that hid in plain sight for years.

I understand that the state’s guy is considered an expert and will have way more experience than I do, however, I do not see that as being from LG’s hand as she clutched the tree. I cannot imagine one being mortally wounded and removing their hand from the wound except maybe to defend against another incoming blow.

I wonder, if she was bleeding from her neck, and it was a mortal wound, was there a pattern of blood spray found in the area where investigators expected to find it? Eg: if she clutched the tree as she was bleeding out, then did they find blood sprayed around the area in front of where the “handprint” / “fehu” was? If not, why not? Was it just because it was outside and thus possibly harder to see / find / detect? Like if she was upright, and she grabbed the tree, I’d have expected there to be some blood in front of the handprint on the ground in the direction she was facing when she is thought to have grabbed it.

I was also wondering, did she have blood spray / drip down her neck onto her body? If not, then I guess it was cleaned up some? I do think it is possible that it was a mark that was “painted” on intentionally by someone. For whatever reason. If that was her handprint, would investigators have been able to lift a handprint from the mark? I don’t know a lot about it, so that’s a genuine question. If not, why not?

 

[photographer4]

Have you ever heard of anyone in 'solitary confinement' having the ability to call their wife or parents from their own tablet from their cell? Or anyone else they wanted to call, like their attorney or their friends?

Have you ever heard of anyone in 'solitary confinement' having a tablet so they can watch movies, or listen to music, or take classes, or order a book ob kindle, whenever they felt like it?

Have you ever heard of someone in 'solitary confinement' having trustees, sitting right at their door, talking or listening to them, 24/7? That does not sound like they were very solitary.

These articles you refer to are talking about people with NO CONTACT OR COMMUNICATION with friends or loved ones. No ability to watch films or listen to music or podcasts, etc. He can do ALL of the above whenever he wants to.

But add to his plight, he is accused - not convicted and living in a tiny cell, locked. He cannot come and go as he pleases. House arrest is bad enough - imagine doing it in a tiny tiny concrete cell? I’m sorry but what they’ve done to him is NOT ok. If this were your loved one, or you, how ok would you be with the treatment? Absent a guilty verdict, this is unacceptable imo.

 

[Vern]

How does that relate to this case, though?

Weren't there concerns raised about there aparently being no audio with the video? Seems to me that's actuallu quite normal for security cameras (vice surveilance cameras).

 

[TTF14]

I understand that the state’s guy is considered an expert and will have way more experience than I do, however, I do not see that as being from LG’s hand as she clutched the tree. I cannot imagine one being mortally wounded and removing their hand from the wound except maybe to defend against another incoming blow.

I wonder, if she was bleeding from her neck, and it was a mortal wound, was there a pattern of blood spray found in the area where investigators expected to find it? Eg: if she clutched the tree as she was bleeding out, then did they find blood sprayed around the area in front of where the “handprint” / “fehu” was? If not, why not? Was it just because it was outside and thus possibly harder to see / find / detect? Like if she was upright, and she grabbed the tree, I’d have expected there to be some blood in front of the handprint on the ground in the direction she was facing when she is thought to have grabbed it.

I was also wondering, did she have blood spray / drip down her neck onto her body? If not, then I guess it was cleaned up some? I do think it is possible that it was a mark that was “painted” on intentionally by someone. For whatever reason. If that was her handprint, would investigators have been able to lift a handprint from the mark? I don’t know a lot about it, so that’s a genuine question. If not, why not?

I wonder, too, if they can lift fingerprints from tree bark. And was that section of bark removed and taken to a lab? Was there any mention of a paintbrush in either RL's or RA's search warrant?

 

[grannygates]

Have you ever heard of anyone in 'solitary confinement' having the ability to call their wife or parents from their own tablet from their cell? Or anyone else they wanted to call, like their attorney or their friends?

Have you ever heard of anyone in 'solitary confinement' having a tablet so they can watch movies, or listen to music, or take classes, or order a book ob kindle, whenever they felt like it?

Have you ever heard of someone in 'solitary confinement' having trustees, sitting right at their door, talking or listening to them, 24/7? That does not sound like they were very solitary.

These articles you refer to are talking about people with NO CONTACT OR COMMUNICATION with friends or loved ones. No ability to watch films or listen to music or podcasts, etc. He can do ALL of the above whenever he wants to.

He isn’t a convicted inmate. He’s a pretrial detainee so of course he has more privileges than the convicted inmate next to him.

A fair comparison would be to another pretrial detainee held on similar charges. The motion to transfer from Scremin and Lebrato gives detail if you want to know the lawyers comparisons from their prospective of having clients charged with murder.

Richard Allen's attorney request transfer from Wabash Valley Correctional Facility

Attorneys Robert Scremin and William Lebrato filed the six page motion this week asking for Allen to be moved to a closer location, or their ability to represent Allen may be impacted.

www.wrtv.com