Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Do you think RA will plead out if he is given the opportunity?

 

[TTF14]

I see some movement in the courtroom!

View attachment 524130

I hope this doesn't mean JG is going to wait until the 23rd to render her decisions on the outstanding motions.

 

[TTF14]

Do you think RA will plead out if he is given the opportunity?

No. Too much reasonable doubt.

 

[photographer4]

I'd say MS-13 is a gang and only a gang. It is an extremely violent gang at that and it is not a religion and not affiliated with any religion. So I do think it's different. The 2 guards in question here have said in sworn affidavits they are not practicing Odinism. To say they are wearing these patches to show affiliation with a prison gang is not correct. They were cleared of any wrongdoing and they removed the patches when it was order that they do so.

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Prosecution responds to defense’s ‘ritualistic’ murder theory in Delphi case, calls Odinism theory ‘unfounded’

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. – The Carroll County Prosecutor’s Office filed its response to several allegations made by attorneys for Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen. In a series of documents filed in …

fox59.com

In sworn affidavits submitted Tuesday, guards assigned to Allen said they were not practitioners of Odinism. One did say he wore patches specific to a “religious higher power, the same way a Christian person would wear a cross.”

Another guard, in a sworn affidavit, said he practiced “Norse Paganism Heathenry,” and wore patches that could be mistaken for Odinism but were not related to a cult or hate group.

The guards did say they removed the patches from their uniforms in September at the order of their commanders.

And then one got a tattoo, on his face no less….Franks 1.

 

[Salah11]

Do you think RA will plead out if he is given the opportunity?

I naively hope he will pled Guilty when he realizes how incompetent his defense are and they are leading him a fine old dance with no happy ending.

IMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

I recall someone being verified, but if it wasn't Salah then I cannot for the life of me recall who.

ETA It was @Seph

Thank you!
I am hoping that she will help navigate this discussion appropriately.

 

[photographer4]

I won't argue if it is appropriate in the workplace because I don't believe it is.

as to the rest of your question, an answer will not be forthcoming no matter how many times you ask it, as it is not relevant to this discussion and I would prefer not to be reported for being off topic. IMO, this case, despite attempts of the defense to make it so, has nothing to do with race.

It was / is a rhetorical question. No one needs to actually answer it.

 

[photographer4]

Do you think RA will plead out if he is given the opportunity?

If I were his lawyer, knowing only what is available at the moment? I’d advise him not to. I’d advise him to sit tight until trial and see what happens.

 

[photographer4]

Thank you!
I am hoping that she will help navigate this discussion appropriately.

I wonder, if she declines the theory presentation by the D of SODDI (Odins) did it, will the D swing over to KK and his dad did it or?

If she denies SODDI at all, I wonder if that alone will be a good basis for the D to file appeal on a guilty verdict?

 

[Vern]

I'm not sure what you mean. COs wearing Odinist patches or having Odin tattoos are not in fact Odinists? Why would they be wearing the patches and tattoos then? Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

The allegation also includes a hint of "Odinists are white supremacists [a false allegation] and are thus intimidating RA somehow by default." I wonder if any of them at DoC have a crucifix around their neck or a cross tattoo or patch (probably not now that's for sure). Same thing, only different religions. Would we be hearing the same uproar if it had been crucifixs instead (IMO, I doubt it).

And no, I don't agree with the patches being worn in uniform and it quite appears to have been outside of Indiana guidelines: https://www.in.gov/idoc/files/polic...es/02-03-104-Uniform-Guidelines-12-1-2018.pdf

 

[ClearAhead]

I see some movement in the courtroom!

View attachment 524130

This could indicate the Judge’s rulings are impending and by August 23rd she wants to know if both sides are ready and set for the trial Oct 15th. If the rulings haven’t been released, I can’t think why it’d be necessary to hold a Status Hearing. MOO

 

[TTF14]

I wonder, if she declines the theory presentation by the D of SODDI (Odins) did it, will the D swing over to KK and his dad did it or?

If she denies SODDI at all, I wonder if that alone will be a good basis for the D to file appeal on a guilty verdict?

I think you quoted the wrong post, but I think if JG allows the SODDI defense, which she should and probably will, they can go ahead and put both theories out there, can't they? BOTH are reasonable alternative suspects, IMO.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think presenting a SODDI defense means they have to prove it to the point of conviction, do they?

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

This could indicate the Judge’s rulings are impending and by August 23rd she wants to know if both sides are ready and set for the trial Oct 15th. If the rulings haven’t been released, I can’t think why it’d be necessary to hold a Status Hearing. MOO

Thank you. This makes sense.

 

[Vern]

I wonder, if she declines the theory presentation by the D of SODDI (Odins) did it, will the D swing over to KK and his dad did it or?

If she denies SODDI at all, I wonder if that alone will be a good basis for the D to file appeal on a guilty verdict?

I would think that as an expert in Odinism, she could rule out/in an Odinistic Ritual Sacrifice killing in this case if she had access to the evidence.

I don't think that would make her an expert in ruling in/out any other SODDI though.

 

[justtrish]

I'll just say one more thing about these guards and the patches. I can see where it looks bad and once it was brought to the attention of the prison, they were asked to remove the patches and they did. They had to provide a sworn statement and their actions are all recorded. If there was any mistreatment of RA it would be on video. They have stated they followed prison policy when dealing with RA. If the video backs them up, then it isn't their actions that are the issue. If the policy needs to change then that is one thing, but that isn't the fault of the guards that were following protocol for dealing with the inmates.

I think these 2 guards were just the 2 easy targets for the defense to make their claims to try to get RA moved. I doubt these guards even knew the defense was planning to lay out some Odin connection to try to show RA wasn't guilty. In order for them to be using this Odin thinking/belief to intimidate him, wouldn't they need to know this was even a scenario that the defense was going to use? How could they know wearing a patch would be some link to the defenses theory of the crime that RA is accused of? It was just something the defense could add on as to a reason why RA was confessing to anyone and everyone. To my knowledge the Odin angle wasn't even presented to anyone at the point that RA was confessing and certainly not before April 3rd or 4th when he told his wife. I mean how would the guards know the defense was going to say the murders were an Odin ritual killing? Did RA even know what those patches were or did he even see the patches?? Has he said he was intimidated by these guards were the patches or is this the defense saying this bad treatment was because the guards had these beliefs?

RE the tattoo on the face. I can see where someone would be upset about these accusations. It was a disgusting attempt by the defense to insinuate they were covering up for a real child murderer and acting this way toward RA to intimidate him to get him to confess to a crime he didn't commit.. so the real killer could go free?? Prison guards do not have an easy job and if I were one and I was following protocols and then had a defense team in there making these accusations that caused all this chaos for me and my workplace.. I might be ticked off enough to get a tattoo... well not on my face (not my style, but I have a full sleeve and many other tattoos) I can understand their anger at the situation. If someone tried to use my Christianity against me or to say because of it I must be xyz and then suggested me wearing a cross or having some faith based clothing item was somehow me trying to intimidate someone and it impacted my work AND it was high profile like this and now my name was smeared all the internet.. ugh I'd be real darn mad.

 

[Vern]

I think you quoted the wrong post, but I think if JG allows the SODDI defense, which she should and probably will, they can go ahead and put both theories out there, can't they? BOTH are reasonable alternative suspects, IMO.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think presenting a SODDI defense means they have to prove it to the point of conviction, do they?

IMO MOO

Which Odinist suspects? The ones the defence alleged did this were ruled out ... even by their own testimony LE could NOT, NOT place any of them at the scene.

 

[Salah11]

I am hoping the Odins did it is thrown out. I trust MS and they say they didn’t meet the burden of proof needed for trial.

None of their so called suspects can be placed in
Delphi and have been investigated throughly.

So I have my fingers and toes crossed this comes to fruition.

IMO MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

I wonder, if she declines the theory presentation by the D of SODDI (Odins) did it, will the D swing over to KK and his dad did it or?

If she denies SODDI at all, I wonder if that alone will be a good basis for the D to file appeal on a guilty verdict?

It been stated by several legal experts that a SODDI theory requires proof that the accused was also at the crime scene when the crime occurred (ie had opportunity to commit the crime). They can’t just pick a name and accuse anyone. That seems reasonable. After all, how could some other dude do it if he wasn’t even there? The D may well have to go the old-fashioned route by trying to refute the evidence the P puts forth. MOO

 

[justtrish]

Which Odinist suspects? The ones the defence alleged did this were ruled out ... even by their own testimony LE could NOT, NOT place any of them at the scene.

And I think LE would have liked nothing more than to have placed one of them at the scene way back when. I think everyone close to this case would have preferred that this be wrapped up a long time ago.. like in 2017 so if any of those other guys could have been placed in Delphi even, I am sure we would have seen an arrest long ago.

 

[TTF14]

I am hoping the Odins did it is thrown out. I trust MS and they say they didn’t meet the burden of proof needed for trial.

None of their so called suspects can be placed in
Delphi and have been investigated throughly.

So I have my fingers and toes crossed this comes to fruition.

IMO MOO

I'd love to see a panel of like 5 or 6 attorneys discussing/debating this. Including KG from the MS.