Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #191

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Can’t cellabrite or greykey tell if a phone was manually turned on? If they have multiple phone extractions using different software, including one for FEB14, the experts should know this answer ?
 

Let's stick with 4:30 a.m., not 4:33. They may be rounding or I may be remembering wrong.

ETA: I don't know why that link looks so weird. It looks like it included my search terms. It does work, though.
Thank you.

I am sure that this is no huge surprise, but I'm hesitant to take this as fact. The article says

"While investigators believe Abby and Libby were abducted at 2:14 p.m. on that Monday and dead within 18 minutes, the defense claims Libby’s cell phone was quiet for more than 12 hours before suddenly turning on again and receiving text messages at 4:30 the next morning, some seven hours before the bodies were discovered."

It's a defense claim.
I have serious trust issues with the defense.

I do appreciate the link!
 
No problem. It will be good to know which way she rules, once she releases them, because it will greatly impact the upcoming trial. MOO

Wish we could do polls here! I think JG will rule in favor of SODDI and against suppressing the confessions (but hopefully allow Dr. Wala and any other psych. experts).

IMO MOO
 
What I read was "made contact with the tower"

Which can happen in many different ways. My phone goes to sleep if it's at 1% battery, and then "idles" for many hours, killing off its network connection, 3g, 4g, WiFi everything. Before it turns off for good, 4, 5 hrs later, the screen lights up, which means that it disables the idle mode, which in turn means it would have network connection for that tiny amount of time before it turns off for good.

That's... I suppose my informed opinion on tech things? I do have android but a lot of smartphones work similarly.

Cellphones have remarkable capabilities. I wonder if there’s a function to intentionally make one last attempt at a network connection at the very end of battery life to assist, for example in finding a lost or missing person.
 
Cellphones have remarkable capabilities. I wonder if there’s a function to intentionally make one last attempt at a network connection at the very end of battery life to assist, for example in finding a lost or missing person.
Don’t know. We will have to wait for an expert. It could throw a big wrench into the timeline of the murders, nullifying many alibis.

IMO MOO
 
Don’t know. We will have to wait for an expert. It could throw a big wrench into the timeline of the murders, nullifying many alibis.

IMO MOO

It won’t because there were searchers out there I believe so the killer was gone by 3.30pm.

No killer was out there while searchers were around.

Moo
 
The phone did a phone thing. It went unnoticed because the two bodies near it were deceased, had been that way for hours. The phone had one last burst of activity/connectivity before it too went silent.

Not complicated.

JMO
That's the definition of the simplest explanation that fits the data - is usually the most likely one. IMO
 
At what time? Libby’s phone powering back on and receiving texts at 4:30 am throws quite the wrench into the timeline narrative.

IMO
Libby's phone powering back on has always been a question mark; can anyone remind the reliable source reporting? Does this fit with the 'official LE/DC statement that it was "all over very quickly"? Big sigh over the way we still seek any possible light shed after all these years in a court of law and outside...
 
But add to his plight, he is accused - not convicted and living in a tiny cell, locked. He cannot come and go as he pleases. House arrest is bad enough - imagine doing it in a tiny tiny concrete cell? I’m sorry but what they’ve done to him is NOT ok. If this were your loved one, or you, how ok would you be with the treatment? Absent a guilty verdict, this is unacceptable imo.
Who expects to be incarcerated and have their cell door UNLOCKED? That makes no sense.

Of course he cannot come and go as he pleases. No inmates come and go as they please. Gen Pop have more lenience, but they cannot walk around unprotected if they are charged with violent crimes against children, so they are going to be separated.

Even if only being accused and not convicted, if he is not out on bail he is going to be held against his will, behind a locked door for most of the day. That's the way it works because we cannot let violent people walk around in public.

You keep calling his pod very very tiny but IIRC, it was a 2 man pod and he was the only one living there. And he had access to his own tablet which could make calls and could play movies and music and kindle books. So he was not left alone in a dark hole with no contact or mental stimulation. IMO
 
At what time? Libby’s phone powering back on and receiving texts at 4:30 am throws quite the wrench into the timeline narrative.

IMO
Not really. It seems clear that iPhones have a common glitch, which causes the phones to turn off and on by themselves IF exposed to heat or water, or is damaged, or battery is dying.



What does it mean when my iPhone keeps turning on and off?


Why does the iPhone keep turning off and on by itself? Your battery is too old or damaged. Your iPhone has software glitches and bugs. You have exposed your iPhone to heat or water, causing the device to shut down and turn on by itself.Apr 1, 2024
[URL='https://simplyfixable.com/blog-detail/iphone-turns-itself-off#:~:text=on%20by%20itself.-,Why%20does%20the%20iPhone%20keep%20turning%20off%20and%20on%20by,and%20turn%20on%20by%20itself.']

iPhone Turns Itself Off. Try These Quick 4 Ways to Fix

1723501886668.png
Simply Fixable
https://simplyfixable.co[/URL]

iphone turns on and off repeatedly - Apple Community

iphone turns on and off repeatedly - Apple Community

iphone turns on and off repeatedly - Apple Community

iphone turns on and off repeatedly - Apple Community

iphone turns on and off repeatedly - Apple Community

iphone turns on and off repeatedly

1723501846517.png
Apple Discussions
https://discussions.apple.com › thread




May 24, 2022 — My iphone turns off and on repeatedly. It goes from a black screen to the apple start up screen back to the black screen.
1 answer · Top answer: Hello cami251, Thank you for reaching out to Apple Support Communities, and we'll be happy to help in any way we can. We understand you're having issues ...
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Screen keeps turning on and off - Apple Support ...
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Last edited:
I’m not quite sure what the prosecutions current explanation for the 4 am texts/pings are. I know the first response to the Franks was that there was no pings or phone activity after the last one on FEB13, the phone was off/dead/destroyed. The expert at the hearings.. didn’t he say that the phone never turned off now? It’s hard to keep them all straight but If anyone listened to the podcast, I believe they said the states current theory about that cellphone stuff. If anyone knows the answer off the top of their heads so I don’t have to search for it, I’ll be very appreciative !
 
If it was rare or unheard of for an iPhone to glitch and turn on by itself, then I'd be thrown by this report of it seemingly being turned on at 4:30 am. But as I posted above, and also posted weeks ago, IT IS A COMMON OCCURRENCE. Especially if the battery is wet or damaged or overheated. It also happens when battery is dying or if there are software glitches.

It is so common that there are several forums full of I-phone users writing in to ask why it keeps happening. So it is not some big mystery that needs answering because it is so rare. IMO


iPhone 13 powers on by itself - Apple Support ...
21 answers
Nov 25, 2021
Screen keeps turning on and off - Apple Support ...
3 answers
Mar 4, 2022
More results from discussions.apple.com
 
Thank you.

I am sure that this is no huge surprise, but I'm hesitant to take this as fact. The article says

"While investigators believe Abby and Libby were abducted at 2:14 p.m. on that Monday and dead within 18 minutes, the defense claims Libby’s cell phone was quiet for more than 12 hours before suddenly turning on again and receiving text messages at 4:30 the next morning, some seven hours before the bodies were discovered."

It's a defense claim.
I have serious trust issues with the defense.

I do appreciate the link!
I am confused - because in an earlier motion the defence claim it was 4:33am. I think they are rounding it down...

@M. Kay

The source of that information is one of the defence's motions, from what I can find online, going back to end of April this year.

MOO is that neither the defence nor the state are tech experts. At a pre-trial level they are still getting their experts together. We will hear the exact info during trial (whether it was a ping, a manual action, etc. From the Murdoch trials I am pretty confident that experts can tell if the phone was powered on manually or not). So we will find out in October. Fingers crossed.
 
I’m not quite sure what the prosecutions current explanation for the 4 am texts/pings are. I know the first response to the Franks was that there was no pings or phone activity after the last one on FEB13, the phone was off/dead/destroyed. The expert at the hearings.. didn’t he say that the phone never turned off now? It’s hard to keep them all straight but If anyone listened to the podcast, I believe they said the states current theory about that cellphone stuff. If anyone knows the answer off the top of their heads so I don’t have to search for it, I’ll be very appreciative !
Ok I found the quotes!

They are from the US SUN but. Well. The gist of it is that a new report is currently being compiled by the prosecution experts. Terrifying new evidence on Delphi victim's last moments pins trial on phone

Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee, the journalist-lawyer couple behind The Murder Sheet podcast, told The U.S. Sun the phone could play a central role in Allen's trial, which is slated to begin on October 14.

Describing testimony about the phone so far as "confusing," Greenlee said the data debate will come down to a "battle of the witnesses."

Cain, meanwhile, described the defense's version of events as farfetched.

She said, "What the defense is contending sort of speaks to someone turning the phone back on hours after the girls were abducted.

"But what was interesting was Cecil mentioning there's a new report coming out because phone data extraction techniques improve all the time, so you can keep going back to check for more information.

"He's working on that report now, so I imagine the difference is going to be that the defense will claim the phone was turned back on, and that's the only way the messages could've come through, and the prosecution will be saying it wasn't turned on, and this can happen for several reasons.

"I can't speak for any side in this, but it's probably going to come down to whose expert is more convincing."
 
If it was rare or unheard of for an iPhone to glitch and turn on by itself, then I'd be thrown by this report of it seemingly being turned on at 4:30 am. But as I posted above, and also posted weeks ago, IT IS A COMMON OCCURRENCE. Especially if the battery is wet or damaged or overheated. It also happens when battery is dying or if there are software glitches.

It is so common that there are several forums full of I-phone users writing in to ask why it keeps happening. So it is not some big mystery that needs answering because it is so rare. IMO


iPhone 13 powers on by itself - Apple Support ...
21 answers
Nov 25, 2021
Screen keeps turning on and off - Apple Support ...
3 answers
Mar 4, 2022
More results from discussions.apple.com

Wasn’t the initial D theory that the girls were kidnapped by the Odinists and taken somewhere and then their bodies were somehow brought back around 4:30am, which moved the timeline forward to incriminate others who had no alibi for that time? But we heard during the recent hearings due to the blood at the crime scene the girls died near where they were found and so that effectively kiboshes that theory.

So what comes next?

Enter an even more far fetched scenario, an Odinist snuck back to turn on Libby’s cellphone at 4:30am. What on earth would be the point of that? If the phone was indeed turned on, how can the D know who did it?

How does this help RA’s defense, can someone please explain!

JMO
 

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