Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

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steeltowngirl said:
I believe we were waiting on rulings on the open issues.


“Gull heard from the defense and prosecution as she weighed multiple issues ranging from the defense’s alternate murder theory to the admissibility of reported confessions Allen made in captivity.”
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OK. I was wondering what "this matter" meant, but I think that just means "this case" and not a particular motion. Need more coffee.
 
FrostedGlass said:
The car sightings are slightly problematic for me. All three occurred between 2:10, 2:14 and 2:28.
It seems they have no sightings before or after. I'm not sure how they will get around that.
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A vehicle similar to RA's Ford 2016 is caught on video at 1:27 pm which fits in perfectly with the time RA claims he was there which was around 1:30 pm.

The minors saw the creepy man around 1:26 pm based on the photo one of them took which would likely have the date and time on it.

If the vehicle really is that of RA's and he was driving by at 1:27 pm and the minors really did see a creepy man on the trail around 1:26 pm - then the creepy man and RA can't be the same and one.

I take it the video footage doesn't show plate numbers just vehicles as they pass by left or right.

Who saw the vehicle at 2:10 pm, 2:14 pm and 2:28 pm?
 
MiniMoo said:
A vehicle similar to RA's Ford 2016 is caught on video at 1:27 pm which fits in perfectly with the time RA claims he was there which was around 1:30 pm.

The minors saw the creepy man around 1:26 pm based on the photo one of them took which would likely have the date and time on it.

If the vehicle really is that of RA's and he was driving by at 1:27 pm and the minors really did see a creepy man on the trail around 1:26 pm - then the creepy man and RA can't be the same and one.

I take it the video footage doesn't show plate numbers just vehicles as they pass by left or right.

Who saw the vehicle at 2:10 pm, 2:14 pm and 2:28 pm?
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The 2:14 was BB; the names of the other two are redacted in this document.
 
Megnut said:
I think that information wasn't presented at this hearing.

Recall, that it went quite long on the third and final day. My guess, time constraints were real.

Moreover, in that context (of the hearing), the State was responding to a specific representation of the Defense to which their expert responded. It would have taken hours IMO for him to break down all of the digital analysis which will umdoubtedly occur at trial.

I think the State is holding back their case in chief.

JMO
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It's possible it wasn't presented / discussed because there is a different witness for that stuff.

But again, this is why I don't take the defence claim at face value - as it appears they presented no evidence the phone was switched on, and the state evidence did not agree it was switched on

MOO
 
m00c0w said:
IMO, it’s about a 10 minute drive. “Give or take a few minutes” does a lot of work in that timeline. If they left the house at 1:35 (1:30 plus a few minutes), that puts them there at 1:45. If they encountered traffic, a slow driver, drove slowly themselves, that easily puts them there after BB arrived. I don’t think a couple of minutes in this particular timeline is any kind of exculpatory when RA himself initially stated he was there from 1:30 forward.

MOO
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I could see it being open to challenge exactly where the witness saw the victims on her return leg, but it is hard to see it being challenged that she did in fact see them, somewhere on her return.

Also, as the respective cars were seen by the same camera, even if camera time is a bit different to phone time, it is still internally consistent.
 

BB states that she saw 4 girls on Freedom bridge as she was heading to the trail. She would have been on Hoosier Heartland Highway going left to right on the map below. Then turning onto the little road that parallels the trail and she states she parked across from Mears farm. She walked toward MHB and then back to her car. You can see how this isn't a long section of the trail so for her to only encounter BG and then Abby and Libby doesn't seem unusual. It is out and back and only part of the total trail. One of the girls in the group took a photo of MHB at 12:43 and then a bench before Freedom bridge at 1:26. Then BB sees the girls on Freedom bridge about 1:47 when she's driving on the way to park. So the group of girls saw BG at some time after 1:26 after that photo of the bench was taken and before 1:47 when BB saw them on Freedom Bridge. If RA's car is seen heading to park at the old CPS building at 1:27, then you can see how close that building is to Freedom Bridge. It would be very easy to park and walk across that bridge and then encounter the group of girls before they are on the bridge at 1:47. That is 20 minutes time for him to walk maybe .1 of a mile or less. This map shows the trail, the 2 bridges, the old CPS building (labeled social services building), and the parking area across from Mears Farm.
MiniMoo said:
A vehicle similar to RA's Ford 2016 is caught on video at 1:27 pm which fits in perfectly with the time RA claims he was there which was around 1:30 pm.

The minors saw the creepy man around 1:26 pm based on the photo one of them took which would likely have the date and time on it.

If the vehicle really is that of RA's and he was driving by at 1:27 pm and the minors really did see a creepy man on the trail around 1:26 pm - then the creepy man and RA can't be the same and one.

I take it the video footage doesn't show plate numbers just vehicles as they pass by left or right.

Who saw the vehicle at 2:10 pm, 2:14 pm and 2:28 pm?
Click to expand...

.

mhb.jpg
 
This case is like rubber.
It is amazing how it is bent and twisted to continually try to prove RA is innocent. When one issue is proven to point to RA’s guilt, something else will be seized upon and seamlessly put out there and ridden till exhausted.
When the defense team is shown to be wrong or that they admittedly mislead and lied about things in their motions, that can’t even be discussed any longer. It is ignored.
LE is continually accused of being part of a conspiracy encompassing, at this point, most of the continental United States, but the defense team, who has been making stuff up with the purpose of misleading the public, is worshipped and defended like teenage rock idols.
Whatever it takes I guess.
 
mrjitty said:
I could see it being open to challenge exactly where the witness saw the victims on her return leg, but it is hard to see it being challenged that she did in fact see them, somewhere on her return.

Also, as the respective cars were seen by the same camera, even if camera time is a bit different to phone time, it is still internally consistent.
Click to expand...
I just posted a map right after you posted this. It really shows just how short the trail section was. I have All Trails, which is a hiking app that shows trails and allows people to post photos of the trail and give reviews, plus shows distance and elevation, etc. The trail from Freedom Bridge to MHB is .8 one way. So if someone parked at Freedom Bridge and walked to MHB and back it's 1.6 miles. We know BB parked across from Mears Farm which is less than half of that. She says she walked only toward MHB and then back to her car. So I bet her walk was maybe .3 or .4 one way from the parking lot to MHB and then .3 or .4 back to her car. IT wasn't far at all so the window seems small to see the girls.
 
mrjitty said:
I could see it being open to challenge exactly where the witness saw the victims on her return leg, but it is hard to see it being challenged that she did in fact see them, somewhere on her return.

Also, as the respective cars were seen by the same camera, even if camera time is a bit different to phone time, it is still internally consistent.
Click to expand...
It is likely the camera and phone time were a bit different. Especially the HH Store camera, which probably wasn't perfectly calibrated and synchronized with an atomic clock. The HH Store would never have imagined their camera would become a key part of evidence in a murder trial.

jmo
 
steeltowngirl said:
It is likely the camera and phone time were a bit different. Especially the HH Store camera, which probably wasn't perfectly calibrated and synchronized with an atomic clock. The HH Store would never have imagined their camera would become a key part of evidence in a murder trial.

jmo
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I think they would have corrected that in the PCA to say it was off by so many minutes, etc.

So many "it must have been this...." in this case when things/statements conflict. I prefer to go by what the facts tell us, personally.

IMO MOO
 
FrostedGlass said:
The car sightings are slightly problematic for me. All three occurred between 2:10, 2:14 and 2:28.
It seems they have no sightings before or after. I'm not sure how they will get around that.
Click to expand...
Regarding PCA posted: Witness "advised she said “Hi” to the male but he just glared at them.”

I know a witness can be unreliable; however, wonder if this witness will be able to identify RA during trial, or if witness already identified him in a line up? moo
 
TTF14 said:
I think they would have corrected that in the PCA to say it was off by so many minutes, etc.

So many "it must have been this...." in this case when things/statements conflict. I prefer to go by what the facts tell us, personally.

IMO MOO
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This entire case doesn't end with the PCA.
I work towards factual information too.

Thank you very much.
 
@davebangert

Status hearing set for Aug. 23 in case of Richard Allen, accused in the 2017 murders of Delphi teens Abby Williams and Libby German. First part closed to public, Judge Gull says. 1/

In the closing minutes of the three days of pretrial hearings July 30-Aug 1, including a nearly 12-hour third day, Richard Allen's attys, the prosecutor and judge talked about additional matters at the bench before Judge Gull said she'd set a hearing in the coming weeks. 2/
 
FrostedGlass said:
The 2:14 was BB; the names of the other two are redacted in this document.
Click to expand...

Smart car, SUV and PT Cruiser and the 2:10 pm witness saw that vehicle as a purple PT cruiser.

RA on the day had a black 2016 Ford Focus.

Two of them (I think) did notice though that it was parked like it was concealing it's licence plate number.

Could it be that witness remembered the colour incorrectly or that that vehicle was driven by someone else.

I wonder if the drive by witness saw the muddy bloody man walking towards that particular vehicle parked at the CPS building or not.

May have to read it again...
 
MiniMoo said:
A vehicle similar to RA's Ford 2016 is caught on video at 1:27 pm which fits in perfectly with the time RA claims he was there which was around 1:30 pm.

The minors saw the creepy man around 1:26 pm based on the photo one of them took which would likely have the date and time on it.

If the vehicle really is that of RA's and he was driving by at 1:27 pm and the minors really did see a creepy man on the trail around 1:26 pm - then the creepy man and RA can't be the same and one.

I take it the video footage doesn't show plate numbers just vehicles as they pass by left or right.

Who saw the vehicle at 2:10 pm, 2:14 pm and 2:28 pm?
Click to expand...
The 2:10 and 2:28 times are indicated by witnesses that spotted a car backed into the CPS parking lot.

Also the witness to RA stated she saw him after she took the photo of the bench.
 
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arielilane said:
Regarding PCA posted: Witness "advised she said “Hi” to the male but he just glared at them.”

I know a witness can be unreliable; however, wonder if this witness will be able to identify RA during trial, or if witness already identified him in a line up? moo
Click to expand...
IMO I do recall that the defense requested in one their motions for any information about whether a witness line up had occurred. Of course we don’t know if that happened or not.
 
MiniMoo said:
Smart car, SUV and PT Cruiser and the 2:10 pm witness saw that vehicle as a purple PT cruiser.

RA on the day had a black 2016 Ford Focus.

Two of them (I think) did notice though that it was parked like it was concealing it's licence plate number.

Could it be that witness remembered the colour incorrectly or that that vehicle was driven by someone else.

I wonder if the drive by witness saw the muddy bloody man walking towards that particular vehicle parked at the CPS building or not.

May have to read it again...
Click to expand...
IMO I think it’s likely a witness could have incorrectly remembered the color of a car but remember where it was parked and that it was parked oddly.
I do not believe it has been disclosed exactly where along CR300 North that SC saw RA. Per the PCA she was traveling east and she saw him walking west away from MHB on the north side of the road.
So that can be anywhere west of MHB on CR300 North. I have no doubt LE know exactly where RA was spotted they just have not disclosed.
https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

Gary Hughes has a very good video that does cover the timeline of all the witnesses on a map simultaneously. You may find it helpful in visualizing the timing of events.
 
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