Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

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Why would NM want to keep any potential co-conspirators out of the trial, if they are not 100% cleared?

Beats me. Strategy? This is only the first layer?

I don't personally believe they've abandoned the "more than one perp" theory. Not in the slightest. Remember, there's a gag order in place. LE hasn't said anything since then.

IMO MOO
 
I find it interesting that in the first Franks motion (which was denied), the defense keeps saying SC did not say the man was bloody in her 2017 interview. They are very careful to narrow the scope down to "her 2017 interview" for these claims. I wonder if there was a subsequent interview where she stated he was bloody. TL omitted the date of her interview in the probable cause affidavit for the arrest warrant application, so it seems like he may have combined two or more interviews while only citing the 2017 interview in the search warrant application affidavit.

June 2017 was her first interview. It’s listed on the exhibits list for the franks
 
Why does he want to keep out the geofencing ?
That's not what was decided. It was decided that only geofencing evidence that was relevant and proven accurate would be admitted, I believe.

I think that is most likely to avoid generalisations or taking some statistical errors like... Ok, let me present a terrible layman's example of what the geofencing could show, that would be a distraction versus a clue of evidentiary value. 'Look at the phone of this random person, it seems like it appeared on the bridge for 3 seconds, must mean they might be involved' (meanwhile they were driving on the nearby road, and the location glitched for 3 seconds).

I am not saying this is what happened, I am just presenting an example of why I'd want both sides to only present data that has strong evidentiary value.

All MOO
 
That's not what was decided. It was decided that only geofencing evidence that was relevant and proven accurate would be admitted, I believe.

Relevant according to whom?

Also, has it been decided? I thought it was still under advisement, but I could be wrong.
 
Why does he want to keep out the geofencing ?
He doesn't. You keep claiming this, but that's not what is actually in the motion. He wants the scope of geofencing discussion to be limited to materially relevant facts, and not used to confuse or mislead the jury. Geofencing will be allowed either way. If the prosecution gets their motion, there will just be guardrails on the discussion to keep the discussion relevant.

SCR-20240814-sxby.png
 

Attachments

  • 2024 4_29 StateMotion in Limine-1.pdf
    118 KB · Views: 0
He doesn't. You keep claiming this, but that's not what is actually in the motion. He wants the scope of geofencing discussion to be limited to materially relevant facts, and not used to confuse or mislead the jury. Geofencing will be allowed either way. If the prosecution gets their motion, there will just be guardrails on the discussion to keep the discussion relevant.

View attachment 524620

He wants to keep out what HE doesn't want in. Delphi is not the Chicago metro area. We're not talking about thousands of numbers that would appear in a report.

IMO, there's no reason to keep ANY of it out.
 
He wants to keep out what HE doesn't want in. Delphi is not the Chicago metro area. We're not talking about thousands of numbers that would appear in a report.

IMO, there's no reason to keep ANY of it out.
Frankly, he wants to keep what basically amounts to misinformation from being presented in front of the jury. After the Franks motion that included cell data (third? fourth?), I can very easily see the concern. The defense has nothing to worry about as long as they have an expert or can show how whatever they are claiming is actually relevant to the case and not misleading. Honestly, if they had just held off on the Franks motion, they could have had free reign with that type of discussion in court... kind of poor strategy in hindsight.

JMO
 
That's not what was decided. It was decided that only geofencing evidence that was relevant and proven accurate would be admitted, I believe.

I think that is most likely to avoid generalisations or taking some statistical errors like... Ok, let me present a terrible layman's example of what the geofencing could show, that would be a distraction versus a clue of evidentiary value. 'Look at the phone of this random person, it seems like it appeared on the bridge for 3 seconds, must mean they might be involved' (meanwhile they were driving on the nearby road, and the location glitched for 3 seconds).

I am not saying this is what happened, I am just presenting an example of why I'd want both sides to only present data that has strong evidentiary value.

All MOO
The suggestion by the defense is that the original FBI agent involved in this investigation be allowed present his original 2017 geofence data to the jury. The prosecution is asking that this original FBI agent who worked the case should not be allowed to present his work to the jury.

I personally think that it is critical information that the jury should know as this is a rural area, so if you’re with in 100 m of this crime scene, you probably see or don’t see something important.

The problem for the state is that it doesn’t implicate RA, but possibly other people, so that’s exactly why they don’t want it to be included. I don’t think anyone is actually worried about the jury being “confused” about what geofencing is. I think the majority of people are familiar with GPS these days and can handle what a GPS map is.
 
Except that he focussed more rage on Libby at the crime scene too. He never knew he was taped by her at that point in time ... else that phone never would have been left at the scene.

And, IMO, we're going to find out all about that rage towards her and the motive behind it at the trial. I wonder if they're going to call any of his daughter's friends who they questioned in the case to the stand during trial? There's something more to their reasons for being questionned, does it fit in with any of his confessions (??) ... and IMO it will be very, very interesting if we do see them testify.
Even if they do get called, I don’t know what bearing their testimony may have on the case at hand really.
 
The suggestion by the defense is that the original FBI agent involved in this investigation be allowed present his original 2017 geofence data to the jury. The prosecution is asking that this original FBI agent who worked the case should not be allowed to present his work to the jury.

I personally think that it is critical information that the jury should know as this is a rural area, so if you’re with in 100 m of this crime scene, you probably see or don’t see something important.

The problem for the state is that it doesn’t implicate RA, but possibly other people, so that’s exactly why they don’t want it to be included. I don’t think anyone is actually worried about the jury being “confused” about what geofencing is. I think the majority of people are familiar with GPS these days and can handle what a GPS map is.

Totally agree. None of this is about "confusing" a jury. Hogwash.
 
They sure are stating that the witness nevere said the word "bloody". That one, single, solitary word is also in quotes in the proposed wording by th D-Team in their document.

Did she instead state something akin to: "I passed a man who was covered in mud and blood".

They chose a single word to highlight and quote. But that does not mean the witness did not state that she saw a man with blood and mud on him. Indeed a good paraphrase of the above proposed statement for a PCA would be, "she descibed passing a man who was muddy and bloody". Which she did. Perhaps she also stated that he was carrying a dark blue jacket and wearing a lighter coloured one. I just find it really suspect that they highlight one word to concentrate on ... because she did not actually use the "quoted word" in her description, but then, the PCA doesn't have her word(s) in quotes, only the D-Team does and then only the one word at that.

The Judge knows more than you and I do. She has denied their motion so I suspect that what they chose to concentrate on, and to quote, doesn't accurately paint the picture of what the witness actually put forth with her statement. Kind of like their writings that state there was no blood at the crime scene which we now know to be absolutely false. Just because the D-Team writes it, doesn't make it an acurate or factual depicition of the evidence.
If I've seen enough videos of interrogations... (and I have. Probably weeks of footage) ... it could have likely been as follows.

Phone tip: 'I wanted to report that I've seen a person, I think covered in blood? On the 13th'

- The LE is sorting through thousands of tips and months pass, until they can video-tape an interview -

Video interview: "So you saw a man, on the 13th. What did he look like?"
"I didn't get a good look, but he was like... dirty"
"Dirty how? Dusty? Like he was working construction?"
"No, more like, he was in a fight. Or like he fell in the river"
"Did he look injured?"
"I don't know. Nothing on his face, I don't think."
"How could you tell he was in a fight?"
"I am not sure/I don't know, something about how dirty/dishevelled he looked/the way he walked. He looked like he was covered in something wet, could have been blood."
"You are positive there was a man walking by the side of the road, covered in blood?"
"It could have been mud, or blood."

The above is total conjecture, but this would be an example of how, if I was the DT, I could use the above to say the witness never said 'bloody'.

All MOO.
 
Totally agree. None of this is about "confusing" a jury. Hogwash.
I’ve watched this specific FBI agent testify in the Molly Tibbetts case, and he was able to explain how they pinged her Fitbit very simply with graphics and maps. He did a great job of explaining the technical side. I really don’t think that anyone is going to be confused by GPS.
 
I’ve watched this specific FBI agent testify in the Molly Tibbetts case, and he was able to explain how they pinged her Fitbit very simply with graphics and maps. He did a great job of explaining the technical side. I really don’t think that anyone is going to be confused by GPS.

Yes. It's 2024 evidence (well, 2017) presented to a 2024 jury. Not 2024 evidence presented to Marty McFly! ;)
 
If he said he was at home with his phone, the pro-guilt side would just say that he had a burner phone. I really don’t think that it matters what he says, the pro-guilt side wont accept it.

At this point the pro-guilt side is saying that Libby’s phone was turned on by a rooting animal or rigor mortis or drying up water. Anything except for a person actually turning the phone on. Like why couldn’t a person have turned the phone on?

It’s not the defendants job to prove himself innocent - It’s the states job to prove that he is guilty. He doesn’t even have to provide an alibi. The burden is on the State to prove that he was involved or, at this point, even there after 1:30pm and we have not heard any real undisputed evidence that suggests that.

It’s not evidence to just say RA=BG, the state has to actually prove it.
Because there hasn't been a trial yet.

And, unlike the Defence, the prosecution is following the gag order.

And, IMO, the Pro-Allen side is ignoring even their own LEs testiony about their 'suspects', their non-expert expert statements, etc etc and everything is a conspiracy. Everything.

What is RAs alibi again? The other 'suspects' have them, so they are off the bridge. RA is stil on it and he placed himself there all on his own and by his own choice.
 
Totally agree. None of this is about "confusing" a jury. Hogwash.
I had to explain data analysis to very educated, very high paid board members enough times to realise that the average person struggles to understand digital data... MOO.
I’ve watched this specific FBI agent testify in the Molly Tibbetts case, and he was able to explain how they pinged her Fitbit very simply with graphics and maps. He did a great job of explaining the technical side. I really don’t think that anyone is going to be confused by GPS.
IMO there is a big difference between tracking one single device that's optimised for GPS usage (fitbits are built to track your route in as great detail as possible) and reverse engineering that same process for multiple unknown devices based on GPS. Not every device will use GPS consistently. My phone only uses geolocation when I access approved apps. I believe, personally, that the map will be mildly chaotic. Part of my job description for years was breaking down data analysis for very educated board members. We had to try and use a single slide, because the moment we went over into 2 or 3 slides, their eyes would glaze over. Most laypeople don't do great with analytics, IMO
 
They knew it was Bridge guy though because of the video description and we know from the Prosecutions case that RA=BG.

IMO

Yep it sure is the Prosecutions theory. I wonder which pic they now believe is RA? OBG was taken out of the equation IIRC so that only leaves YBG. MOO

Surely the state doesn't think YBG is RA. :eek:
 
I’ve watched this specific FBI agent testify in the Molly Tibbetts case, and he was able to explain how they pinged her Fitbit very simply with graphics and maps. He did a great job of explaining the technical side. I really don’t think that anyone is going to be confused by GPS.
Yes. It's 2024 evidence (well, 2017) presented to a 2024 jury. Not 2024 evidence presented to Marty McFly! ;)
Sure is a good thing the prosecution isn't trying to outright keep him from testifying, then.
 

Attachments

  • 2024 4_29 StateMotion in Limine-1.pdf
    118 KB · Views: 0

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