Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

[grannygates]

Well, IMO we certainly have a very, very good idea where RA was that day at the time of the crime which began on the bridge he placed himself on.

That’s in dispute, so the state can’t just say that RA was on the bridge when RA is also on video saying that he left at 1:30. This is where that whole burden of proof comes in.

 

[SouthEnd]

I think that different people will have a different idea of what would be considered “relevant” . My opinion is that it’s data/reports/evidence surrounding the actual crime and the full length of the investigation into the crime. My interest is finding and prosecuting the people that are responsible for the crime based on the evidence and the full investigation. Where the state thinks relevant means just things that will implicate Richard Allen.

So that’s going to be our big discrepancy regarding what would be considered “relevant”. Are we looking at the justice for the victims and the full investigation or are we looking at the narrow case of what just implicates this one person.

Our opinion of what is relevant does not matter though. It is up to the Judge.

IMO and that of the judicial system. I am all for measures and boundaries when it comes to authority. The USA have a history of some egregious miscarriages of justice and as people who follow True Crime I believe it is our duty to be informed. That's why I trust in statistics. The majority of false convictions have race as a contributing factor. Class, race. I always go back to case like the Central Park five and read through the material we have available. See where it all went wrong and it is, more often than not, the single-minded pursuit of a single suspect/group of suspects and the internal bias of the investigators early on.

The RA case has very few of the contributing factors of any wrongful conviction I have studied. I am very very very open to being proven wrong.

All MOO

Edited - to add clarity in the first sentence.

 

[TTF14]

Well, IMO we certainly have a very, very good idea where RA was that day at the time of the crime which began on the bridge he placed himself on.

For me, where RA was at that exact time on that exact day means nothing unless the timeline of the crime is proven with hard facts and data to have occurred when LE is stating it did. And I have major doubts about that, so all the arguing in the world about RA being there at that time means nothing to me.

IMO MOO

 

[Vern]

For me, where RA was at that exact time on that exact day means nothing unless the timeline of the crime is proven with hard facts and data to have occurred when LE is stating it did. And I have major doubts about that, so all the arguing in the world about RA being there at that time means nothing to me.

IMO MOO

IMO the prosecution will be able to do exactly that and the D-Team knows it.

That's why the D-Team is so desperate to move the ToD until later in the evening/overnight when RA was at work or, of course, having the Odinists come in and commit the crime, move bodies around undetected etc etc.

 

[Vern]

That’s in dispute, so the state can’t just say that RA was on the bridge when RA is also on video saying that he left at 1:30. This is where that whole burden of proof comes in.

IMO, they'll prove he was on the bridge. They can already show why he had to change his original statement (video and eye witness oooopsie that he found out about later).

Like it or not, they'll prove it BARD.

 

[grannygates]

Snipped for focus.

EXACTLY.

People are already so convinced he's guilty, without a trial, that anything that doesn't support that is automatically "irrelevant." And it's accepted!

I hope I never have to stand in front of a jury.

IMO MOO

It’s horrifying. It’s guilty until convicted. As though no innocent person has ever been arrested and found not guilty. As soon as they put the cuffs on you, you can be thrown in solitary confinement in a max security prison, with no trial and tortured until you go insane. That is terrifying that happened in America and people are supporting it. A safekeeping order gave a prison the ability to ignore all human rights obligations and torture a man for months through his psychosis and stood back and videotaped it but of course, no audio!

I’ll get off my soapbox but I’m just horrified that this is being accepted on a human level. We have laws and a constitution that is supposed to protect us from stuff like this.

 

[TTF14]

IMO the prosecution will be able to do exactly that and the D-Team knows it.

That's why the D-Team is so desperate to move the ToD until later in the evening/overnight when RA was at work or, of course, having the Odinists come in and commit the crime, move bodies around undetected etc etc.

Or maybe they're right. They're privy to a lot more than we are regarding the timeline of this crime.

 

[ClearAhead]

Even if they do get called, I don’t know what bearing their testimony may have on the case at hand really.

Perhaps they’ll testify only as a character witness?

 

[TTF14]

It’s horrifying. It’s guilty until convicted. As though no innocent person has ever been arrested and found not guilty. As soon as they put the cuffs on you, you can be thrown in solitary confinement in a max security prison, with no trial and tortured until you go insane. That is terrifying that happened in America and people are supporting it. A safekeeping order gave a prison the ability to ignore all human rights obligations and torture a man for months through his psychosis and stood back and videotaped it but of course, no audio!

I’ll get off my soapbox but I’m just horrified that this is being accepted on a human level. We have laws and a constitution that is supposed to protect us from stuff like this.

But nobody cares. Because he was arrested. So he's guilty.

IMO MOO

 

[Vern]

Or maybe they're right. They're privy to a lot more than we are regarding the timeline of this crime.

Okay; they obviously know a lot more conspiracy theories than I do IMO.

 

[grannygates]

IMO, they'll prove he was on the bridge.

Like it or not, they'll prove it BARD.

If he is guilty of the crime, of course let the prosecution prove it. The issue right now is that they haven’t divulged any evidence that shows anything even close to that. So that’s my concern. I’m not a BG=RA kinda person. I need proof.

 

[photographer4]

Yes ma'am, I read that. However, it bothers me that her actual words are not to be found.

I skimmed through the attachment and didn't find anything regarding her full factual statement.

My opinion is that if she said " he looked like he had been in a fight" it would indicate that he had the appearance of blood.
Would it be reasonable to use the word " bloody" when summing up that statement? Some people might believe it's akin to twisting the narrative, but others would argue that it's a fair assessment.

I will go through this attachment again to see if this shows her actual statement.

If she never said the word “bloody” then to me, it’s not ok. That is adding words - putting words in her mouth. I’d like to know what exactly she DID say and what she was asked explicitly. I don’t like the idea of a search warrant being granted on a possible twist / addition / of her actual words. All mooooo.

 

[TTF14]

If she never said the word “bloody” then to me, it’s not ok. That is adding words - putting words in her mouth. I’d like to know what exactly she DID say and what she was asked explicitly. I don’t like the idea of a search warrant being granted on a possible twist / addition / of her actual words. All mooooo.

The majority of folks seem fine with that, though.

 

[photographer4]

This is the Woman who saw RA after he murdered the girls?

If so you can see in the Blurry video he seems to be wearing a Brown Hoody so if the crime scene was a bloody mess he could of taken off his jacket and she saw him in the Hoody.

IMO

This was the woman who said she saw a man who LE believe to be RA post murders.

 

[ClearAhead]

I wonder if there is about to be another huge delay because JG refuses to hold a hearing on any of the many franks motions…?

It could be said…..wonder if there is about to be another huge delay because the D “could not provide solid proof that law enforcement or the original judge in the case acted on false or misleading information”.

Delphi Judge Denies Defense's 'Franks' Hearing Requests

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. -- The special judge in the Delphi Murders case has denied the defense's request for a Franks hearing.

wibc.com

 

[grannygates]

Our opinion of what is relevant does not matter though. It is up to the Judge.

IMO and that of the judicial system. I am all for measures and boundaries when it comes to authority. The USA have a history of some egregious miscarriages of justice and as people who follow True Crime I believe it is our duty to be informed. That's why I trust in statistics. The majority of false convictions have race as a contributing factor. Class, race. I always go back to case like the Central Park five and read through the material we have available. See where it all went wrong and it is, more often than not, the single-minded pursuit of a single suspect/group of suspects and the internal bias of the investigators early on.

The RA case has very few of the contributing factors of any wrongful conviction I have studied. I am very very very open to being proven wrong.

All MOO

Edited - to add clarity in the first sentence.

I definitely agree that in Indiana a huge issue with wrongful convictions has to do with race.

I agree that statistically a middle-aged white man isn’t going to be the prime target for a wrongful conviction. But, if we look at the quality of the evidence and we look at the circumstances in which RA was arrested, could a certain investigators ego and temper be an issue here? “you’re guilty of something and I’m gonna prove it”

 

[grannygates]

This was the woman who said she saw a man who LE believe to be RA post murders.

The one that Holeman said was a family member searching. OBG is back on the table as a bad guy now.

 

[Vern]

But nobody cares. Because he was arrested. So he's guilty.

IMO MOO

We are the general public.

We are not part of RAs judicial process in the court of law. Quote from the admins that is pinned at the start of every Delphi thread with the respective bits RBBM:

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

Click here for The Rules

I, and others have the right to our opinion based on what we see at this point in time.

Ours are just as valid as those opinions requiring conspiracy theories involving family, state, SCOI, Judge's, Prosecutors, LE, employers, co-workers etc conspiring to frame up an individual.

 

[grannygates]

If she never said the word “bloody” then to me, it’s not ok. That is adding words - putting words in her mouth. I’d like to know what exactly she DID say and what she was asked explicitly. I don’t like the idea of a search warrant being granted on a possible twist / addition / of her actual words. All mooooo.

Changing the color of the jacket from tan to blue to match someone else’s witness statement to secure a search warrant is nuts. There’s no scenario where I would ever agree to that.

 

[SouthEnd]

I definitely agree that in Indiana a huge issue with wrongful convictions has to do with race.

I agree that statistically a middle-aged white man isn’t going to be the prime target for a wrongful conviction. But, if we look at the quality of the evidence and we look at the circumstances in which RA was arrested, could a certain investigators ego and temper be an issue here? “you’re guilty of something and I’m gonna prove it”

Statistically, that's unlikely. KK would have been a much better target for the ego and morals of that hypothetical investigator. MOO