Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

[m00c0w]

The one that Holeman said was a family member searching. OBG is back on the table as a bad guy now.

That is not what he said at all. He said they had other sketches of family members and searchers. He said the OBG sketch was who they believe was on the bridge, and that they felt it was an accurate depiction. This was in your own link to your own source.

 

[SouthEnd]

That is not what he said at all. He said they had other sketches of family members and searchers. He said the OBG sketch was who they believe was on the bridge, and that they felt it was an accurate depiction. This was in your own link to your own source.

This is such a good example of why trials need to include Only the Relevant Information.

In this very thread info has been missed or misunderstood 3 or 4 times in a row. And I don't think it's intentional, necessarily; there is just a lot of info going by very fast.

IMO

 

[grannygates]

Statistically, that's unlikely. KK would have been a much better target for the ego and morals of that hypothetical investigator. MOO

Oh and he was. Why did they do a million dollar dredge of the river after already confirming both Klines were at home actively using their phones. This occurred weeks (?) before the RA arrest. Could there have been a bit of a bruised ego and an extra push to solve this case to make up for blowing a million dollars on a flimsy false confession..? Just hypothetically. I’m not sold on any one reason yet but this might have a bit of smoke.

 

[m00c0w]

This is such a good example of why trials need to include Only the Relevant Information.

In this very thread info has been missed or misunderstood 3 or 4 times in a row. And I don't think it's intentional, necessarily; there is just a lot of info going by very fast.

IMO

A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes

 

[photographer4]

I don’t know if it’s normal but I can’t imagine it gained much favor with the Court.
it solidified for me that defense must think the general public is pretty gullible.
All my opinion.

If they get jurors who believe their theory over the State theory I’m not going to be surprised.

 

[grannygates]

That is not what he said at all. He said they had other sketches of family members and searchers. He said the OBG sketch was who they believe was on the bridge, and that they felt it was an accurate depiction. This was in your own link to your own source.

They had 4 sketches made. 3 are young guys and 1 is the only old guy. The family member looks like the old guy. Process of elimination.

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf - ANDREW J. BALDWIN

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[steeltowngirl]

Just wondering, why would he LIE about having been there? For whatever reason, he didn't care if DD or LE knew he'd been at the bridge that day initially. He was open about that. Being in the general area doesn't make him an offender or even suspicious imo.

Fitting the description of the photo of the man on the bridge, and admitting to being on the bridge in the timeframe of the murder - would most certainly make him suspicious. But it doesn’t prove guilt.

I lean towards the reason RA spoke to DD was because he wasn’t yet aware of Libby’s photo. However, he did know he’d been seen by witnesses. He was pre-splaining why he was there - looking at fish.
Notably, once the BG photo was released, and they wanted to talk to the man in the photo, he didn’t return to LE to clarify that it either was, or was not, him.

So, is that him in the photo, or not? I have yet to hear the defense say “the man in the bridge photo is not RA”.

jmo

 

[grannygates]

If they get jurors who believe their theory over the State theory I’m not going to be surprised.

If you bring me FBI agents with digital data and years of actual investigative work on people with connections to the crime scene and the victims and then you bring me Holeman telling me YBG=BG=OBG=RA I’m gonna believe the FBI agents..

 

[Arkay]

I want to say how impressed I am by the final actions of a dying girl, who must have been so terrified, and yet somehow was able to record the person who was about to murder her and her friend.

I am relatively impervious to the different sketches and any nuances of dissimilarity in the witness statements.

Eyewitness accounts are a valuable tool to a degree, but always imperfect. The passersby had no reason at the time to scrutinize some guy on a bridge. Once they found out about A and L, they must have done the best they could to recollect what they saw.

But it really doesn’t matter to me, given that Libby has him recorded.

And the man who was recorded looks like RA. Which would be a terrible coincidence for Richard Allen if he were at work at CVS during the time of the murders. Yet he himself told the world that he was—GUESS WHAT?—-on that same bridge! Around the same time! And no alibi other than he was on the bridge and looks like the guy in the video, but he didn’t do it!

I’m no fan of Odinists and what they represent, but there’s been no proof of them being there at the time of the murders.

IMO the branches, etc. are like a Rorschach Test. People see what they are inclined to see.

But the video is no Rorschach. It is proof. Worth 1000 words and more, because it’s not even a picture, it’s a moving image.

IMO

 

[Vern]

If you bring me FBI agents with digital data and years of actual investigative work on people with connections to the crime scene and the victims and then you bring me Holeman telling me YBG=BG=OBG=RA I’m gonna believe the FBI agents..

And yet some people are having a hard time believing those actual FBI experts with years of actual investigative work experience when they say this was not a ritualistic murder.

IMO, everyone chooses what bits to believe, who to believe and when to believe them ... or not.

 

[ClearAhead]

Changing the color of the jacket from tan to blue to match someone else’s witness statement to secure a search warrant is nuts. There’s no scenario where I would ever agree to that.

I think this has been mentioned dozens of times already but here goes again…..it appears the man on the bridge is wearing a brown hoodie which can be seen hanging below his blue jacket. Brown and tan are synonymous. Perhaps he was seen after he removed his jacket.

BBM

https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seeking-info/liberty-german/@@download.pdf

Investigators have distributed a photo (shown above) of a person observed on the Delphi Historic Trail. The photo appears to depict a White male wearing blue jeans, a blue coat/jacket, and a hoodie.

 

[SouthEnd]

If you bring me FBI agents with digital data and years of actual investigative work on people with connections to the crime scene and the victims and then you bring me Holeman telling me YBG=BG=OBG=RA I’m gonna believe the FBI agents..

Then do you also believe the FBI agents saying that the crime scene was not a ritualistic murder/sacrifice but the work of undoing?

I am trying to establish the standards we are using, because IMO it keeps moving.

 

[m00c0w]

They had 4 sketches made. 3 are young guys and 1 is the only old guy. The family member looks like the old guy. Process of elimination.

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf - ANDREW J. BALDWIN

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No.

Delphi Murders CrimeCon Interview Transcript - CrimeLights

Delphi Murders: The Family of Libby & Abby speak at CrimeCon about the sketch, witnesses, and suspects. Read the full interview transcript.

crimelights.com

 

[grannygates]

Then do you also believe the FBI agents saying that the crime scene was not a ritualistic murder/sacrifice but the work of undoing?

I am trying to establish the standards we are using, because IMO it keeps moving.

I don’t think that that was the full quote from the BAU, I think that’s just what murder sheet said, as the FBI agent that did RLs SW said they were looking for books on Nordic beliefs. It also conflicted the testimony of the states own witness, the blood spatter expert, who said that Abby was never undressed? So theyve got to work out that discrepancy. Not to mention re-dressing is typically something done by someone known to the victim, so it also doesn’t fit their accused.

I shared some links way back from the FBI regarding what is classified as undoing and it’s far more than redressing. It just means an attempt by the killer to symbolically undo the murder. It could staging the crime scene, positioning the body, placing the sticks on the bodies, cleaning the victim. A commonly seen way of undoing is covering the victim with a blanket and posing them to look like they’re sleeping. So lots of options. I think that there needs to be a little bit further clarity of what exactly the BAU meant by undoing, because it’s a broad term.

If you want me to dig up the links it’s definitely a very interesting read!

 

[ClearAhead]

Oh and he was. Why did they do a million dollar dredge of the river after already confirming both Klines were at home actively using their phones. This occurred weeks (?) before the RA arrest. Could there have been a bit of a bruised ego and an extra push to solve this case to make up for blowing a million dollars on a flimsy false confession..? Just hypothetically. I’m not sold on any one reason yet but this might have a bit of smoke.

LE had stated they investigate every tip.

They’re either criticized for being too lax or for being too diligent.

 

[m00c0w]

I don’t think that that was the full quote from the BAU, I think that’s just what murder sheet said, as the FBI agent that did RLs SW said they were looking for books on Nordic beliefs.

BBM

Could you please point out specifically where this occurred? Perhaps I missed it. I’ll help by providing the list of items to be searched/seized:

LOGAN WARRANT final_Redacted.pdf

et he rS de. ur M. et he rS de. ur M. et he rS de. ur M. ...

www.docdroid.net

(It’s also not mentioned in the affidavit that I could find…)

Thanks!

 

[photographer4]

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

We also have no idea what he had on under that coat. We analyzed that one for years... lol I mean remember those days?? Was it a gun, an animal, a shovel, a stick, good grief it went on and on and on. We know he has at least a gun and a knife or possibly a box cutter so what else is under that coat? Seems very logical that BG had a blue coat based on the photo of him. This scene was bloody so I'd say it's very likely he got bloody and took off the blue coat.

What we also know is nobody else on the trail after 2:13 saw the man or described a man matching BG.

Another interesting note I just saw in the PCA is it says near the end of Libby's video the man is seen and heard saying down the hill. I am curious if they have some other images of part of BG.

If they could be sure it was RA based on the video by LG, then I wonder why they waited for the couple weeks post search warrant before arresting him?

 

[Caylee Advocate]

If every witness described an exceptionally short man with a goatee, I would think they all saw the same man. The issue is that these witnesses are not describing what RA looks like. Also, the foundation of many of their witness statements is simply the clothing that this person is wearing and no two descriptions match.

One mentions the man as not taller than 5’10”. Richard Allen is shorter than most grown women, and was the same height as the girls, so the most obvious identifying feature of him is his very short stature. Not a single witness said that BG was short, or shorter than them, so that leads me to believe they’re not describing RA.

One juvenile (BW) also said that she came up to his shoulder which if he is only 5'4" and you allot maybe 10-12" for his neck and head, the juvenile (BW) would have only been no taller than about 4' 6". Her interview was in 2020 IIRC She describes the male they saw on Page 2 of the docs.

https://www.wane.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/Delphi-Docs-2022.pdf

 

[katydid23]

If they could be sure it was RA based on the video by LG, then I wonder why they waited for the couple weeks post search warrant before arresting him?

It usually happens that way. They can be pretty certain they have the right suspect and still it takes weeks after the SW to organise things, collect test results and forensics and see what they've got.

 

[katydid23]

One juvenile (BW) also said that she came up to his shoulder which if he is only 5'4" and you allot maybe 10-12" for his neck and head, the juvenile (BW) would have only been no taller than about 4' 6". Her interview was in 2020 IIRC She describes the male they saw on Page 2 of the docs.

https://www.wane.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/Delphi-Docs-2022.pdf

Witnesses are notoriously bad at estimating someone's actual height. Imagine a young girl trying to make an accurate assessment about someone she just saw in passing?