Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

[mrjitty]

This Defense has proven to be ridiculous time and time again. I trust nothing that comes out of their mouths, just like this hypothesizing Franks 3.

I will wait to hear BB's and SC's testimony at trial and see how much of this 'interpretation' by the D is factually correct.

MOO

For me the final blow was the D failing to call Prof Turco for the motion in Limine hearing. He was central to Franks 1!

 

[mrjitty]

Do you suppose the judge would have set a FM hearing for the Lebrato/Scremin team? This bit from her 11/14/23 order (from the CCS) seems to indicate that she would. They apparently saw some problems, too.


Barbara MacDonald talking about the Lebrato interview after he and Scremin were taken off the case.

EXCLUSIVE: Allen's Ex-Attorney Says Prison Guard Had Odinism Face Tattoo

Bill Lebrato said a guard in charge of watching Allen was ordered to remove Odinism patches on his uniform, then later got a face tattoo resembling Odin's Spear.

www.courttv.com

Who knows, seeing they never filed one?

I prefer long form opinions to be issued by Judges with narrative, factual findings and then application of the law - Judge Gull doesn't operate that way sadly. But at the end of the day she did determine these questions so it seems futile to pretend these questions haven't been determined as far as this trial goes.

It's kind of like complaining about a foul long after the ref awarded the goal.

Maybe some appeal court years from now will disagree, but it's on the scoreboard now.

IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

The defense submitted the video tapes of the two interviews with the filing for the court to watch. That would be the evidence that it is backed by.

Has it ever been stated in a prosecution filing that these witness statements are being misquoted by the defense?

The defense has been debunked by their own witness like Turco on what he said (see attached link at 28 minute mark).

These ridiculous filings of what the Court 'should have said' listing items that have been disproven only further solidifies my opinion that they have no case of defense and have wasted precious time and resources on things that not only muddy the waters, but upon further investigation turn out to be completely false or stretched beyond reason.

The jury is not going to believe or like this DT at all IMO.

The Delphi Murders: State's Response to Defense's Third Motion for Franks Hearing

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

For me the final blow was the D failing to call Prof Turco for the motion in Limine hearing. He was central to Franks 1!

That's because he said his findings were more accurate with the P than the D's (see link above). Turco is not a bombshell witness for the Defense.

JMO

 

[Trebor5591]

Which is an interesting point, since we learned the 24/7 video recordings conveniently don’t have any audio recording (of course) So the only audio recording would be the telephone calls that occurred within the jail. So are there (approximately) 61 telephone calls in that two months? I wasn’t really clear on what proof they are using for those statements. Surely, we’re not just going off of inmate door sheets.

I wonder about these so-called confessions too. Maybe they are indeed confessions, but I think we will have to wait for the trial to know for certain. All we really have at this point are the assertions of the prosecutors/law enforcement that RA confessed numerous times. We have no actual transcripts of the confessions. I will feel more confident when I hear the confessions with my own ears or read the transcripts at least. It has been my experience that prosecutors/law enforcement can overstate what they say. I want to evaluate myself, not just accept the assertions of others. JMO.

 

[mrjitty]

That's because he said his findings were more accurate with the P than the D's (see link above). Turco is not a bombshell witness for the Defense.

JMO

Agreed! But then why was he touted in Franks as the key expert?

MOO

 

[m00c0w]

That's because he said his findings were more accurate with the P than the D's (see link above). Turco is not a bombshell witness for the Defense.

JMO

No witness is going to be a bombshell witness unless the defense can just pick and choose what to include from a deposition. Calling witnesses to the stand and opening them up to cross-examination seems to be unfavorable as the truth and the misleading nature of the defense's filings tends to come out. It will certainly be fascinating to see how they maneuver around all of the mistruths included in things like the Franks memos - although I imagine they will pretend like it never happened since the jury will likely not be privy to those pleadings. The folks carrying enormous amounts of water for the defense will continue to insist that whatever the defense said was true and continue to flagrantly make up their own version of events to square the circle.

All my opinion.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Agreed! But then why was he touted in Franks as the key expert?

MOO

Hmm, let me say this as politely as possible...the D misrepresented the entire truth? They cherry picked a couple of his statements and tried to make Odinist ritual killers a thing.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

My comment was about the after effects or bruised egos that this failed search may have caused investigators. I didn’t mention diligence of investigating tips.

IMO the only egos that I've seen was mainly T Clicks and his belief that the Rushville 3 had solved the crime, spearheaded by Click. I can't wait to see how his testimony plays out at trial.

I wonder whose witness list Click will be on?

JMO

 

[Trebor5591]

I want to know the details about this:

"The day’s most memorable witness was longtime Indiana State Police detective Brian Harshman, who is assigned to monitor all reports, videos and phone calls involving Allen while the murder defendant has been in prison.

Asked how many incriminating statements Allen has made behind bars, Harshman responded “60-plus direct confessions.” He said some of those confessions included specifics of the Delphi murders that only the actual murderer would know, as well as motivation for the crimes. (The detective did not elaborate with additional details.)

Indiana State Police investigator says Richard Allen confessed 61 times to Delphi murders

The man accused of killing two Delphi teenagers has confessed more than 60 times to committing the murders, according to an Indiana State Police detective assigned to the case.

www.21alivenews.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

It’s horrifying. It’s guilty until convicted. As though no innocent person has ever been arrested and found not guilty. As soon as they put the cuffs on you, you can be thrown in solitary confinement in a max security prison, with no trial and tortured until you go insane. That is terrifying that happened in America and people are supporting it. A safekeeping order gave a prison the ability to ignore all human rights obligations and torture a man for months through his psychosis and stood back and videotaped it but of course, no audio!

I’ll get off my soapbox but I’m just horrified that this is being accepted on a human level. We have laws and a constitution that is supposed to protect us from stuff like this.

I'm horrified that two young girls were brutally murdered. The details and proof will come out at trial, today is NOT that day.

I also believe RA to be a wolf in sheep's clothing hiding in plain sight, and keeping him in protective custody was the correct move. CC's tiny jail was not equipped to handle RA and the town's outrage and media attention that followed his arrest.

Curiouser that even the D said Ricky was doing as well as possible acclimating, was cooperative, affable and engaging in his defense from Nov-beginning of April. They didn't raise this Odin abuse, call for a psych eval or anything until after RA started confessing. Funny that.

Up until the State's discovery and the confessions started pouring out that is.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Changing the color of the jacket from tan to blue to match someone else’s witness statement to secure a search warrant is nuts. There’s no scenario where I would ever agree to that.

We're only relying on the Defense's spin on her deposition for that. Unless the deposition has been made public and I missed it?

JMO

 

[MiniMoo]

PCA Clarification

Tip Narrative:
Inaccuracies, incorrect or what?

2017:

a: Richard Allen Whiteman
b: Old Farm Bureau Building (car parked)

This is when it would have been under Whiteman (street name I believe) and not Allen - by mistake.

No clothes mentioned nor when this narrative took place, but likely it was within days of the murders.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

The carpark witnesses refer to seeing an oddly parked vehicle or vehicle at the CPS building not Old Farm Bureau Building.

Either a Suv, Smart car or a purple PT cruiser. I think someone also stated a small dark car after re-reading it tonight.

Is it possible that:
c: 1:30 pm- 3:30 pm

Is incorrect or mistakenly put in like Whiteman and Old Farm Bureau Building.

Not unless the OFB building is the CPS.

On October 13th, 2022:

Richard Allen states in his interview what he was wearing that day and his activities, also, that he parked on the side of an old building.

The time he gives is 1:30 pm.

Seems to me whoever gave that narrative tip in 2017 may have made some unintentional mistakes which may very well include 1:30 pm-3:30 pm.

What if RA was driving out at 1:27 pm when a vehicle that "looked similar" to his was caught on video?

Have these inaccuracies being cleared up is what I'd like to know.

 

[TTF14]

Was this in the FMs too?

I don't think so, but the link is in my sig if you want to check.

 

[Salah11]

The problem is, one side is obeying the gag order and, so, therefore, there are a lot of misconceptions because of the games by the defence. IMO

 

[TCSouthtrust]

I agree that the DT should be at least trying to construct an alibi, but honestly? IMO it is rarely the cases for which a defendant has an alibi that go to trial. If a defendant has a provable alibi (eg KK and BH) it almost never reaches trial.

So I'm not holding my breath that we will get one.

All IMO

Yes if RA had a legitimate, solid alibi we wouldn't be talking about him in this case. Period

 

[girlhasnoname]

Do you suppose the judge would have set a FM hearing for the Lebrato/Scremin team? This bit from her 11/14/23 order (from the CCS) seems to indicate that she would. They apparently saw some problems, too.


Barbara MacDonald talking about the Lebrato interview after he and Scremin were taken off the case.

EXCLUSIVE: Allen's Ex-Attorney Says Prison Guard Had Odinism Face Tattoo

Bill Lebrato said a guard in charge of watching Allen was ordered to remove Odinism patches on his uniform, then later got a face tattoo resembling Odin's Spear.

www.courttv.com

Lebrato's interview with Fox59 has a much different tone than B McD's interview with CourtTV, like him walking back the statement he thinks RA is completely innocent:

<snipped & BBM>
“He’s always very respectful to us in our meetings with him,” Lebrato said. “I think he’s not guilty or innocent because I believe the presumption of innocence is one of the most important legal theories that we have.

That is what a Defense attorney should say. He also says that after working with SJGull for 25 years she knows no other way than being fair and professional.

https://fox59.com/indiana-news/ive-...-delphi-suspect-richard-allen-discusses-case/

MOO

 

[justtrish]

RA extinguished Libby and Abby’s lives in the most brutal way imaginable that February afternoon.

The absolute terror they felt that day should never be underestimated.

He had zero disregard for their lives that day and that shouldn’t be forgotten. He had opportunities on that walk to reflect on what he was about to do, and yet he still decided to murder two teenage girls in the most barbaric way imaginable. He also got an extra 5 years of freedom, which he didn't grant to Libby or Abby that afternoon.

I have zero sympathy for him or his plight as he is where he is because of the choices he made.

Today is another day closer to justice for Libby and Abby and their loved ones.

mooooooo

One thing that comes up for me is let's say RA is BG. Let's just assume for a moment that he is the killer. It is just so far beyond anything I can understand that

1. he did this to 2 innocent young girls in the middle of the day
2. that he continued to live there and work in a store where the family members of the victims frequented

If he is the guy, then how far beyond disturbing it is that he could have a front row seat to the pain he caused for Abby and Libby's families AND the town. Was he getting some satisfaction out of being able to live there and blend in and just watch the town as they talked about the girls, wondered who did it, and all the while he was just right there. I have wondered if this is why he never offended again. He didn't need to. He could relive his crime any time he wanted by going to the trail and walking or just seeing people talking about who did it, standing right beside the wanted posters, seeing Libby and Abby's family.. ugh it really just adds a level of depravity to it that is hard to stomach. It's hard to see how there is any remorse on his part at all when he chose to remain there. I'd think if someone was sorry or felt bad, they'd want to get away from the place they committed such a horrific crime.

 

[m00c0w]

What is a tip narrative exactly?

Does anyone know.

The “narrative” usually refers to the actual body of a report. The tip would be the report in question. So the actual content of the tip (not including things like admin data or signature blocks).

My opinion only.

 

[justtrish]

Yes if RA had a legitimate, solid alibi we wouldn't be talking about him in this case. Period

Yes! I'd like to know if the cell phone he showed to DD showed up on the trail that day. It would have been seen leaving well before Abby and Libby were taken off the bridge if so. I mean he handed it over and DD wrote the numbers down. Was that phone on the trail at all that day? If not, why not? Why would he provide a phone that wasn't there if he admitted he had it and was watching stocks on it? What phone did he have there that day? Either the phone he showed DD was there or it wasn't. If it was, then that should be easy to then show his movements and when the phone left the area of the trail. I think if there was any evidence that this phone he said he had that day was there and left at 1:30, then the defense would have brought that up well before the trail. Either way that is a problem for RA.