Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #192

[TTF14]

The only thing currently supporting an alternate timeline is a phone allegedly reconnecting to a tower. Kind of weird that the killer(s) would not only bring the phone back, but also nicely power it back on to create a record of their interactions with the girls.

RSBM

Indeed, it's weird. It is as if the killer(s) wanted that evidence on the phone to be found.

 

[m00c0w]

I believe the purpose of this one was to provide more case law to fortify their case.

I think it will work.

IMO MOO

I'm not so confident. The main case they cite, Allen v State, featured a witness to an explicit confession from someone that was able to be placed at the crime scene at the time of the murder. The witness's testimony was not admitted for various reasons. I hope we can all agree this is a night and day difference to RA's situation, which has exactly zero witnesses with such testimony, and zero other individuals that can be placed at the crime scene.

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Mostly my opinion.

 

[steeltowngirl]

The defense filed what is basically the fifth Franks motion today (not literally a Franks motion, but continues along the same pattern).

Most of it seems to be rehashing what was discussed at the motion in limine hearing, but they do include KAK TK, and RL this time, saying they are potential suspects. I personally don't find the arguments any more convincing than the first time they brought any of it up. The links to BH are still more fantasy than links. The general rundown of evidence against BH is:

- LE received tips that he looked like the guy on the bridge
- He changed his story a couple of times about how many times he's met AW
- He believes in Odinism
- He knew PW, who is also an Odinist
- BH allegedly told his ex-wife that PW killed the girls (which is also hearsay, so not sure how that will even be admitted in trial)
- LG's phone allegedly connected to the tower at 4:33am, so obviously BH turned the phone on at the crime scene for some reason
- LG's phone turning on means BH's alibi is moot

They explicitly state on page 14 that they believe BH and PW killed the girls.

The biggest issue I see with this line of reasoning is that the defense appears to be simulteanously claiming that BH is a suspect because he was supposed to be the guy on the bridge, but also the murder didn't actually happen until 4:33am which means either BH is not the guy on the bridge (because of his alibi, which the defense does not contest) or the guy on the bridge did not kill the girls. If the guy on the bridge did not kill the girls, then BH looking like the guy on the bridge is meaningless. If his alibi precludes him from being on the bridge, it is similarly meaningless. BH allegedly telling his wife that PW killed the girls (which BH denies doing) is also slightly strange, because this only implicates PW, not BH.

Additionally, if the defense's main theory is that PW and BH killed the girls, and BH maybe joined PW later, I guess... then who was on the bridge? Per MyCase, PW is 6'4"... so obviously not BG. The defense never contests BH's alibi during the timeframe of the BG abduction... so who is BG?

Ultimately, there appears to be a lot of fluff and speculation, but still a giant lack of facts that actually tie anyone else to the crime. I have a strong feeling this will wind up down the same path the rest of the Odinist stuff has gone.

Mostly my opinions, except for the parts contained in the newly filed motion which is attached.

Oh yay.
I had a Deja vu feeling that it would appear.
Franks 5: Attack of the Franks

jmo

 

[m00c0w]

RSBM

Indeed, it's weird. It is as if the killer(s) wanted that evidence on the phone to be found.

They could do that without turning the phone on. In fact, turning the phone on would do the exact opposite since it would extend the timeframe of the murders... I just can't believe such a sophisticated villain that would introduce faulty evidence on LG's phone (that also happens to implicate someone else who was there at the bridge that day, during that specific timeframe) in order to shift blame would then make the very simple mistake of turning the phone on that would undo most of their villainous work.

Regardless, that notion feels more like something out of a bad spy novel than something that could realistically happen.

(All) Just my opinion.

 

[photographer4]

It’s just crazy to me that innocent people's lives are at stake with zero proof they are involved yet they are fair game.. The Hypocrisy is astounding.

We all know Mud sticks as well as look at poor innocent RL who has been dead years and still gets a bad rep.

moo

RL - the guy who owned the property right? The same guy who got his cousin to lie and alibi him? I understand he wasn't charged in this crime, but I definitely see why LE were concerned about him and opted to get a search warrant. Its a shame he didn't stick to his probation terms and went out driving when he should not have been - seems like he wasted the last few years of his life in a jail instead of in the comfort of his own home. Must have been a very hard way to live, especially as an older man.

 

[TTF14]

They could do that without turning the phone on. In fact, turning the phone on would do the exact opposite since it would extend the timeframe of the murders... I just can't believe such a sophisticated villain that would introduce faulty evidence on LG's phone (that also happens to implicate someone else who was there at the bridge that day, during that specific timeframe) in order to shift blame would then make the very simple mistake of turning the phone on that would undo most of their villainous work.

Regardless, that notion feels more like something out of a bad spy novel than something that could realistically happen.

(All) Just my opinion.

Yes, it does seem odd, but I believe someone in LE said "you made mistakes" or "mistakes were made." Something to that effect. Was it DC? I can't remember who said that.

I'm interested in knowing who tipped BH in by February 17th, based solely on the photo of "BG." I'm not saying "BG" doesn't look like BH, but I'm not really seeing that it does either. So, who tipped it in? SEVERAL tips? Were they anonymous? Did they have names attached to them? Was whoever tipped him in trying to set him up for these murders, not realizing he had a bit of an alibi for the alleged timeframe of the murders? (I say "bit of" because there is some unaccounted time in his alibi).
All the EF stuff hangs me up too (his comment about spitting, his phone not being used, his confession to his sister and allegedly trying to hand her a blue coat, etc.). If someone was trying to frame ONLY BH, how do EF's weirdsies fit in? And JM's and PW's for that matter.

But it seems BH was the only one tipped in.

Also, IF such a detailed analysis was done on EF's phone that they would know it wasn't used at all that day, why wasn't a detailed analysis done on BH's phone? Or was it and it was another thing that was "lost?"

So many questions.

 

[photographer4]

It still won’t work. They are flogging a dead horse at this stage.
IMO

One really has to wonder why she refuses to have a hearing on these issues? I am not a lawyer and have wondered, is there any actual harm that could come from her holding a Frank's Hearing? It seems there may be some harm from her *not* hearing the motion(s) - possible future appeals based on the lack of hearings or possibly (?) a Supreme Court Challenge (if they agreed to hear one?).

 

[TTF14]

One really has to wonder why she refuses to have a hearing on these issues? I am not a lawyer and have wondered, is there any actual harm that could come from her holding a Frank's Hearing? It seems there may be some harm from her *not* hearing the motion(s) - possible future appeals based on the lack of hearings or possibly (?) a Supreme Court Challenge (if they agreed to hear one?).

My opinion only, the "harm" would be that she'd have to legally agree with the defense and the whole thing would be thrown out. For this reason, I'm actually kinda glad (even if it's not "just" legally) it didn't happen....this needs to go to trial. People need to get on the stand, under oath.

IMO MOO

 

[Vern]

If you're locked into the "dead by 3:30 PM timeline" none of this will make sense.

IMO

Seems to me that "dead by 1530hrs" is also the timeline that the D-Teams preferred-LE were going with too (I wonder why that seems to be the concensus amongst LE??) .... and they still couldn't place them there.

That's exactly why it makes sense that the D-Team is now trying to push the timing of the murders to later in the day.

IMO

 

[TTF14]

Regardless, that notion feels more like something out of a bad spy novel than something that could realistically happen.

I know. But what if it did?

 

[TTF14]

Seems to me that "dead by 1530hrs" is also the timeline that the D-Teams preferred-LE were going with too (I wonder why that seems to be the concensus amongst LE??) .... and they still couldn't place them there.

rsbm bbm

I'm not sure what you mean by this?

 

[photographer4]

Oh yay.
I had a Deja vu feeling that it would appear.
Franks 5: Attack of the Franks

jmo

Owing to a lack of time, I haven't read this yet, does it by chance suggest a bird dropped the bullet at the scene??? LMAO. I jest of course... but I wouldn't blame them for trying. LMAO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Owing to a lack of time, I haven't read this yet, does it by chance suggest a bird dropped the bullet at the scene??? LMAO. I jest of course... but I wouldn't blame them for trying. LMAO

Not quite, ha. PW cut a chicken’s head off, and BH liked some nasty FB posts.

I will say the first ten pages is legal documentation of precedent cases. Fair enough. The final 17 pages are rehash of each of the alternate suspect stories. KAK and RL weren’t discussed in the first four editions of the Franks, so that is new. Also a good bit about the phone allegedly turning on at 4:33 am.

Notably, on pg 16, it’s mentioned twice that prosecution states that RA left by 3:30 pm. Defense does not appear to dispute that time, which is in contrast to previous reports that he was gone by 1:30 pm.

jmo

 

[ClearAhead]

One really has to wonder why she refuses to have a hearing on these issues? I am not a lawyer and have wondered, is there any actual harm that could come from her holding a Frank's Hearing? It seems there may be some harm from her *not* hearing the motion(s) - possible future appeals based on the lack of hearings or possibly (?) a Supreme Court Challenge (if they agreed to hear one?).

As the D want the SW tossed, the onus is on them to provide evidence that LE lied. As they’re unable to do so, a hearing would be a complete waste of time. Without proof it wasn’t, then the SW was lawfully obtained. I presume allegations of LE lying have very serious implications, that’s the harm IMO.

What’s the harm if the D were to move on by allowing the SW to stand, could be asked as well?

 

[TTF14]

As the D want the SW tossed, the onus is on them to provide evidence that LE lied. As they’re unable to do so, a hearing would be a complete waste of time.

rsbm

But, how do we know for sure without getting Liggitt (sp?) on the stand? What's the harm in having a hearing, having him testify to clear things up? Seems like they are afraid of what he will be forced to say under oath.

IMO

 

[ClearAhead]

rsbm

But, how do we know for sure without getting Liggitt (sp?) on the stand? What's the harm in having a hearing, having him testify to clear things up? Seems like they are afraid of what he will be forced to say under oath.

IMO

The D already interviewed Liggett did they not? IMO just the interview with DD being discovered was likely enough to support the PCA. The D are caught up in hen pecking minor details that are better saved for trial. At some point in time I hope there’s some kind of sanctions for the D for filing repetitive motions and wasting the court’s time.

The harm is the Judge can’t break the rules of criminal procedure as it relates to granting Frank’s Hearings and the D surely know that. Guaranteed that would come back to bite her. JMO

 

[TTF14]

The D already interviewed Liggett did they not? IMO just the interview with DD being discovered was likely enough to support the PCA. The D are caught up in hen pecking minor details that are better saved for trial. At some point in time I hope there’s some kind of sanctions for the D for filing repetitive motions and wasting the court’s time.

The harm is the Judge can’t break the rules of criminal procedure as it relates to granting Frank’s Hearings and the D surely know that. Guaranteed that would come back to bite her. JMO

I think her refusal to even hear matters will come back to bite her more than anything else. That's one reason why I think she will deny the State's motion in limine as it pertains to their requests for exclusion of third party evidence. As stated in today's filing, the burden is very low. I think the DT has met it ten times over.

 

[ClearAhead]

I think her refusal to even hear matters will come back to bite her more than anything else. That's one reason why I think she will deny the State's motion in limine as it pertains to their requests for exclusion of third party evidence. As stated in today's filing, the burden is very low. I think the DT has met it ten times over.

Well we’ll see but the Judge rules her courtroom. Not the defense.

 

[Spartygirl]

The D already interviewed Liggett did they not? IMO just the interview with DD being discovered was likely enough to support the PCA. The D are caught up in hen pecking minor details that are better saved for trial. At some point in time I hope there’s some kind of sanctions for the D for filing repetitive motions and wasting the court’s time.

Exactly !!!
A complete waste of the court's time !!!
It is a deja vu times 5 UGH

My guess is, the D team will delay trial AGAIN as they just keep filing these ridiculous FMs over and over instead of preparing for a real trial for their client.
I almost actually feel sorry for RA-- his Defense is in the toilet and they just keep spitting out the $hit to see what sticks.

I feel most sorry for Libby and Abby and families-
They don't deserve any of this at all !!
Libby and Abby's lives were NOT spared and the horror they must have felt knowing their lives were ending AS TEENAGERS at the hand of this Monster !!!

RA-- your days are numbered and your D-team is not doing you any favors !!
JMO

 

[grannygates]

I was under the impression that this memo is a follow up from the hearing regarding the states motion in limine to exclude all the 3rd party evidence, not a franks or contesting the search warrant. I was taking it as an FYI summary of facts for the judge to consider when ruling on the states motion.