Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[SouthEnd]

So is Odins did it out at trial?

JG hasn't ruled on this motion yet, since the DT only submitted the supporting Memos yesterday, I believe, IMO

 

[susiQ]

IMO it is just as likely she told the truth initially and after a fight or becoming angry with her brother she told a different story?

I don’t see it that way. Personally, just because I had a fight with my brother I would not then fabricate a story to implicate said brother in such a brutal murder. That, is a bridge too far for me. JMHO

 

[m00c0w]

yeah. based on the words you highlighted in the last thread seems they missed the boat.

One other takeaway from the two orders today is that JG ordered both parties to exchange a list of trial exhibits by October 1. So as of now, she's still anticipating the trial starting as scheduled.

JMO

 

[tlcya]

I don’t see it that way. Personally, just because I had a fight with my brother I would not then fabricate a story to implicate said brother in such a brutal murder. That, is a bridge too far for me. JMHO

I would too, but would also consider lying to cover for a brother in a double murder investigation a bridge too far.

 

[TTF14]

It’s not looking good for the D’s Odinist theory.

Judge again denies Delphi suspect Richard Allen's motion to dismiss

Special Judge Frances Gull says there's no evidence that prosecutors "acted in bad faith."

www.jconline.com

“But Gull said there has been no proof of any evidence incriminating Holder, "nor has any evidence been presented to negate the evidence offered by the State which cleared Brad Holder of involvement in these crimes," Gull wrote.”

If evidence against BH was among the "lost" evidence, of course there wouldn't be evidence of his involvement.

JG did not rule that evidence wasn't "lost." Just that it wasn't done intentionally. (ETA: I'll beg to differ on that one, but respect her decision as judge.)

So, I guess it's the right call, legally speaking, on her part, right? If there's no evidence against BH (because it was "accidentally" "lost"), she can't rule in favor of the defense.

Feels like we're in a hamster wheel.

IMO MOO

 

[snarast]

If evidence against BH was among the "lost" evidence, of course there wouldn't be evidence of his involvement.

JG did not rule that evidence wasn't "lost." Just that it wasn't done intentionally. (ETA: I'll beg to differ on that one, but respect her decision as judge.)

So, I guess it's the right call, legally speaking, on her part, right? If there's no evidence against BH (because it was "accidentally" "lost"), she can't rule in favor of the defense.

Feels like we're in a hamster wheel.

IMO MOO

It feels like focus should be on KK. He is maliciously linked to the victims right around the time of their deaths.

What do we know - he could have lured them out on a treasure hunt. He may have confessed with purposefully false details in order to cast interest on RA while showcasing his own ”great alibi”.

Again, clarifying - I think RA is involved but he may not be alone.

 

[Salah11]

If evidence against BH was among the "lost" evidence, of course there wouldn't be evidence of his involvement.

JG did not rule that evidence wasn't "lost." Just that it wasn't done intentionally. (ETA: I'll beg to differ on that one, but respect her decision as judge.)

So, I guess it's the right call, legally speaking, on her part, right? If there's no evidence against BH (because it was "accidentally" "lost"), she can't rule in favor of the defense.

Feels like we're in a hamster wheel.

IMO MOO

Oh well back to the man on the bridge that can be placed there who is RA according to the prosecution.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Would the stress of the situation have an effect on digestion? I would this skew the timeline if so?

Can you clarify what it is about the timeline that would change who is responsible?


A Snapchat photo of AW was uploaded at 2:13 PM.


The girls were approached by the killer around 2:19( I can't remember the time stamp for the video)

They were instructed to move down the hill.

LG'S phone stopped recording steps within 18 minutes.

The girls were murdered on RLs property, where they were found.

Searchers began looking for the girls by 4PM . They continued until their bodies were discovered at around 12:15 PM on February 14th, 2017.

Do any of these pieces not fit the timeline that we have been given?

I would like to understand how the timeline could be much different and how that would implicate someone else?

 

[photographer4]

Yes, that absolute Fear and Terror. It’s just unimaginable. Even for adults, it would have been absolutely horrific, but at their age I can not even begin to imagine it. That's why Libby having the foresight to record him approaching is beyond amazing. I have no words for how much I admire her strength and courage.

I wish they had never been there that day. But I do wonder if they were stalked.

 

[photographer4]

From your source, same page:

On two previous occasions [the sister] had denied that [EF] had made incriminating statements to her

The incriminating statement was only revealed in an interview that occurred after the “spit” interview. She previously denied any incriminating statements. At best, her own statement is impeachable by her other interviews.

JMO

So the sister lied. Either when she said he made incriminating statements or when she said he didn’t. Both cannot be correct. Yikes. What would cause her to retract her statement I wonder?

 

[Salah11]

I wish they had never been there that day. But I do wonder if they were stalked.

I believe Libby could have been catfished by RA but unfortunately 5 years is a long time to get rid of a lot of evidence.

The Time-Line is super close so I think Libby innocently made plans that morning not realizing the danger. Thats why he arrived like 10-15 mins before the girls as it hadn’t long been arranged.

IMO no proof just my hunch.

 

[photographer4]

RA confessed, can't wait to hear it!

Pls clarify - do you mean since the pre trial hearings? Or the several prior?

 

[m00c0w]

Can you clarify what it is about the timeline that would change who is responsible?


A Snapchat photo of AW was uploaded at 2:13 PM.


The girls were approached by the killer around 2:19( I can't remember the time stamp for the video)

They were instructed to move down the hill.

LG'S phone stopped recording steps within 18 minutes.

The girls were murdered on RLs property, where they were found.

Searchers began looking for the girls by 4PM . They continued until their bodies were discovered at around 12:15 PM on February 14th, 2017.

Do any of these pieces not fit the timeline that we have been given?

I would like to understand how the timeline could be much different and how that would implicate someone else?

This is why the defense is trying to hit the 4:33am text messages so hard - they're trying to claim that the girls were actually murdered around 4:33am and that none of the Odinists' alibis account for this variation in the timeline.

The issue with this is that they don't have a good answer to who BG is and how BG then becomes uninvolved in the crimes. The door is still open for RA to be BG, and the Odinists just join in later. The direction this is going will quickly result in RA admitting to kidnapping the girls but denying culpability for the murders.

All my opinion.

 

[CCJD]

Can you clarify what it is about the timeline that would change who is responsible?


A Snapchat photo of AW was uploaded at 2:13 PM.

RSBM

From Indy Channel - the photo of Abby was posted at 2:07

Delphi Timeline

 

[photographer4]

Can you clarify what it is about the timeline that would change who is responsible?


A Snapchat photo of AW was uploaded at 2:13 PM.


The girls were approached by the killer around 2:19( I can't remember the time stamp for the video)

They were instructed to move down the hill.

LG'S phone stopped recording steps within 18 minutes.

The girls were murdered on RLs property, where they were found.

Searchers began looking for the girls by 4PM . They continued until their bodies were discovered at around 12:15 PM on February 14th, 2017.

Do any of these pieces not fit the timeline that we have been given?

I would like to understand how the timeline could be much different and how that would implicate someone else?

I’d like to understand these things as well which is why I wonder what timeline the State has vs the Defense. Going to be interesting to see where they align and where they may differ!

 

[TTF14]

This is why the defense is trying to hit the 4:33am text messages so hard - they're trying to claim that the girls were actually murdered around 4:33am and that none of the Odinists' alibis account for this variation in the timeline.

The issue with this is that they don't have a good answer to who BG is and how BG then becomes uninvolved in the crimes. The door is still open for RA to be BG, and the Odinists just join in later. The direction this is going will quickly result in RA admitting to kidnapping the girls but denying culpability for the murders.

All my opinion.

I'm not sure the defense is trying to claim that they were murdered at 4:33. A phone being turned on is definitely not evidence of a murder. But, it does point to someone other than RA being involved since he was presumably home sleeping in his bed at that point. So, who was out there and turned on the phone if not RA?

IMO MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

If evidence against BH was among the "lost" evidence, of course there wouldn't be evidence of his involvement.

JG did not rule that evidence wasn't "lost." Just that it wasn't done intentionally. (ETA: I'll beg to differ on that one, but respect her decision as judge.)

So, I guess it's the right call, legally speaking, on her part, right? If there's no evidence against BH (because it was "accidentally" "lost"), she can't rule in favor of the defense.

Feels like we're in a hamster wheel.

IMO MOO

As I recall there exists a transcript of the lost interview so the contents of the interview is not truly lost. It too far a ridiculous giant leap that BH incriminated himself during that initial interview causing LE to have to cover up for him, just so they could spend more than five years waiting to arrest RA.

The D is going to lose all credibility if the best they can do is make accusations of corruption, fraud and lax investigations without any proof, while ignoring the evidence mounting against their own client. JMO

 

[m00c0w]

I'm not sure the defense is trying to claim that they were murdered at 4:33. A phone being turned on is definitely not evidence of a murder. But, it does point to someone other than RA being involved since he was presumably home sleeping in his bed at that point. So, who was out there and turned on the phone if not RA?

IMO MOO

BBM

That is what I would think, too. But that doesn't seem to be the case:

If [AW] and [LG] were killed around 4:33 a.m. on February 14, 2017, [BH]’s alibi for 3:30 p.m. on February 13, 2017 is meaningless, as is his alleged alibi that he was at Workout Anytime at 2:00 a.m. on February 14, 2017 (the only time he ever went to the gym at 2:00 a.m.)

 

[photographer4]

I believe Libby could have been catfished by RA but unfortunately 5 years is a long time to get rid of a lot of evidence.

The Time-Line is super close so I think Libby innocently made plans that morning not realizing the danger. Thats why he arrived like 10-15 mins before the girls as it hadn’t long been arranged.

IMO no proof just my hunch.

I think we agree in some things here but not others. I believe she was stalked yes. I don’t believe she made innocent plans. I can believe she may have had a moment to shoot a mass group text or a snap or a dm to someone or even many people to say they were going to be at the trail. I think it is possible they may have invited others even if by way of open invitation such as “let me know if you’ll be there”. Doesn’t take much and texts are fast to send.

I believe if this happened a lot of people may have known where LG and AW were about to be and that they’d be without adult supervision.

I don’t know who they may have expected to meet or for what reason but I think there was some plan.

What really makes me think so is LG being called a hero by LE for having recorded BG. To be a hero she had to have some knowledge that something was going or about to go very wrong. Something had to have tipped her off. What was it? Did he say something to them that we don’t know? Did they realize someone they planned to meet wasn’t what they were supposed to look like? Imo and with respect, LG is not a hero so much as a kid doing kid things with her friend and her phone on a trail that day. Unless she knew it was about to go south. If she did, I hope we find out what she knew and when she knew it so I too can consider her the hero so many others do.

MOOO

 

[ClearAhead]

I'm not sure the defense is trying to claim that they were murdered at 4:33. A phone being turned on is definitely not evidence of a murder. But, it does point to someone other than RA being involved since he was presumably home sleeping in his bed at that point. So, who was out there and turned on the phone if not RA?

IMO MOO

Why do we assume the phone was turned on? How did I miss that?

Link?