Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[ClearAhead]

I’d like to understand these things as well which is why I wonder what timeline the State has vs the Defense. Going to be interesting to see where they align and where they may differ!

This is the reason criminal trials are held. Patience. It’s unreasonable to expect the prosecution to spell out their case against RA in advance just so the general public doesn’t have to wonder.

The best we can do is watch the antics of the D because they are in the know. Judging by this I’d say the P’s case must be pretty strong.

 

[photographer4]

This is the reason criminal trials are held. Patience. It’s unreasonable to expect the prosecution to spell out their case against RA in advance just so the general public doesn’t have to wonder.

I’m willing to hear both sides out. But I reserve the right to disregard things that don’t add up imo from either side. I don’t think we will ever know what happened that day. Or why.

 

[Ravenmoon]

This is why the defense is trying to hit the 4:33am text messages so hard - they're trying to claim that the girls were actually murdered around 4:33am and that none of the Odinists' alibis account for this variation in the timeline.

The issue with this is that they don't have a good answer to who BG is and how BG then becomes uninvolved in the crimes. The door is still open for RA to be BG, and the Odinists just join in later. The direction this is going will quickly result in RA admitting to kidnapping the girls but denying culpability for the murders.

All my opinion.

This would be interesting if it wasn't absurd. ( I know this isn't your theory, so no shade cast your way)

Under this thought pattern,

BG is only a delivery boy for the Odinists?

He takes them to a vehicle or to the....help me out here,... to a place nearby. Then, later that night, in the cover of complete darkness, with nothing lighting their way, a ritual was performed by sacrificing 2 white girls, again in complete darkness.

One of the Odinists redressed AW, again in darkness, and manually operates Libby's iPhone.

Then, this group is able to disappear and resume whatever their normal daily activities are, unnoticed by their contemporaries.


Is there any established link between RA and the Heathen group? I have not heard of a connection.

 

[m00c0w]

Why do we assume the phone was turned on? How did I miss that?

Link?

It's mainly speculation. What I have been able to piece together from the 3 hearings is that there was a flurry of text messages that indicates LG's phone reconnected to the cell phone tower. We don't really know why this occurred - some might, but we don't. But there are really only a few possibilities, like the phone being turned on, some sort of weird glitch with the phone, the phone being out of range and being brought back into range, or the phone just plain being able to re-acquire a signal for some reason.

I believe the defense is mainly trying to paint the picture that the girls were taken from the crime scene and then returned later, but I don't find that very convincing because they would have had to taken paths to and from that area that were fully out of cell phone range. Otherwise the text messages would have come at a much earlier time.

My speculation would be that sometimes cell tower propagation is just weird and the phone could not establish a good connection to the tower until the right tree was blown in the right direction (or some sort of similar event) that helped clear up the line of sight to the tower just enough to let the phone connect. Ultimately, it takes a lot more info (which I believe the prosecution and defense at least should have) to reach any solid conclusions about the phone.

All my opinion.

 

[m00c0w]

This would be interesting if it wasn't absurd. ( I know this isn't your theory, so no shade cast your way)

Under this thought pattern,

BG is only a delivery boy for the Odinists?

He takes them to a vehicle or to the....help me out here,... to a place nearby. Then, later that night, in the cover of complete darkness, with nothing lighting their way, a ritual was performed by sacrificing 2 white girls, again in complete darkness.

One of the Odinists redressed AW, again in darkness, and manually operates Libby's iPhone.

Then, this group is able to disappear and resume whatever their normal daily activities are, unnoticed by their contemporaries.


Is there any established link between RA and the Heathen group? I have not heard of a connection.

Yeah, that's why I have trouble buying what they're trying to sell. It's a lot cleaner if they just tried to attack the general facts and timeline of the case so that it just excludes RA instead of trying to morph it to include other random people. They're having to do a ton more work to try and paint specific people as guilty.

I guess they may just not be able to take RA off that bridge, as some here have said previously.

JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

RSBM

From Indy Channel - the photo of Abby was posted at 2:07

Delphi Timeline

Awesome, thank you.
So then, the video was likely at 2;13.

Sooooo, is that changing any of the timeline, as we know it?

 

[susiQ]

So the sister lied. Either when she said he made incriminating statements or when she said he didn’t. Both cannot be correct. Yikes. What would cause her to retract her statement I wonder?

Perhaps MJ convinced JM to just tell the truth. JMO

 

[TTF14]

As I recall there exists a transcript of the lost interview so the contents of the interview is not truly lost. It too far a ridiculous giant leap that BH incriminated himself during that initial interview causing LE to have to cover up for him, just so they could spend more than five years waiting to arrest RA.

The D is going to lose all credibility if the best they can do is make accusations of corruption, fraud and lax investigations without any proof, while ignoring the evidence mounting against their own client. JMO

There may be notes, but I don't think there's a transcript. I sure would love to be wrong.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I'm not sure the defense is trying to claim that they were murdered at 4:33. A phone being turned on is definitely not evidence of a murder. But, it does point to someone other than RA being involved since he was presumably home sleeping in his bed at that point. So, who was out there and turned on the phone if not RA?

IMO MOO

IMO, no one did.
It did weird cell phone stuff, like cellphones sometimes do

JMO

 

[ClearAhead]

I’m willing to hear both sides out. But I reserve the right to disregard things that don’t add up imo from either side. I don’t think we will ever know what happened that day. Or why.

Yes it’ll be good to hear both sides. I’ve changed my opinions during trials many a time. One thing I’ve learned about following pretrial SM is much of the chatter and what we think might are facts never makes it inside the courtroom. Meanwhile an opinion might be influenced by it, but if it proves to be garbage there is no public announcement saying so. Right now I’d say 80% speculation is around and about, hardly 20% facts. That’s why everything about this case seems a contentious issue, so far the majority of the information released has been only from the D. MOO

 

[TTF14]

BBM

That is what I would think, too. But that doesn't seem to be the case:

If [AW] and [LG] were killed around 4:33 a.m. on February 14, 2017, [BH]’s alibi for 3:30 p.m. on February 13, 2017 is meaningless, as is his alleged alibi that he was at Workout Anytime at 2:00 a.m. on February 14, 2017 (the only time he ever went to the gym at 2:00 a.m.)

Ah, ok. Yeah, that is worded really weird. Hmm.

 

[TTF14]

IMO, no one did.
It did weird cell phone stuff, like cellphones sometimes do

JMO

Can't wait for expert testimony about this issue. It's extremely important and I think the State was really hoping it would not come in at all.

IMO MOO

 

[ClearAhead]

Why do we assume it wasn't? Link?

Waiting for the transcripts.

I don’t recall a forensic IT expert testifying about the cellphone during the 3 day hearing. That the phone was turned on is only speculation, is it not?

 

[TTF14]

I don’t recall a forensic IT expert testifying about the cellphone during the 3 day hearing. That the phone was turned on is only speculation, is it not?

Yeah, it's why I said "IMO MOO."

My speculation and opinion is that it was off and a human being turned it on.

IMO MOO JMO LMNOP

 

[m00c0w]

There may be notes, but I don't think there's a transcript. I sure would love to be wrong.

IIRC, there was a report (which in my experience is usually similar to a transcript, but isn't a verbatim reconstruction of events), but no video or transcripts. It should be in narrative form ("LT asked about BH's whereabouts on 7/13. BH responded that he was at work at X, and left at Y") and fairly complete, but sometimes things are definitely lost in "translation" between the two. However, I doubt it would have been the smoking gun evidence that exonerated RA.

If the defense had more evidence BH was involved in the crime, this could have cost the state the case against RA. Definitely some pretty terrible work on behalf of whoever recorded over the interviews.

All my opinion.

 

[Salah11]

What really makes me think so is LG being called a hero by LE for having recorded BG. To be a hero she had to have some knowledge that something was going or about to go very wrong. Something had to have tipped her off. What was it? Did he say something to them that we don’t know? Did they realize someone they planned to meet wasn’t what they were supposed to look like? Imo and with respect, LG is not a hero so much as a kid doing kid things with her friend and her phone on a trail that day. Unless she knew it was about to go south. If she did, I hope we find out what she knew and when she knew it so I too can consider her the hero so many others do.

MOOO

Just to come to this point I think crossing that bridge there would be unofficial rules of conduct.

So two young girls being stalked by a man that’s concealing his face and trapping them at the end would make anybody jittery.

The bridge doesn’t look that safe so I can not imagine if you was a normal person you would walk it and try and pass anybody on it. I would wait until the people on the bridge are done and then take my turn.

IMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

Can't wait for expert testimony about this issue. It's extremely important and I think the State was really hoping it would not come in at all.

IMO MOO

JMO, but if LG'S phone did power on, I sincerely doubt that the P would try to hide it.

They will most certainly have an expert testify about how it happened, if it did.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

Yes it’ll be good to hear both sides. I’ve changed my opinions during trials many a time. One thing I’ve learned about following pretrial SM is much of the chatter and what we think might are facts never makes it inside the courtroom. Meanwhile an opinion might be influenced by it, but if it proves to be garbage there is no public announcement saying so. Right now I’d say 80% speculation is around and about, hardly 20% facts. That’s why everything about this case seems a contentious issue, so far the majority of the information released has been only from the D. MOO

My personal opinion on many cases is this:

The secrecy usually does not help resolve the cases. What it seems to do is create a lot of rumours and speculation. None of which help in the end. Put the facts out and keep them updated as you go along is my view.

 

[sunshineray]

JG hasn't ruled on this motion yet, since the DT only submitted the supporting Memos yesterday, I believe, IMO

She did though take the foundation out from the Odinist theory by removing BH and declaring he had been cleared by LE as having been able to commit the murders. MO

 

[Salah11]

She did though take the foundation out from the Odinist theory by removing BH and declaring he had been cleared by LE as having been able to commit the murders. MO

I hope he sleeps easier tonight