Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[sunshineray]

If evidence against BH was among the "lost" evidence, of course there wouldn't be evidence of his involvement.

JG did not rule that evidence wasn't "lost." Just that it wasn't done intentionally. (ETA: I'll beg to differ on that one, but respect her decision as judge.)

So, I guess it's the right call, legally speaking, on her part, right? If there's no evidence against BH (because it was "accidentally" "lost"), she can't rule in favor of the defense.

Feels like we're in a hamster wheel.

IMO MOO

He was cleared by alibis.

 

[m00c0w]

My personal opinion on many cases is this:

The secrecy usually does not help resolve the cases. What it seems to do is create a lot of rumours and speculation. None of which help in the end. Put the facts out and keep them updated as you go along is my view.

The issue with this is potentially biasing a jury. The full intent of the gag order is to try and prevent information that may prejudice a jury from being released, but that is a hard task to accomplish when so much is said in publicly available court motions.

As an example, some facts may be eventually disallowed at trial. If some huge "bombshell" is released but the defense winds up winning a suppression hearing and getting those facts excluded, it makes it a lot harder to find a jury pool that won't have been prejudiced by the wide media reporting of the "bombshell".

Just my opinion.

 

[sunshineray]

It feels like focus should be on KK. He is maliciously linked to the victims right around the time of their deaths.

What do we know - he could have lured them out on a treasure hunt. He may have confessed with purposefully false details in order to cast interest on RA while showcasing his own ”great alibi”.

Again, clarifying - I think RA is involved but he may not be alone.

Or it's possible someone could have used his CSAM set-up knowledge, that he was using to distribute, as a means to catfish kids themselves, independent of KAK?

 

[statt#1]

This would be interesting if it wasn't absurd. ( I know this isn't your theory, so no shade cast your way)

Under this thought pattern,

BG is only a delivery boy for the Odinists?

He takes them to a vehicle or to the....help me out here,... to a place nearby. Then, later that night, in the cover of complete darkness, with nothing lighting their way, a ritual was performed by sacrificing 2 white girls, again in complete darkness.

One of the Odinists redressed AW, again in darkness, and manually operates Libby's iPhone.

Then, this group is able to disappear and resume whatever their normal daily activities are, unnoticed by their contemporaries.


Is there any established link between RA and the Heathen group? I have not heard of a connection.

The absurdity of the scenario is astonishing. The whole group left no trace. No dna, no gang of footprints, no witnesses, no cam showing their vehicles, no sign of activity in the cemetery, or up and down the hill from there to the crime scene, nothing.

However, RA confessed. Multiple times. In recorded phone conversations. With detail. And reported motive.

Can't wait to hear it.

 

[TTF14]

Or it's possible someone could have used his CSAM set-up knowledge, that he was using to distribute, as a means to catfish kids themselves, independent of KAK?

Like he showed them the ropes you mean?

 

[sunshineray]

Can you clarify what it is about the timeline that would change who is responsible?


A Snapchat photo of AW was uploaded at 2:13 PM.


The girls were approached by the killer around 2:19( I can't remember the time stamp for the video)

They were instructed to move down the hill.

LG'S phone stopped recording steps within 18 minutes.

The girls were murdered on RLs property, where they were found.

Searchers began looking for the girls by 4PM . They continued until their bodies were discovered at around 12:15 PM on February 14th, 2017.

Do any of these pieces not fit the timeline that we have been given?

I would like to understand how the timeline could be much different and how that would implicate someone else?

And the bench picture's time taken by a witness in a group who saw RA and he admitted seeing.

 

[tlcya]

The absurdity of the scenario is astonishing. The whole group left no trace. No dna, no gang of footprints, no witnesses, no cam showing their vehicles, no sign of activity in the cemetery, or up and down the hill from there to the crime scene, nothing.

However, RA confessed. Multiple times. In recorded phone conversations. With detail. And reported motive.

Can't wait to hear it.

BBM and even more astonishing is that they managed to do that all in the dead of night, while an entire town, including LE, was already on high alert and had spend the evening searching high and low for these victims.

Which makes me ask too, in the DT theory of a group of Odinists ritually sacrificing girls in this clearing, how do they explain how the cult knew when it would be safe to go out and engage in their sacrifice? I mean, did the just wait around for news that the official search had been called off for the night and take their chance sneaking down there?

 

[photographer4]

The issue with this is potentially biasing a jury. The full intent of the gag order is to try and prevent information that may prejudice a jury from being released, but that is a hard task to accomplish when so much is said in publicly available court motions.

As an example, some facts may be eventually disallowed at trial. If some huge "bombshell" is released but the defense winds up winning a suppression hearing and getting those facts excluded, it makes it a lot harder to find a jury pool that won't have been prejudiced by the wide media reporting of the "bombshell".

Just my opinion.

Meh. I don’t think gag orders work well either tbh. Look at this case. People still think the D violated one with their F motion one last fall. But they didn’t. Because as someone in the last thread explained, gags don’t apply to motions before the court. The information they wanted out got out and the order was useless in stopping it. Worse, the order prevents the P from correcting it. Leaving the public and maybe possible jurors with incorrect or assumed info that may be hard to overcome at trial. Nagging doubts abound. Maybe the other issue is the length of time from arrest to trial. Or even crime to arrest.
Heck rumours were swirling even before the arrest about BH et al (defense franks one pls don’t make me link it again or I swear it’s becoming my signature).

 

[sunshineray]

I'm not sure the defense is trying to claim that they were murdered at 4:33. A phone being turned on is definitely not evidence of a murder. But, it does point to someone other than RA being involved since he was presumably home sleeping in his bed at that point. So, who was out there and turned on the phone if not RA?

IMO MOO

The phone itself...as the battery was winding down completely...someone posted about it being a known phenomenon that can and does occur plus sometimes a delayed reception issue too. Maybe that poster can kindly post that info again?

 

[statt#1]

BBM and even more astonishing is that they managed to do that all in the dead of night, while an entire town, including LE, was already on high alert and had spend the evening searching high and low for these victims.

Which makes me ask too, in the DT theory of a group of Odinists ritually sacrificing girls in this clearing, how do they explain how the cult knew when it would be safe to go out and engage in their sacrifice? I mean, did the just wait around for news that the official search had been called off for the night and take their chance sneaking down there?

Thank you.

And it's important to consider the CS location and access to it. It's not an easy place to get to, you're not backing your car down there. It's across the bridge down the hill across the creek, or from the cemetery, or maybe through wooded terrain on the high ground north side of creek...then down the hill.

Early discussion, years ago, included description and video of simply scaling the fence surrounding the cemetery to get to the steep wooded hill down to the CS. Even RL, in early vids, is interviewed in that area, atop the ridge. No way a bunch of O folk were moving bodies up and down and around under cover of darkness undetected at that time and leaving no trace.

 

[justtrish]

BBM and even more astonishing is that they managed to do that all in the dead of night, while an entire town, including LE, was already on high alert and had spend the evening searching high and low for these victims.

Which makes me ask too, in the DT theory of a group of Odinists ritually sacrificing girls in this clearing, how do they explain how the cult knew when it would be safe to go out and engage in their sacrifice? I mean, did the just wait around for news that the official search had been called off for the night and take their chance sneaking down there?

I would guess they needed to wait for BH to finish his 2am workout..

Kidding of course.. I don't think BH had anything to do with this and I certainly don't think anyone was returning at any time after say 4pm to do anything with the crime scene or to the girls or Libby's phone.

 

[TTF14]

The phone itself...as the battery was winding down completely...someone posted about it being a known phenomenon that can and does occur plus sometimes a delayed reception issue too. Maybe that poster can kindly post that info again?

I saw it. I just don't believe that's what happened. But thank you.

 

[sunshineray]

I think we agree in some things here but not others. I believe she was stalked yes. I don’t believe she made innocent plans. I can believe she may have had a moment to shoot a mass group text or a snap or a dm to someone or even many people to say they were going to be at the trail. I think it is possible they may have invited others even if by way of open invitation such as “let me know if you’ll be there”. Doesn’t take much and texts are fast to send.

I believe if this happened a lot of people may have known where LG and AW were about to be and that they’d be without adult supervision.

I don’t know who they may have expected to meet or for what reason but I think there was some plan.

What really makes me think so is LG being called a hero by LE for having recorded BG. To be a hero she had to have some knowledge that something was going or about to go very wrong. Something had to have tipped her off. What was it? Did he say something to them that we don’t know? Did they realize someone they planned to meet wasn’t what they were supposed to look like? Imo and with respect, LG is not a hero so much as a kid doing kid things with her friend and her phone on a trail that day. Unless she knew it was about to go south. If she did, I hope we find out what she knew and when she knew it so I too can consider her the hero so many others do.

MOOO

She was a 14 year old girl and her 13 year old friend was with her. They'd notice that a man was crossing over the bridge towards them leaving them to have to wait (to dangerous to go out onto the bridge and pass by him there) and meet up with an unknown and creepy guy. The girls discussed going the other way to avoid him but it was private property (mentioned in AW's interview posted numerous times) and so their age and dispositions kept them from doing so, heartbreaking, those sweet children. Libby's instincts were very keen in that situation. I've always thought maybe she meant to video him to show her Dad or Gramps later to see if they knew who he was. AW also mentioned Abby saying,(paraphrazing) let's just go that way. I think her fight or flight was kicking in as he got closer...again heartbreaking AJMO to what they were thinking and feeling </3

 

[Spartygirl]

As I recall there exists a transcript of the lost interview so the contents of the interview is not truly lost. It too far a ridiculous giant leap that BH incriminated himself during that initial interview causing LE to have to cover up for him, just so they could spend more than five years waiting to arrest RA.

The D is going to lose all credibility if the best they can do is make accusations of corruption, fraud and lax investigations without any proof, while ignoring the evidence mounting against their own client. JMO

BBM
IMO, and apparently a lot of others,
this Defense Team has ALREADY lost Credibility.

They have nothing else to defend their client, so they just keep spinning the same ole, same ole BS over & over.

 

[photographer4]

She was a 14 year old girl and her 13 year old friend was with her. They'd notice that a man was crossing over the bridge towards them leaving them to have to wait (to dangerous to go out onto the bridge and pass by him there) and meet up with an unknown and creepy guy. The girls discussed going the other way to avoid him but it was private property (mentioned in AW's interview posted numerous times) and so their age and dispositions kept them from doing so, heartbreaking, those sweet children. Libby's instincts were very keen in that situation. I've always thought maybe she meant to video him to show her Dad or Gramps later to see if they knew who he was. AW also mentioned Abby saying,(paraphrazing) let's just go that way. I think her fight or flight was kicking in as he got closer...again heartbreaking AJMO to what they were thinking and feeling </3

Its a shame they weren't able to (for whatever reason, fear, panic, signal issues) call 911. That there was no one there to intervene and help them!! Its a horrific thing they experienced, and an ongoing endless horror for their loved ones.

 

[susiQ]

TH said the JM borrowed her car to go to Delphi around the time of the murders to meet up with his Vinlander friends and it came back smeared with what appeared to be blood. I wonder if LE searched the HH video for that car, whatever make/model it happened to be?? Would be “clever” to use someone else’s car, wouldn’t it??

 

[sunshineray]

I’m willing to hear both sides out. But I reserve the right to disregard things that don’t add up imo from either side. I don’t think we will ever know what happened that day. Or why.

I do believe it was mentioned at the hearings by an ISP officer that listened to all RA recordings that a motive was mention by RA. We may hear it in his own words at trial.

 

[TTF14]

I do believe it was mentioned at the hearings by an ISP officer that listened to all RA recordings that a motive was mention by RA. We may hear it in his own words at trial.

Do you have a link?

 

[photographer4]

I do believe it was mentioned at the hearings by an ISP officer that listened to all RA recordings that a motive was mention by RA. We may hear it in his own words at trial.

I'm afraid that at this moment, I put zero faith in any "confessions" made by RA. This may change as we learn more about them and what he said, when, and other factors including whether he made them before or after he read the disclosure etc.....

 

[Ravenmoon]

TH said the JM borrowed her car to go to Delphi around the time of the murders to meet up with his Vinlander friends and it came back smeared with what appeared to be blood. I wonder if LE searched the HH video for that car, whatever make/model it happened to be?? Would be “clever” to use someone else’s car, wouldn’t it??

Can you provide a link please?