Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[photographer4]

Obviously, to me, a gag order was and is needed, otherwise the case would be even more in the engine of SM affecting prospective jurors. The Due Process Gang made it clear, to me, that was the DT's plan from the start and at present also.
I view that as an unethical mindset and damaging to the system of justice. AJMO

Well, I can’t really offer much comment on the whole “Due Process Gang” thing other than to say, it’s a podcast that is reporting it. I’ll believe it if and when some actual evidence emerges that it is true entirely and not out of context.

 

[susiQ]

Wow! That is quite the article.

Some other claims in this article:

"Police believe they were kidnapped at 2:14 pm and killed within 18 minutes."

"The bombshell report also revealed investigators were looking into whether the girls were victims of a botched kidnapping plot by a local pedophile ring.

Sources close to the investigation claimed that Allen was acting with at least two other men and was involved in a child *** ring, and McLeland openly stated that he believes 'Allen is not the only actor involved in this'."

Haunting new details about Delphi murders are revealed in court

Libby German, 14, and Abby Williams, 13, disappeared on February 13, 2017, while hiking the Monon High Bridge Trail in Delphi, Indiana. Richard Allen, 51, was charged with their murders

www.dailymail.co.uk

And in this article, they say RA has ties to KK. That KK cut a deal and led them to RA.

Also: "
According to the source, investigators believe that the plan had been for Allen to kidnap the girls and bring them to Logan's home where he and, allegedly Kline, would rape them.

They said: 'The girls were supposed to be kidnapped for the sex ring, but something went wrong, and he knifed and raped one and almost decapitated the other.

'Logan and Kline never met the girls.'"

Also says a cell phone was taken from the scene.


This is a lot of information we haven't heard. I wonder if any of it is true.

Not sure we can take the Daily Fail seriously. If RA has links to KAK and a “sex ring” why on earth would R & B bother defending him at all? Prevent him from pleading guilty? They have the discovery! AND, go so far as to state they believe RA is innocent. Even Lebrato believed RA innocent of this crime. And please spare me the “that’s what all defence attorneys do.”(not you TTF14), Trust me, R & B would be better off financially without this cluster muck. Oh, and don’t bother with, “they’re doing it for publicity.” I’ve heard that plenty too. JMHO

 

[photographer4]

It's at this link, the blood expert Cisero, I believe...Part 3.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

Thanks but I don’t really do podcasts generally speaking. Hoping a transcript will be out soon!!

 

[photographer4]

An autopsy would unable to determine an exact time of death, but it generally includes an estimated time, possibly between the hours of X and X.

Considering that, if someone wanted to mislead I suppose it is true the autopsy did not include a time of death.

The “estimate” won’t be that hard in this case imo - they were alive when they snapped a photo at 2:13 (ish) on the 13th. They were not alive when found on the 14th. They were dead and found within 24 hours. This is crazy to me that there is no time of death???!! This should have been a fairly easy estimate to give imo…… ALL MOOO.

 

[susiQ]

Of those surveyed, 88% of press and 85% of judges described the initiative so far as “good” or “great.”
***

Unfortunately, JG is not one of them! Not surprising, at all. Her favourite expression appears to be “DENIED with hearing!” JMHO
ETA
*without hearing* CORRECTION
Can’t imagine how I made THAT error, lol!

 

[photographer4]

It's also as simple as that for defense lawyers to do what their client wants. Either that or have him declared incompetent to make decisions. They work for him, not for themselves. MO

I have seen nothing official to say that RA has ever asked his lawyers to find him a plea deal, or to change his plea to guilty though. For all the times he has “confessed”, you’d think hat if he were serious, he’d be writing the judge to advise his team isn’t listening to him, or screaming about it in court? Then it would be up to her to either find him unable to assist in his own defense due to mental incompetence or to find him guilty accordingly. Maybe it’s a game for the accused - confess to everyone BUT the judge? I don’T know.. but I put zero faith in those confessions at this point in light of the lack of information about their actual contents to date.

 

[SouthEnd]

I’d love for the SODDI guys to claim defamation - because in order for them to win, wouldn’t they then have to prove the D was wrong and / lying? Not a lawyer, so genuine question here.

From the latest MS episode - legally you can't sue for defamation if someone mentions you in a legal filing. However Greenlee mentioned a different case, in which lawyers mentioned an alternative suspect during a televised interview and that's how they got sued. It's a thin line, in my opinion.

 

[sunshineray]

Well, I can’t really offer much comment on the whole “Due Process Gang” thing other than to say, it’s a podcast that is reporting it. I’ll believe it if and when some actual evidence emerges that it is true entirely and not out of context.

The man who whistle blew it was in the Due Process Gang and he had all the receipts of what he told them. He gave them the emails/messages. He spoke about it all himself, on their podcast.

The Delphi Murders: The Unacceptable

It's no secret that the Delphi murders case has attracted a robust and at times confounding internet following. But some have carved out an especially extreme and troubling niche within that space. This episode covers the bizarre online behavior by the following so-called internet sleuths...

art19.com

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

 

[photographer4]

From the latest MS episode - legally you can't sue for defamation if someone mentions you in a legal filing. However Greenlee mentioned a different case, in which lawyers mentioned an alternative suspect during a televised interview and that's how they got sued. It's a thin line, in my opinion.

If I were 100% innocent of this crime for which the D were accusing me? I’d be all over this - all the way up to the highest court! Maybe it’s time for the laws to be changed so that this cannot happen. I don’t have a problem with SODDI in legal filings at all - but with people being named and called out? That is not ok imo. That should / could go privately to the judge imo and then it wouldn’t risk ruining someone’s life who was innocent the accusation.

 

[photographer4]

The man who whistle blew it was in the Due Process Gang and he had all the receipts of what he told them. He gave them the emails/messages. He spoke about it all himself, on their podcast.

The Delphi Murders: The Unacceptable

It's no secret that the Delphi murders case has attracted a robust and at times confounding internet following. But some have carved out an especially extreme and troubling niche within that space. This episode covers the bizarre online behavior by the following so-called internet sleuths...

art19.com

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

So just because someone says so, to an entertainment outlet, we should all believe it?

 

[susiQ]

61+ confessions is not normal.

RSBBM
And for me, the fact that it is not normal makes it extremely suspect in my mind. Why would someone confess 61 times? Totally unnecessary. Call your attorney, confess and tell them you want to plead guilty. The fact that he was not able to do this, either because he was in psychosis or they wouldn’t let him raises a LOT of questions in my mind. JMO

 

[Vern]

Cell phone stopped tracing steps and all movement a mere 18 minutes after the girls were kidnapped off the bridge. Which co-incides with when authorities believe the deaths occured.

What's RA's alibi for that time period? Because the same alibi time period will have to apply to any/all 'other potential perps'.

 

[sunshineray]

If I were 100% innocent of this crime for which the D were accusing me? I’d be all over this - all the way up to the highest court! Maybe it’s time for the laws to be changed so that this cannot happen. I don’t have a problem with SODDI in legal filings at all - but with people being named and called out? That is not ok imo. That should / could go privately to the judge imo and then it wouldn’t risk ruining someone’s life who was innocent the accusation.

Yeah isn't it wonderful what RA's DT has done under the hat of just being zealous for their client? Let's thrown these men's names out there and call them child murderers. Who cares if it's not true. Who cares if it adversely effects their lives and families. Criminal actions, IMO

 

[katydid23]

If evidence against BH was among the "lost" evidence, of course there wouldn't be evidence of his involvement.

JG did not rule that evidence wasn't "lost." Just that it wasn't done intentionally. (ETA: I'll beg to differ on that one, but respect her decision as judge.)

So, I guess it's the right call, legally speaking, on her part, right? If there's no evidence against BH (because it was "accidentally" "lost"), she can't rule in favor of the defense.

Feels like we're in a hamster wheel.

IMO MOO

If there had been any evidence against him, back before those tapes were recorded over---LE would have acted upon that evidence at the time. They were actively investigating BH and thinking he might have been their suspect. So why wouldn't they have continued pursuing him, IF THERE WAS ANY EVIDENCE of his guilt?

The hamster wheel feeling only exists because the D is speculating that there is some kind solid evidence that was covered up by LE. That is faulty speculation, in my opinion. He had a solid work alibi.

 

[sunshineray]

RSBBM
And for me, the fact that it is not normal makes it extremely suspect in my mind. Why would someone confess 61 times? Totally unnecessary. Call your attorney, confess and tell them you want to plead guilty. The fact that he was not able to do this, either because he was in psychosis or they wouldn’t let him raises a LOT of questions in my mind. JMO

Well if his defense team had listened to their client it probably wouldn't have been so many times. If they thought something amiss about the number of times racking up, why didn't they have Ricky evaluated, I wonder? Maybe they were afraid the evaluators would say he was of sound mind and then they'd have to do as he wished? MO

 

[m00c0w]

The “estimate” won’t be that hard in this case imo - they were alive when they snapped a photo at 2:13 (ish) on the 13th. They were not alive when found on the 14th. They were dead and found within 24 hours. This is crazy to me that there is no time of death???!! This should have been a fairly easy estimate to give imo…… ALL MOOO.

Well, isn’t a time of death usually issued in a clinical setting? Medical examiners usually give estimates based on many factors and it’s usually a range instead of a specific time, unless I’m mistaken. Which is possible.

It might not be a lie to say “there is no time of death on the autopsy report”, but that also doesn’t mean there wasn’t an estimated range. And the difference in times between theories (more than 12 hours) with the bodies being found within about 8 hours of the defense’s claims also makes me skeptical of this particular claim.

It should be relatively trivial to gauge whether the girls were killed closer to 8 hours ago or 20 hours ago just based on the general appearance and characteristics (rigor would be a big one).

I don’t buy that there’s just zero idea of when they were killed based on forensics. I’m not even clear on where this statement originated because context is going to be everything surrounding how this was asked and answered. Or if it was even asked and not just said by one of the defense attorneys.

All my opinion.

 

[sunshineray]

So just because someone says so, to an entertainment outlet, we should all believe it?

He gave them the printed out emails and messages. That's what you call evidence, in a court of law.

 

[m00c0w]

RSBBM
And for me, the fact that it is not normal makes it extremely suspect in my mind. Why would someone confess 61 times? Totally unnecessary. Call your attorney, confess and tell them you want to plead guilty. The fact that he was not able to do this, either because he was in psychosis or they wouldn’t let him raises a LOT of questions in my mind. JMO

He may have done this and they convinced him otherwise. A lack of guilty plea doesn’t mean he didn’t try to plea guilty and was swayed away from it. And the defense swaying him away from it isn’t necessarily wrong if they actually believe they have a shot at getting some things suppressed and winning the case. I don’t think either side can make any sort of assessment over what really happened without RA coming out and making a public statement. Which probably won’t happen.

All my opinion.

 

[MiniMoo]

It’s a problem alright! And I’m curious to see how they will navigate around and through these. I wonder if they will give each juror a chart that shows when the statements were made, to whom, and whether he’d had disclosure yet or not, medications etc etc etc….

What the DT needs to do is create reasonable doubt with something that is believable.

Unfortunately, this Odinist theory isn't quite it for me.

They also need to try and get RA out of this window of time the State has put him in for those murders which seems to be between 2:19 pm and just before 3:49 pm.

If they can prove the murders took place at a different time...those confessions won't matter.

RA did put himself on the bridge and trail, but it doesn't mean he committed those murders.

Right now, we don't know for sure until it goes to court and evidence is presented as well as witnesses.

I know for myself that I need to see more.

What the DT could use:

a: Libby's cell phone turning on at 4:33 am is actually an opportunity for the DT as it was when it connected to the Tower, but Im not sure how the DT will be able to prove it was definitely turned on by someone and not by itself.

b: The Searchers that claimed they saw nothing in the exact location the girls were found - could be something to explore. They just need one or two solid witnesses to come forward about not seeing anything there at that exact same spot anytime between 4 pm and when the girls were found and those confessions won't mean a thing.

With the cell phone though I don't think anyone turned it on (could be wrong) and as for the Searchers - how clear would anything have been once it was dark in an area with lots of trees and what have you. But it doesn't mean that that area was missed especially when there were a lot of searchers involved.

All the DT has to do is create reasonable doubt and I'm sure they will try their hardest to achieve it.

 

[susiQ]

Cell phone stopped tracing steps and all movement a mere 18 minutes after the girls were kidnapped off the bridge. Which co-incides with when authorities believe the deaths occured.

What's RA's alibi for that time period? Because the same alibi time period will have to apply to any/all 'other potential perps'.

Perhaps it has nothing to do with the deaths and more to do with the killer or “helper” taking LG’s phone from her and powering it off??