Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[photographer4]

Well if his defense team had listened to their client it probably wouldn't have been so many times. If they thought something amiss about the number of times racking up, why didn't they have Ricky evaluated, I wonder? Maybe they were afraid the evaluators would say he was of sound mind and then they'd have to do as he wished? MO

Or, maybe they’d say he is a whack-a-doodle who is capable of the crimes he is accused of and it might hurt their defense more than help it??? I wouldn’t have him evaluated and I’d fight any request for same by the State if I were his lawyer.

 

[sunshineray]

BH was tipped in within the first few days, by multiple people. Even one of the victim's own grandmother. The defense team did not conjure up this theory. It ALL came from the investigative materials (the ones that didn't disappear) and the Discovery.

The defense team is only guilty of not shutting up about it like the investigators and the prosecutor wanted them to, IMO.

MOO JMO IMO

And he was cleared by alibis long before RA was arrested.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Just for the record, there was no cat hair listed on the search warrant return. They did take his furry-like fiber hat, though = probably not cat hair. IMO

I wonder if either of the families had pets?

one winter gray hat with furlike fibers.
Page 12

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

That winter gray hat with fur like fibers is interesting.

I wonder, if that was worn with the brown hoodie, could that give the illusion of poofy hair?

 

[TTF14]

Well if his defense team had listened to their client it probably wouldn't have been so many times. If they thought something amiss about the number of times racking up, why didn't they have Ricky evaluated, I wonder? Maybe they were afraid the evaluators would say he was of sound mind and then they'd have to do as he wished? MO

What was Dr. Wala's role?

I'm not understanding why a "confession" automatically means RA wanted to plead guilty. Clearly he did not or he would have.

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

They aren't a court of law, and none of us saw any of the evidence. A couple of podcasters read some stuff, but by the very nature of what podcasts are, we didn't see a thing. Also, as I mentioned. these youtubers are not a court of law.

IMO MOO

Yes this is what whistleblowers face a lot when they come forward, censure. I don't believe MS has a youtube channel. MO

 

[TTF14]

What the DT needs to do is create reasonable doubt with something that is believable.

Unfortunately, this Odinist theory isn't quite it for me.

They also need to try and get RA out of this window of time the State has put him in for those murders which seems to be between 2:19 pm and just before 3:49 pm.

If they can prove the murders took place at a different time...those confessions won't matter.

RA did put himself on the bridge and trail, but it doesn't mean he committed those murders.

Right now, we don't know for sure until it goes to court and evidence is presented as well as witnesses.

I know for myself that I need to see more.

What the DT could use:

a: Libby's cell phone turning on at 4:33 am is actually an opportunity for the DT as it was when it connected to the Tower, but Im not sure how the DT will be able to prove it was definitely turned on by someone and not by itself.

b: The Searchers that claimed they saw nothing in the exact location the girls were found - could be something to explore. They just need one or two solid witnesses to come forward about not seeing anything there at that exact same spot anytime between 4 pm and when the girls were found and those confessions won't mean a thing.

With the cell phone though I don't think anyone turned it on (could be wrong) and as for the Searchers - how clear would anything have been once it was dark in an area with lots of trees and what have you. But it doesn't mean that that area was missed especially when there were a lot of searchers involved.

All the DT has to do is create reasonable doubt and I'm sure they will try their hardest to achieve it.

I hope we will hear from an expert like the person who testified in the Murdaugh trial about the phones' movements. All of the phones involved.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

Yes this is what whistleblowers face a lot when they come forward, censure. I don't believe MS has a youtube channel. MO

The Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. Its first season on restaurant related homicides, and features miniseries on the Burger Chef murders. We also cover the Delphi murders. If you're looking for thoughtful, in-depth coverage...

www.youtube.com

 

[photographer4]

Well, isn’t a time of death usually issued in a clinical setting? Medical examiners usually give estimates based on many factors and it’s usually a range instead of a specific time, unless I’m mistaken. Which is possible.

It might not be a lie to say “there is no time of death on the autopsy report”, but that also doesn’t mean there wasn’t an estimated range. And the difference in times between theories (more than 12 hours) with the bodies being found within about 8 hours of the defense’s claims also makes me skeptical of this particular claim.

It should be relatively trivial to gauge whether the girls were killed closer to 8 hours ago or 20 hours ago just based on the general appearance and characteristics (rigor would be a big one).

I don’t buy that there’s just zero idea of when they were killed based on forensics. I’m not even clear on where this statement originated because context is going to be everything surrounding how this was asked and answered. Or if it was even asked and not just said by one of the defense attorneys.

All my opinion.

Estimating the Time of Death. Rigor Mortis

The only 100% student-run international legal publication in Central and Eastern Europe

www.lawyr.it

There are issues with going simply by Rigor because of the variations in how long it takes to complete the process….

 

[sunshineray]

Or, maybe they’d say he is a whack-a-doodle who is capable of the crimes he is accused of and it might hurt their defense more than help it??? I wouldn’t have him evaluated and I’d fight any request for same by the State if I were his lawyer.

The D can't have it both ways though, which is what they're trying to do. Either he's competent and the confessions were made with a sound mind or not. They want it both ways, which in my opinion is why "POW" Ricky was never evaluated for competency when he started ramming his head into the walls and eating his own excrement. AJMO

 

[TTF14]

What if BG looks like RAbr or JM or PW, known Vinlander associates of BH? Personally, I do not see any resemblance between BG and RA. There’s no “=“ for me there. Also, if LG’s phone got powered off 18 minutes after and these poor girls did NOT die at that point in time, BH’s alibi comes into question as well. Just MOO.

EXACTLY! And without a time of death, who knows what time they were killed.

IMO MOO

 

[CCJD]

Yes this is what whistleblowers face a lot when they come forward, censure. I don't believe MS has a youtube channel. MO

bbm

The Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. Its first season on restaurant related homicides, and features miniseries on the Burger Chef murders. We also cover the Delphi murders. If you're looking for thoughtful, in-depth coverage...

www.youtube.com

 

[photographer4]

He gave them the printed out emails and messages. That's what you call evidence, in a court of law.

Who typed them out / authored them? That’s my first question in a court of law, should it ever make it that far, which it hasn’t yet. Some evidence that the accused authored and sent the texts / emails in question… MOOO.

 

[sunshineray]

The Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. Its first season on restaurant related homicides, and features miniseries on the Burger Chef murders. We also cover the Delphi murders. If you're looking for thoughtful, in-depth coverage...

www.youtube.com

Oh ok so they're part of the the crackpots? I disagree.

 

[sunshineray]

Who typed them out / authored them? That’s my first question in a court of law, should it ever make it that far, which it hasn’t yet. Some evidence that the accused authored and sent the texts / emails in question… MOOO.

He did it was his account. He talks about it in the link

 

[Yemelyan]

After finding out about the lack of actual educational requirements to be a medical examiner (2011: https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles/167568.pdf) I’d really like to know WHO investigated this, and what (if any) their qualifications were? I wonder if by 2017 there was a standard practice? Standard rules about education requirements etc? I don’t think there was given that in 2024: Indiana Coroner/Medical Examiner Laws it seems only a 40 hour training course is required….

I mean this in a friendly way - don't get too outraged about coroners. Indiana has a coroner system, which means that each county has an elected official called a coroner who completes a "death investigation," but this is more of an administrative role than anything resembling an investigation as a member of the public would think of it. The coroner could be a doctor but often is a nurse or even a funeral home director if the county is rural. The coroner administratively certifies whether a death was a homicide, suicide, natural causes etc but that's not just one person's decision; if there is any thought that the death is unnnatural, LE would contribute to that. And if it's decided that an autopsy is to be performed (a decision also made in conjunction with LE), that's still done by a certified forensic pathologist who has undergone years of training and board testing. Marion County, Indiana has a nice website that explains this pretty well: indy.gov

In the Delphi case, the coroner in the county at that time was a person who was pretty young/new in position but IMO his job mainly was just to certify the death certificates and probably arrange for the bodies to be transported to autopsy. This was cited in a recent previous thread, but the autopsies of the Delphi victims were performed by a forensic pathologist named Dr. Roland Kohr who was stationed in Terre Haute.

 

[TTF14]

The D can't have it both ways though, which is what they're trying to do. Either he competent and the confessions were made with a sound mind or not. They want it both ways, which in my opinion is why "POW" Ricky was never evaluated for competency when he he started ramming his head into the walls and eating his own excrement. AJMO

This is quite a stretch. He was temporarily in some kind of psychosis from his psychological torture, in my opinion. That doesn't mean he is incompetent now.


IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

I mean this in a friendly way - don't get too outraged about coroners. Indiana has a coroner system, which means that each county has an elected official called a coroner who completes a "death investigation," but this is more of an administrative role than anything resembling an investigation as a member of the public would think of it. The coroner could be a doctor but often is a nurse or even a funeral home director if the county is rural. The coroner administratively certifies whether a death was a homicide, suicide, natural causes etc but that's not just one person's decision; if there is any thought that the death is unnnatural, LE would contribute to that. And if it's decided that an autopsy is to be performed (a decision also made in conjunction with LE), that's still done by a certified forensic pathologist who has undergone years of training and board testing. Marion County, Indiana has a nice website that explains this pretty well: indy.gov

In the Delphi case, the coroner in the county at that time was a person who was pretty young/new in position but IMO his job mainly was just to certify the death certificates and probably arrange for the bodies to be transported to autopsy. This was cited in a recent previous thread, but the autopsies of the Delphi victims were performed by a forensic pathologist named Dr. Roland Kohr who was stationed in Terre Haute.

Do you know when a body temp is usually taken in a suspicious death/murder? It seems to me it would be important to do that right away, at the scene. Is this not a normal function/role of the coroner?

 

[sunshineray]

This is quite a stretch. He was temporarily in some kind of psychosis from his psychological torture, in my opinion. That doesn't mean he is incompetent now.


IMO MOO

Quite a stench indeed, brought on, IMO, my the ignoring of his wishes to plead guilty, to come clean, to save his soul. AJMO

 

[susiQ]

Oh ok so they're part of the the crackpots? I disagree.

I wouldn’t exactly classify Lawyer Lee or Defence Diaries or Lawyer You Know, as crackpots. Not by a long shot. I’d like to know what kind of law KG actually practiced and if it wasn’t Criminal Law, I wouldn’t put too much faith in what he has to say. JMHO

 

[TTF14]

Not quite. They need to also be able to explain away BG, as BG is on video (allegedly) with a gun kidnapping the girls at a very specific time.

So far the defense’s theory about that seems to be something along the lines of “Well, BG looks like BH so BH should be a suspect but also the murders actually happened at 4:33am the next day because BH has an alibi for when BG kidnapped the girls.”

Not exactly convincing.

All my opinion.

The State has to first prove "BG" is even RA, and I think that's going to be a tough hill to climb since it looks nothing like him, IMO.

The defense team's stance about BH is way deeper than "BH looks like BG." They haven't even asserted that from what I can recall. We recently learned several people who called tips in thought that, but the defense team has never said that "BH is 'BG' because he looks more like 'BG" than RA does."

JMO