Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[katydid23]

What was Dr. Wala's role?

I'm not understanding why a "confession" automatically means RA wanted to plead guilty. Clearly he did not or he would have.

IMO MOO

Supposedly one of the confessions was made in a letter he wrote to the warden, and the other was made to his prison psychiatrist. The one to the warden, if found to be true, makes me believe he wanted to confess and plead Guilty. JMO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

The difference is, the homicide investigators have met the legal criteria necessary in order to charge him with a double murder and be held without bond. The same cannot be said for the other 5 or 6 people being named by the defense as the 'real' killers.

IMO, they were wrong, so my opinion stands even though I respect yours.

 

[katydid23]

Here's the timeline for "Ricky's" meds. I sure hope there was some psych evaluation before they gave him involuntary injections of psychotropic medication.
(SNIP)
March 23, 2023: Allen was depressed and withdrawn and said he “was not straight in the head."
April 4, 2023: Allen suffered from insomnia, hopelessness, was suicidal, and stated “death would bring relief to him."
April 13, 2023: Allen was exhibiting “bizarre” behavior, including consuming his own feces, and was suffering from a “grave disability.” The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
April 21, 2023: Allen’s thoughts were disjointed and he was saying “strange things.” Wala discussed that he might be considered incompetent to stand trial.
May 3, 2023: Allen said he wanted to confess details of the crime.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
May 23, 2023: Allen diagnosed as suffering from stress-induced psychosis.
June 8, 2023: Allen’s depression “at its peak,” noted trembling, knees buckling.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
Late June, 2023: Allen’s mental health improving.
October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.
Allen’s defense team claims the confessions fall within the timeframe of Allen’s severe psychosis diagnosed by prison psychologists.

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

I am not sure that timeline above is correct.


(The detective did not elaborate with additional details.) Harshman also testified that the confessions started in March 2023 after Allen started reading a bible in his prison cell and began proclaiming that he had “found God.”Aug 1, 2024

Indiana State Police investigator says Richard Allen ... - 21Alive​

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Would love to stay and debate but pain meds are saying NOPE. Have a good night/morning E1 and play nice.

 

[katydid23]

Thank you for taking the time to type all that out, but it doesn't answer my question. "Confessing" while mentally compromised is not the same thing as wanting to plead guilty. The implication is that his attorneys are not letting him plead guilty, yet he's no longer in this psychosis (presumably) and spent 3 days in front of the judge. He doesn't seem like a man who wants to plead guilty.

IMO MOO

Yes, but a lot has changed since his many confessions fell on deaf ears. When he began confessing he was begging his wife and mother for forgiveness and asking them if they still love him. Apparently the answer was NO, shut up, we don't accept that....

So of course he is no longer confessing his sins. He got the answer he didn't want to hear. They will shut him out if he tells the truth. They want him to go to trial and be found not guilty. So he is going along with that, imo.

 

[katydid23]

If it was powered off at 18 mins then it was surely turned back on in the wee hours around 4:33am, no? Moooo

Who says it was 'powered off' at 18 minutes?

 

[katydid23]

I also don't see any resemblance between RA and BG.

I do. Their bodies are exactly the same. Same short legs and big rounded shoulders. I can't see enough of BG's face to say they look exactly same but I cannot rule him out.

 

[katydid23]

He was competent til he wasn’t and again and again. Ever met a schizophrenic who’s ok on their meds then they come off then and they’re not ok again? Vicious cycle for so many who suffer from it! Not asserting RA has schizophrenia but suggesting that one can actually be ok and then no in a cycle (without or without meds).

Right, and RA had mental health issues before he was ever incarcerated. He was hospitalised in 2019 for mental help.

So maybe he had mental health issues on the eve of Valentine's Day of 2017 too? His daughter had moved out, his wife was out of town for family emergency. Maybe he had a breakdown?

 

[katydid23]

What about the times he said he was innocent?
Should his family and attys just ignore those?

I think a murder suspect that eventually confesses, ALWAYS starts out denying guilt. So I wouldn't ignore it but I wouldn't say it meant he was innocent either. JMO

 

[katydid23]

I guess? I didn't say I thought her phone battery died. I think the phone was powered off at some point, and then powered back on by a human being.

IMO MOO

But you don't know any of that for sure. It might have been powered off and on, but then again, it might not have. None of us can know that until the trial testimony. IMO

 

[katydid23]

But that is @FrostedGlass ‘s point. There isn’t a witness. How can one prove an alibi if there is NO witness. He was home alone. KA at work. Maybe he didn’t have the phone he had in 2017 in 2022? Are there any phone records available? If not, they cannot prove his alibi. The question is, can the P disprove what RA has said, that he returned home after leaving the trails at 1:30 pm. Can the P put him at the trails during the alleged time of the murders? JMO

I guess that's what their witnesses will be doing. And his own initial testimony.

 

[katydid23]

Could have been part of staging the scene/murder. The killer(s) wanted evidence on there to be found?

IMO MOO theory

Oh, so they wanted the BG video to be found?

 

[katydid23]

I don’t think the killer “suddenly remembered” LG had a phone. Possibly he did not realize she got any video? After the 18 minutes of movement post video, he took it from her and shut it down, never knowing that she captured a video of him, or an accomplice. I definitely do not believe he didn’t know she had one and therefore there was no overlooking it. The killer was likely well aware that these kids don’t go anywhere without their phone. JMHO

Why wouldn't he destroy it or throw it in the creek? Why leave it right there, since he had no idea if she had recorded anything, since it was still on. And if so, why come and turn it back on at 4:30 am?

 

[katydid23]

My thoughts as well. I believe this murderer is a lot more cunning than most give him credit for. I believe there are accomplices, and that the one who orchestrated this may not have been on the bridge when they were taken DTH to wherever. It seems likely Libby died first with a horrific wound. Bled out very quickly. I wonder how long Abby lived thereafter. It has been said, her death came slowly. Sorry I don’t have a link, so MOO.

OK, so Libby died horrifically as she bled out with that gaping wound. Doesn't that prove she was killed where she was found? That's where all her blood was found.

So when did that murder happen? Right after BG took them down the hill, or sometime later?

 

[katydid23]

If the defense can’t get RA off the bridge(which they can’t), they have to evoke time travel and change the timeline. That can’t be done either.

They're working on it....lol

 

[mrjitty]

Yep.
IC 35-36-4
Chapter 4. Notice of Alibi Defense

2023 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 36. Pretrial Notices, Motions, and Procedures :: Chapter 4. Notice of Alibi Defense

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

thanks for covering me on this STG

so i guess this hasn’t happened?

 

[mrjitty]

Not every phone, but a lot of phones require a pin or a password to activate the sim once they have been powered off.

Do we know if Libby's phone had a password? Because depending on how it's set up it wouldn't have been receiving messages if the password wasn't put in.

i didn’t think of this. what a great point.

 

[snarast]

OK, so Libby died horrifically as she bled out with that gaping wound. Doesn't that prove she was killed where she was found? That's where all her blood was found.

So when did that murder happen? Right after BG took them down the hill, or sometime later?

Kind of hard to get past the search team and kill the girls right next by at 0430?

Seems unlikely.

 

[mrjitty]

yesterday in my rural office using mobile internet a message arrived and with it messages from hours before. i’d been in the office all morning. my phone was on the whole time. i guess many people who’ve spent time in areas of weak signal have experienced this.

 

[MiniMoo]

Didn't she also say on the stand, during the hearings, that she thought a few times that RA was faking his symptoms?

He ended up being medicated as well so he can't have been making it up each and every time.