Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[FrostedGlass]

I don't have any opinion on what the rope was used for. However, it apparently wasn't just a little hunk of junk. I do not think RL was tying any of his animals to a tree down by the creek with a piece of yellow rope.

List of Exhibits Included in Franks Hearing Memorandum.pdf

drive.google.com

28. Confidential - Photo yellow rope tied to tree

 

[FrostedGlass]

I don't know the forensics involved in terms of powder used in boxed ammunition, but I bet someone does

Is that a hint that you have some knowledge? I so hope you're right.
Ideally, it's one of the many, many pieces of evidence the prosecution is holding close to his vest.
I'm waiting for solid evidence with bated breath.

 

[sunshineray]

I don't have any opinion on what the rope was used for. However, it apparently wasn't just a little hunk of junk. I do not think RL was tying any of his animals to a tree down by the creek with a piece of yellow rope.

List of Exhibits Included in Franks Hearing Memorandum.pdf

drive.google.com

28. Confidential - Photo yellow rope tied to tree

If the rope was tied to a tree on his property, in the woods, I can certainly think it coild very well have been for his horses. Ride it around and down towards the creek, hitch it up so you can do some fishing and then ride it back up the hill to the barn. Sounds like a nice afternoon for person and horse. I'm sure LE asked him about it too. It was after all his property. MO

 

[snarast]

I guess it’s possible someone in the search effort messed with the phone early on the 14th as they removed some of the sticks to make the girls visible. But that would be so brazen…and complicated. About as far from Occam’s overused razor as you can get.

 

[iamshadow21]

I guess it’s possible someone in the search effort messed with the phone early on the 14th as they removed some of the sticks to make the girls visible. But that would be so brazen…and complicated. About as far from Occam’s overused razor as you can get.

If I recall correctly, the searchers who found the girls did not touch them. It was clear they were deceased, they called it in, and stayed back.

Unless what you're saying is that a searcher was the killer and went and did something with the bodies under the pretense of searching. I think that's probably unlikely. I would expect the searchers to as a minimum be paired off.

MOO

 

[TTF14]

If the rope was tied to a tree on his property, in the woods, I can certainly think it coild very well have been for his horses. Ride it around and down towards the creek, hitch it up so you can do some fishing and then ride it back up the hill to the barn. Sounds like a nice afternoon for person and horse. I'm sure LE asked him about it too. It was after all his property. MO

He would have a specific lead rope for this type of thing. I would imagine they'd be able to tell immediately if it was a lead rope or some other kind of rope.
IMO

 

[snarast]

If I recall correctly, the searchers who found the girls did not touch them. It was clear they were deceased, they called it in, and stayed back.

Unless what you're saying is that a searcher was the killer and went and did something with the bodies under the pretense of searching. I think that's probably unlikely. I would expect the searchers to as a minimum be paired off.

MOO

Yes I meant a classic Agatha Christie scenario. I agree it’s exceedingly unlikely and really risky.

 

[statt#1]

Is that a hint that you have some knowledge? I so hope you're right.
Ideally, it's one of the many, many pieces of evidence the prosecution is holding close to his vest.
I'm waiting for solid evidence with bated breath.

Well, I'll say this. The record did show investigators snagged a round from RA's home, I'd wager they may even have gotten a box or two of Winchester, Federal, Sellier Bellot, or whatsoever brand .40 cal. this guy had, and it's my estimation they'd pull the bullets from the cartridges, and compare the "chemistry of gunpowder", to determine the amounts of say, sulfur, charcoal, potassium nitrate and such, to include the quantities thereof, along with an exact enumeration of grains extant....just sayin'.

Seein' how I typed this, it's surely, my opinion only

 

[FrostedGlass]

If the rope was tied to a tree on his property, in the woods, I can certainly think it coild very well have been for his horses. Ride it around and down towards the creek, hitch it up so you can do some fishing and then ride it back up the hill to the barn. Sounds like a nice afternoon for person and horse. I'm sure LE asked him about it too. It was after all his property. MO

It it was tied high up on the tree, it likely was not for the horses. If he did have a rope for tying his horse to something, it likely would have had a heavy snap on one end.

We have no indication that he did anything down by the creek, like fishing. My opinion is they were his pets. It's just not logical to me that he would go through the work of grooming, saddling up, bridling up just to go down to the creek.

Maybe LE asked him if it was his rope and he said "No."

 

[FrostedGlass]

Well, I'll say this. The record did show investigators snagged a round from RA's home, I'd wager they may even have gotten a box or two of Winchester, Federal, Sellier Bellot, or whatsoever brand .40 cal. this guy had, and it's my estimation they'd pull the bullets from the cartridges, and compare the "chemistry of gunpowder", to determine the amounts of say, sulfur, charcoal, potassium nitrate and such, to include the quantities thereof, along with an exact enumeration of grains extant....just sayin'.

Seein' how I typed this, it's surely, my opinion only

They do have his ammo but we've seen no lab reports on it as far as its chemistry. I would think that would have been included on the SW return? Maybe it's another one of those sealed docs?

 

[FromGermany1]

Only chance is if they were alive to walk there under duress from Logan’s property. Still seems very unlikely considering the ongoing search.

IF the girls were hidden (going there alive) and one of the perp crew played a searcher in between the night/search process, I can imagine. MOO

 

[sunshineray]

It it was tied high up on the tree, it likely was not for the horses. If he did have a rope for tying his horse to something, it likely would have had a heavy snap on one end.

We have no indication that he did anything down by the creek, like fishing. My opinion is they were his pets. It's just not logical to me that he would go through the work of grooming, saddling up, bridling up just to go down to the creek.

Maybe LE asked him if it was his rope and he said "No."

I'd think he regularly exercised his animals for their health and his enjoyment, a ride around on his property, JMO. From my experience, not all horses need to be snapped into a tether. Some just need to be loosely tied to stay where you want them. Some even learn to be ground tethered.

 

[MiniMoo]

Probably wasn't done.

IMO MOO

I don't think it was turned on either by someone, but will have to wait and see what the DT can bring to the table if they decide to take the cell phone route.

The DT needs the best cell phone and data expert in the entire world.

 

[sunshineray]

Question for the "RA is already guilty" crowd: Is it still your theory that RA and the girls crossed the creek?

Yes almost certainly. Wasn't one of Libby's shoes found on the down the hill side of the creek?

 

[justtrish]

I'm pages behind again but about this sketch issue, just occurred to me that

1. At the time of the newborn investigation, they were trying to identify EVERYONE in the area, it was only after a great deal of investigating that they could begin to pair people and telephones and who was where seeing whom.

Let's say 10 iindividuals reported seeing 3 girls, is that 30 girls or just the same 3? Along those lines, LE had the descriptions from the juveniles -- either they saw 1 man, perceived slightly differently -- or it was 2 men. But if they were all together at the time, it's notable than none saw two men so LE likely reached the obvious conclusion -- they all saw the same one man, wearing dark clothing, seemingly not too friendly. In time, RA would not be ELIMINATED from that description. At the time, that man would be a fair match to one Libby videoed whose trajectory was in step.

Meanwhile BB reported seeing a man. And apparently she couldn't really give an age. Settled on a wide range. We won't know unless she clarifies under oath. Poofy hair might have led her to think not 50, 60, older. Just being on the platform may have entered her calculus. Young enough to dare to cross, maybe not something an older person, in her mind, would do.

Amd when LE first encountered the two descriptions, the three way, in general accord one and the one BB gave, they might have expected that two be two differenr men until realizing that the OBG seen by the juveniles would have been progressing forward right in line with the OBG in Libby's video.

And that makes BB's YBG sighting a variation in description but the same man. YBG had to be OBG because of timing. No one saw a second man.

RA himself was consistent with that. He didn't see another man there.

So why the discrepancy? Between OBG and YBG?

Maybe RA is responsible for that.

Perhaps HE altered his appearance. Pulled his hood up tight. If it was fur rimmed, from her vantage, BB might not gave been able to see definition. Just shape, shade, impression. Perhaps a fur hood gave the figure a very poofy head.

If Abby and Libby first encountered RA not too far from the first platform, it seems he did or said something that was creepy to them. If Abby said, is he behind me?, it suggests she had seen him prior. It was a remarkably nice day. Would it have been WEIRD to see a grown man, on the bridge, with maybe a fur hood pulled over his head and a face cover? Half bank robber.

IMO then there was a time LE thought the juveniles saw one man and BB saw different one, and a time when data synthesized, they realized it HAD TO BE one and the same. If it were two, they'd have encountered each other, AND all of those witnesses would have seen BOTH.

There was always just one.

And RA by his own admission put himself on the bridge, after parking not-in-the-Mears-lot, after passing the juveniles, before BB, on the first platform where BB saw him once she caught up, and as Abby and Libby were coming close to the 1st-platform side of the bridge.

That's why he can't get off the bridge. He got boxed in.

By people who had no reason to lie.

The only one who gave LE false information was the one man who CAN'T BE EXCLUDED from their descriptions. The one who would have had to encounter Abby and Libby --

But said he didn't.

He's the guy.

JMO

This puts into words so perfectly exactly how I see it.

 

[TTF14]

Yes almost certainly. Wasn't one of Libby's shoes found on the down the hill side of the creek?

Yes. I'm just wondering why in all of the information that's been gleaned in recent motions, hearings, etc. there is no mention at all of the girls being wet.

I personally don't believe they crossed the creek.

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Yes. I'm just wondering why in all of the information that's been gleaned in recent motions, hearings, etc. there is no mention at all of the girls being wet.

I personally don't believe they crossed the creek.

IMO MOO

From my understanding the creek in the area near the crime scene wasn't very high , there was a sandbar right around there. Some of their clothes were found in the creek, I'm not sure which ones, a shirt , sock and shoe? If BG ordered them down the hill right where Libby filmed him approaching them (as LE has said he did) how else do you think they wound up on the other side at the crime scene, after going down the hill?

 

[photographer4]

Is there anything unique about an IPhone 6 model.

Only an old pair of leather gloves is likely (slight possibility) to leave a trace behind not a new pair - if the gloves were leather.

“If the glove doesn’t fit, you must acquit”….. LMAO (OJ Trial).

I don’t know anything about gloves really…. I wonder if we’re about to find out more (eg: if gloves were involved)

 

[susiQ]

Yes. I'm just wondering why in all of the information that's been gleaned in recent motions, hearings, etc. there is no mention at all of the girls being wet.

I personally don't believe they crossed the creek.

IMO MOO

I have my doubts too. So if they went DTH at the far end of the bridge, how did they get to the other side? We know that LE stated that the social media reenactments done by podcasters were “wrong.” (No link handy, so MOO)
This is what comes into my mind when I think about everything surrounding this case:
“It's a mystery, wrapped in a riddle, inside an enigma.”

 

[TTF14]

From my understanding the creek in the area near the crime scene wasn't very high , there was a sandbar right around there. Some of their clothes were found in the creek, I'm not sure which ones, a shirt , sock and shoe? If BG ordered them down the hill right where Libby filmed him approaching them (as LE has said he did) how else do you think they wound up on the other side at the crime scene, after going down the hill?

My opinion is that the creek was actually quite deep that day because of the runoff from melting snow, but consider that just my opinion until I can find a link with the historical data.

I don't know how they ended up where they ended up. But I don't think they crossed the creek. And I don't think Abby's (Libby's) clothes were wet.

IMO MOO

ETA: This link showed that the water would have been about 3.5 feet deep that day. Can't imagine how cold, too. I don't know how to check, or what the word/calculation is, for how swift the current would have been moving at that depth.

USGS Current Conditions for USGS 03329700 DEER CREEK NEAR DELPHI, IN