Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[statt#1]

Major Patrick Cicero. He was likely chosen by the Prosecution because he has extensive experience in his field.

"Major Cicero led or assisted countless high-profile felony investigations throughout La Porte County and across northern Indiana. He specialized in the management of crime scene investigations and has been recognized as a forensic expert related to bloodstain pattern analysis. Major Cicero is currently an adjunct instructor with the National Forensic Academy at the University of Tennessee where he teaches investigative approaches and the collection of entomological evidence."

Sheriff's Office - LPC - La Porte County, Indiana

laporteco.in.gov

https://www.facebook.com/LaPorteCountySheriffsOffice/posts/332380665667064

 

[tlcya]

Gull says their motion to dismiss from Allen's defense team was "denied as unsupported by the law and the evidence."
[snip]
She also said police testified that their investigation cleared the other man, and evidence presented by the defense did not negate the state’s evidence.
[snip]
Gull still has several other important issues to decide — including whether the defense team will be able to tell the jury about their theory that someone other than Allen committed the murders.

Allen and his attorneys will be back in court for a status hearing Friday, Aug. 23.
Special judge refuses to dismiss Delphi murders case against Richard Allen

I am curious to see if JG rules on the SODDI defense on the 23rd, and if so what her ruling will be. I don't think she can rightfully rule they cannot present any alternate theory of the crime with a SODDI suggestion.

But do wonder if she will allow them to outright name others who've been cleared by LE as those alternate killers or tell them they must discuss these alternate SODDI's in general terms without naming them. I honestly don't know what to expect.

I do know if I was EE, BH or any one of the other individuals they have suggested were involve in their many versions of the Frank's Motion, I would be seriously PO'd at the DT for dragging me publicly through the mud for the past year.

 

[Vern]

She's the only one who returned Baldwin's call?? I mean she didn't come on board until April this year? Just a little levity folks. Her testimony didn't hold a lot of credibility for me.

<snipped & BBM>

The prosecutor also pointed out that Perlmutter went on CourtTV and said that the killing was a ritual killing last November. But she testified today she did not see any evidence or any crime scene photos until this April. The prosecutor pointed out she made the determination that Libby and Abby were ritualistically killed on CourtTV before seeing evidence in the case.

JMO

MSN

Absolutely,

IMO, they are going to 'rip this supposed-expert to shreds'. She had already decided it was a Ritualistic Odinist Sacrificial killing, by her own testimony, before she had actually seen the evidence.

Her personal pre-determination simply allowed her confirmation bias to see what she wanted to see when she saw the actual evidence.

For me, it's quite like staring at the clouds passing by my place now to see what I want to see; pretty certain I'll be able to find an "F" that more resembles an "F" than that photo does.

 

[Megnut]

If the Defense doesn't meet the legal threshold for a third party defense, it won't come in.

If previous trials are any indication, IMO this Defense WILL try to get names and theories before the jury. Opening statement, cross examination -- even if the State objects and the judge sustains it (which the Defense would know and expect), the jury will have heard it. Planting seeds of doubt...

If the Defense has no legitimate third party defense, there will be no need for an expert on Odinism nor any foundation IMO for calling the tree blood an F or an L.

The jury won't even know about all that noise.

The State's expert will describe and explain how he thinks it came to, in conjunction with the other blood evidence.

The Defense ask him few or might ask him may questions to try to weaken his testimony with tangents and supposes and contempt in the hopes of leaving A juror with any kind of doubt.

There are posts on this thread questioning the strength of the State's case (I happen to think it's strong and as yet unrevealed), but for me, the real bar is not about the State having a solid case; it's that the Defense IMO that has no case.

If he was truly somewhere else, he'd have an alibi. Even if it were somehow beyond the realm to prove. The Defense would be screaming, he didn't do it, he wasn't there. He was [insert something, somewhere], just don't have any real or digital witnesses.. but you can believe us because we're very believable.

I think the State's witnesses will be naturally believable. And all the individual pieces are put together. the picture will tell the whole devastating story.

JMO

JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

Major Delphi Murders update as cops investigate 'crime scene photos leak'

me either. just a faint smear of blood. It's a HUGE stretch for someone to say that is a purposeful anything. JMO

THAT? That is what they've been claiming is not only an intentional mark, but an intentional mark that is a specific symbol that tells them it's a ritual sacrifice???

*screams into the void*

If that is intentional, then every dirty smudge on the paint of my yellow hallway that I never get around to cleaning off is spelling out the sonnets of Shakespeare.

That is a transfer mark from someone or something bloody pressing or rubbing against the bark. Nothing more, nothing less.

Rune, my foot.

MOO

 

[tlcya]

THAT? That is what they've been claiming is not only an intentional mark, but an intentional mark that is a specific symbol that tells them it's a ritual sacrifice???

*screams into the void*

If that is intentional, then every dirty smudge on the paint of my yellow hallway that I never get around to cleaning off is spelling out the sonnets of Shakespeare.

That is a transfer mark from someone or something bloody pressing or rubbing against the bark. Nothing more, nothing less.

Rune, my foot.

MOO

yes, THAT is what all the hubbub is about. The fabled murder rune. pffft

 

[iamshadow21]

yes, THAT is what all the hubbub is about. The fabled murder rune. pffft

If I had something I didn't feel guilty about smashing and it wasn't five thirty in the morning I'd go outside right now and heave it as hard as I could against the side of my house.

I am just so freaking angry.

These girls died horribly, and for some reason, that wasn't enough. We had the Franks, we had the photo leaks, we had the Due Process gang, and on and on.

How many times do their families have to be retraumatised?

And for what?

As I have been saying since that first Franks, I fail to see how it helps their client. Instead of them beavering away at assembling a defense strategy for trial, they're doing *waves hand wildly* all this. It's obscene.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Very difficult to prove a negative. I guess it's the right call, but I still personally believe it wasn't all accidental. Always will. Just no way to prove it, unfortunately.

IMO MOO

I have much more faith in Law Enforcement than you do. It makes no sense to me that they would have intentionally wiped out taped interviews like you're implying...to what end would that have served them in trying to find a killer of children? Makes absolutely no sense to me. It was an unfortunate occurence that they themselves I'm sure were upset about, but not done intentionally. Again what reasoning would they have had?

 

[sunshineray]

see if this works

Adobe Acrobat

Emails regarding fees being charged for transcripts and delivery method.

WOW! No wonder there's been no transcripts posted anywhere. That crazy gouging of price!

 

[sunshineray]

Gull says their motion to dismiss from Allen's defense team was "denied as unsupported by the law and the evidence."
[snip]
She also said police testified that their investigation cleared the other man, and evidence presented by the defense did not negate the state’s evidence.
[snip]
Gull still has several other important issues to decide — including whether the defense team will be able to tell the jury about their theory that someone other than Allen committed the murders.

Allen and his attorneys will be back in court for a status hearing Friday, Aug. 23.
Special judge refuses to dismiss Delphi murders case against Richard Allen

I am curious to see if JG rules on the SODDI defense on the 23rd, and if so what her ruling will be. I don't think she can rightfully rule they cannot present any alternate theory of the crime with a SODDI suggestion.

But do wonder if she will allow them to outright name others who've been cleared by LE as those alternate killers or tell them they must discuss these alternate SODDI's in general terms without naming them. I honestly don't know what to expect.

I do know if I was EE, BH or any one of the other individuals they have suggested were involve in their many versions of the Frank's Motion, I would be seriously PO'd at the DT for dragging me publicly through the mud for the past year.

My opinion, they better pick other SODDIs

 

[Ravenmoon]

THAT? That is what they've been claiming is not only an intentional mark, but an intentional mark that is a specific symbol that tells them it's a ritual sacrifice???

*screams into the void*

If that is intentional, then every dirty smudge on the paint of my yellow hallway that I never get around to cleaning off is spelling out the sonnets of Shakespeare.

That is a transfer mark from someone or something bloody pressing or rubbing against the bark. Nothing more, nothing less.

Rune, my foot.

MOO

I am in total agreement with you.
It is so frustrating.
What I see:
I picture a terrified, dying girl with her forearm against the tree ,the side of her left hand, ( the way that someone's hand would act as a visor for the Sun) pinky finger is the top marking.

Having Cicero explain this makes it very clear to me. I can't see it being anything else.

JMO

 

[photographer4]

THAT? That is what they've been claiming is not only an intentional mark, but an intentional mark that is a specific symbol that tells them it's a ritual sacrifice???

*screams into the void*

If that is intentional, then every dirty smudge on the paint of my yellow hallway that I never get around to cleaning off is spelling out the sonnets of Shakespeare.

That is a transfer mark from someone or something bloody pressing or rubbing against the bark. Nothing more, nothing less.

Rune, my foot.

MOO

All the D needs is for a juror or two to refuse to believe that this is the last mark made by a dying kid. I for one, do not believe this was an unintentional mark made by anyone. I see this as an intentional marking, and I do believe it resembles the shape of an F. The long vertical stem is intersected by a horizontal line and there is a ball shape where they intersect. THis makes me believe this was intentional. MOOO. Going to be very interesting to see what the D does with this marking if anything.

 

[Ravenmoon]

My opinion, they better pick other SODDIs

If he doesn't strike a plea deal, I am waiting for KK to be next.

JMO

 

[justtrish]

yes, THAT is what all the hubbub is about. The fabled murder rune. pffft

If we go back to why we have even talked about this for all these months.. it was in a defense Frank's motion.

Many of us here have reservations about these Franks memos and the interpretations contained in them and when anyone suggests things could be not true in them, we are met with lawyers can't lie. Well maybe not, but I'd say this gets as close to lying as one can get all in the name of getting something they want for their client. Just because it isn't an outright lie doesn't mean it's a fact. All these discussions where we have to go down these wild theories all because the defense puts this nonsense in their filings and then here we are.. round and round the merry go round.

 

[sunshineray]

Absolutely,

IMO, they are going to 'rip this supposed-expert to shreds'. She had already decided it was a Ritualistic Odinist Sacrificial killing, by her own testimony, before she had actually seen the evidence.

Her personal pre-determination simply allowed her confirmation bias to see what she wanted to see when she saw the actual evidence.

For me, it's quite like staring at the clouds passing by my place now to see what I want to see; pretty certain I'll be able to find an "F" that more resembles an "F" than that photo does.

I've seen that pic using the bark's own natural discolorations (seen by zooming in on spots not near the supposed F) as part of the F...to make it an F. MO

 

[justtrish]

I've seen that pic using the bark's own natural discolorations (seen by zooming in on spots not near the supposed F) as part of the F...to make it an F. MO

I believe if someone was intentionally putting that on the tree and they had all that blood readily available to them, then why in the world wouldn't they make it darker, make it more obvious, actually make it something instead of leaving it sorta looking like it could be 30 different things. Why even bother if you aren't going to actually do it?

 

[sunshineray]

If I had something I didn't feel guilty about smashing and it wasn't five thirty in the morning I'd go outside right now and heave it as hard as I could against the side of my house.

I am just so freaking angry.

These girls died horribly, and for some reason, that wasn't enough. We had the Franks, we had the photo leaks, we had the Due Process gang, and on and on.

How many times do their families have to be retraumatised?

And for what?

As I have been saying since that first Franks, I fail to see how it helps their client. Instead of them beavering away at assembling a defense strategy for trial, they're doing *waves hand wildly* all this. It's obscene.

MOO

And we've also had the 60+ confessions and dozens of incriminating statements.

 

[Ravenmoon]

All the D needs is for a juror or two to refuse to believe that this is the last mark made by a dying kid. I for one, do not believe this was an unintentional mark made by anyone. I see this as an intentional marking, and I do believe it resembles the shape of an F. The long vertical stem is intersected by a horizontal line and there is a ball shape where they intersect. THis makes me believe this was intentional. MOOO. Going to be very interesting to see what the D does with this marking if anything.

Would it be easy for you or any prospective jurors to disregard this as intentional if the length of Libby's forearm and the side of her hand matched that mark?


Further, if it is presented that particles of bark are present on her hand and forearm, would that help change your opinion?

I certainly hope that any person serving on the upcoming jury is not willing to REFUSE any scientific expert or any solid information that is presented.

That mindset should be disclosed before taking such an important role.


AJMO

 

[m00c0w]

All the D needs is for a juror or two to refuse to believe that this is the last mark made by a dying kid. I for one, do not believe this was an unintentional mark made by anyone. I see this as an intentional marking, and I do believe it resembles the shape of an F. The long vertical stem is intersected by a horizontal line and there is a ball shape where they intersect. THis makes me believe this was intentional. MOOO. Going to be very interesting to see what the D does with this marking if anything.

Even the defense has moved away from trying to say it’s an F shape. Their expert calls it a Laguz rune.

ᛚ

 

[iamshadow21]

Even the defense has moved away from trying to say it’s an F shape. Their expert calls it a Laguz rune.

ᛚ

Well, it doesn't look like one of those either, so I don't see what changing what runic letter they claim it looks like is going to do for them.

MOO