Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[FromGermany1]

A reminder of RA's mental illness and confession timeline:

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

A prison psychologist who met regularly with Allen testified that she also heard Allen confess to the murders. But Dr. Monica Wala said Allen’s mental health was “extremely poor, critical and deteriorating,” and that he suffered from stress-induced psychosis at the time he made his confessions.

She also testified there was “no doubt” he had serious mental illness around that time, evidenced by Allen’s attempts to “beat his head into the wall.” According to notes that Wala recorded in Allen’s medical chart:

March 23, 2023: Allen was depressed and withdrawn and said he “was not straight in the head."
April 4, 2023: Allen suffered from insomnia, hopelessness, was suicidal, and stated “death would bring relief to him."
April 13, 2023: Allen was exhibiting “bizarre” behavior, including consuming his own feces, and was suffering from a “grave disability.” The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
April 14, 2023: Mental health evaluation 10 am **** See added documentation
April 21, 2023: Allen’s thoughts were disjointed and he was saying “strange things.” Wala discussed that he might be considered incompetent to stand trial.
May 3, 2023: Allen said he wanted to confess details of the crime.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
May 23, 2023: Allen diagnosed as suffering from stress-induced psychosis.
June 8, 2023: Allen’s depression “at its peak,” noted trembling, knees buckling.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
Late June, 2023: Allen’s mental health improving.
October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.
Allen’s defense team claims the confessions fall within the timeframe of Allen’s severe psychosis diagnosed by prison psychologists.

Pg 7 States Response to Defense’s Emergency Motion to Modify Safekeeping
**** https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

Jail confessions highlight Delphi hearing

DELPHI — Indiana guidelines recommend an inmate can spend up to 30 days in restrictive housing, also known as solitary confinement, before their situation is reevaluated. Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen spent 12 months in solitary confinement during his time at Westville Correctional...

www.yahoo.com

Galipeau also testified he never documented the statements made by Allen, though he’s unsure if any of the inmates monitoring Allen’s cell did.

Wala testified Allen came to the WCF already on suicide watch, and he remained there for approximately a month.
She also added that she visited with Allen — via a crack in his door — on a daily basis during that time.

While reading, my hope is down, that we ever will learn of the girls' true fate .... He will end up in a psychiatric hospital, I think.
When he says, he is innocent, but is confessing x times, that shows also his mental constitution somehow, IMO.

 

[sunshineray]

A reminder of RA's mental illness and confession timeline:

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

A prison psychologist who met regularly with Allen testified that she also heard Allen confess to the murders. But Dr. Monica Wala said Allen’s mental health was “extremely poor, critical and deteriorating,” and that he suffered from stress-induced psychosis at the time he made his confessions.

She also testified there was “no doubt” he had serious mental illness around that time, evidenced by Allen’s attempts to “beat his head into the wall.” According to notes that Wala recorded in Allen’s medical chart:

March 23, 2023: Allen was depressed and withdrawn and said he “was not straight in the head."
April 4, 2023: Allen suffered from insomnia, hopelessness, was suicidal, and stated “death would bring relief to him."
April 13, 2023: Allen was exhibiting “bizarre” behavior, including consuming his own feces, and was suffering from a “grave disability.” The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
April 14, 2023: Mental health evaluation 10 am **** See added documentation
April 21, 2023: Allen’s thoughts were disjointed and he was saying “strange things.” Wala discussed that he might be considered incompetent to stand trial.
May 3, 2023: Allen said he wanted to confess details of the crime.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
May 23, 2023: Allen diagnosed as suffering from stress-induced psychosis.
June 8, 2023: Allen’s depression “at its peak,” noted trembling, knees buckling.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
Late June, 2023: Allen’s mental health improving.
October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.
Allen’s defense team claims the confessions fall within the timeframe of Allen’s severe psychosis diagnosed by prison psychologists.

Pg 7 States Response to Defense’s Emergency Motion to Modify Safekeeping
**** https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

Jail confessions highlight Delphi hearing

DELPHI — Indiana guidelines recommend an inmate can spend up to 30 days in restrictive housing, also known as solitary confinement, before their situation is reevaluated. Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen spent 12 months in solitary confinement during his time at Westville Correctional...

www.yahoo.com

Galipeau also testified he never documented the statements made by Allen, though he’s unsure if any of the inmates monitoring Allen’s cell did.

Wala testified Allen came to the WCF already on suicide watch, and he remained there for approximately a month.
She also added that she visited with Allen — via a crack in his door — on a daily basis during that time.

You missed the part where Dr. Wala mentioned believing RA wasn't being truthful about his poor mental health. That's in there somewhere too.

 

[FrostedGlass]

While reading, my hope is down, that we ever will learn of the girls' true fate .... He will end up in a psychiatric hospital, I think.
When he says, he is innocent, but is confessing x times, that shows also his mental constitution somehow, IMO.

I, too, doubt that we will learn their true fate. Maybe, somewhere within his confessions, there is something that will click.

I think they made a major error when they incarcerated him in Westville and it will come back to bite them.
MOO

 

[SouthEnd]

While reading, my hope is down, that we ever will learn of the girls' true fate .... He will end up in a psychiatric hospital, I think.
When he says, he is innocent, but is confessing x times, that shows also his mental constitution somehow, IMO.

What the MS said in a recent pod, The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings: Reflections - and the 3 pretrial episodes - was that from testimony (Dr Wala I believe?) it came out that RA was big on being in control. Thus he refused to eat, because that was the only thing he could control.

I am not a therapist, but as a person that has struggled with all sorts of MH issues, I can see how the breakdowns are connected with the depression/need for control.

If the only positive presence in his life (KA) ultimately rejected him every time he confessed, the only thing he had control over was to stop confessing.

For me, with my personal experience, everything is logical, in the way it connects, in the way the cause and effect flow through the fragmented timeline we have.

All IMO

 

[sunshineray]

A reminder of RA's mental illness and confession timeline:

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

A prison psychologist who met regularly with Allen testified that she also heard Allen confess to the murders. But Dr. Monica Wala said Allen’s mental health was “extremely poor, critical and deteriorating,” and that he suffered from stress-induced psychosis at the time he made his confessions.

She also testified there was “no doubt” he had serious mental illness around that time, evidenced by Allen’s attempts to “beat his head into the wall.” According to notes that Wala recorded in Allen’s medical chart:

March 23, 2023: Allen was depressed and withdrawn and said he “was not straight in the head."
April 4, 2023: Allen suffered from insomnia, hopelessness, was suicidal, and stated “death would bring relief to him."
April 13, 2023: Allen was exhibiting “bizarre” behavior, including consuming his own feces, and was suffering from a “grave disability.” The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
April 14, 2023: Mental health evaluation 10 am **** See added documentation
April 21, 2023: Allen’s thoughts were disjointed and he was saying “strange things.” Wala discussed that he might be considered incompetent to stand trial.
May 3, 2023: Allen said he wanted to confess details of the crime.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
May 23, 2023: Allen diagnosed as suffering from stress-induced psychosis.
June 8, 2023: Allen’s depression “at its peak,” noted trembling, knees buckling.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
Late June, 2023: Allen’s mental health improving.
October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.
Allen’s defense team claims the confessions fall within the timeframe of Allen’s severe psychosis diagnosed by prison psychologists.

Pg 7 States Response to Defense’s Emergency Motion to Modify Safekeeping
**** https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

Jail confessions highlight Delphi hearing

DELPHI — Indiana guidelines recommend an inmate can spend up to 30 days in restrictive housing, also known as solitary confinement, before their situation is reevaluated. Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen spent 12 months in solitary confinement during his time at Westville Correctional...

www.yahoo.com

Galipeau also testified he never documented the statements made by Allen, though he’s unsure if any of the inmates monitoring Allen’s cell did.

Wala testified Allen came to the WCF already on suicide watch, and he remained there for approximately a month.
She also added that she visited with Allen — via a crack in his door — on a daily basis during that time.

You missed the part where Dr. Wala mentioned believing RA wasn't being truthful about his poor mental health. That's in there somewhere too.

Maybe she saw her husband was in the middle of a mental breakdown and did what many people who love their family member would do? She's the most likely person to advocate for him when he's experiencing serious mental issues.
MOO

Except it was also mentioned by Harshman on the stand, when RA asked his family members if he would still be loved by them, if his confessing was true, there was no support given and communications actually broke down between them for a period of time. That's interesting to note. MO

 

[FromGermany1]

What the MS said in a recent pod, The Delphi Murders: Three Days of Pretrial Hearings: Reflections - and the 3 pretrial episodes - was that from testimony (Dr Wala I believe?) it came out that RA was big on being in control. Thus he refused to eat, because that was the only thing he could control.

I am not a therapist, but as a person that has struggled with all sorts of MH issues, I can see how the breakdowns are connected with the depression/need for control.

If the only positive presence in his life (KA) ultimately rejected him every time he confessed, the only thing he had control over was to stop confessing.

For me, with my personal experience, everything is logical, in the way it connects, in the way the cause and effect flow through the fragmented timeline we have.

All IMO

His mind is still working. Remains questionable perhaps, in what number of different directions his mind is active. Only MOO.

 

[sunshineray]

While reading, my hope is down, that we ever will learn of the girls' true fate .... He will end up in a psychiatric hospital, I think.
When he says, he is innocent, but is confessing x times, that shows also his mental constitution somehow, IMO.

Or it shows he wanting to confess for his mental and spiritual health but got no support from his representation or his family to do as he wished. After hearing about Harshman's testimony, it sounded to me like RA was shunned. AJMO

 

[SouthEnd]

May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.

June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.

Snipped by me, for focus.

Do we know what kind of psychotropic medication we are talking about there?

The word 'psychotropic' is powerful. But many substances, from mild anti-depressants like sertraline/fluoxetine, to nicotine (!), to clonazepam/diazepam (basically benzos) belong to that category. If someone is in manic state, breaking items and trying to hurt themselves/the guards, I understand injecting them with some kind of benzo/antipsychotic.

Now, if the proposition is that someone on benzos/antidepressants is more likely to confess? I would argue the opposite. They are most likely to become lethargic, because, sedatives, well. Cause sedation. Less likely to have the energy to, according to Dr Wala, anxiously ask for their therapist to call their family, and stay while they confess, IMO. Lithium, for example, is more likely to give you hard to understand, slurred speech than make you vulnerable to suggestions.

Again, it all depends on what type of psychotropic medication we are talking about, but IMO the most likely meds would not have been a contributing factor to the confessions. This is a list of common side effects for every psychotropic drug: https://www.hhs.texas.gov/sites/def...Psychotropic-Medications-and-Side-Effects.pdf

 

[GoBuckeyes]

MOO
We don't know if RA has walked any confessions back but it's reported that he has continued to state his innocence.
(snips)
But Allen also professed his innocence, Harshman said, even after his alleged confessions.

Jail confessions highlight Delphi hearing

DELPHI — Indiana guidelines recommend an inmate can spend up to 30 days in restrictive housing, also known as solitary confinement, before their situation is reevaluated. Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen spent 12 months in solitary confinement during his time at Westville Correctional...

www.yahoo.com

October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

Thank you for this information. What a terribly confusing case. moo

 

[steeltowngirl]

I still don't understand why he hasn't plead guilty. Has he walked back any of the confessions? If not, what gives?

A guilty plea doesn’t buy him anything. He still goes to prison for life. His defense is rolling the dice. He could still go with an insanity plea, but it’s an affirmative defense in Indiana. The burden would be on RA’s defense team to prove he was mentally ill at the time of the crime.

2023 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 41. Substantive Criminal Provisions :: Chapter 4. Standard of Proof and Bars to Prosecution :: 35-41-4-1. Standard of Proof; Insanity Defense

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

jmo

 

[FrostedGlass]

Snipped by me, for focus.

Do we know what kind of psychotropic medication we are talking about there?

The word 'psychotropic' is powerful. But many substances, from mild anti-depressants like sertraline/fluoxetine, to nicotine (!), to clonazepam/diazepam (basically benzos) belong to that category. If someone is in manic state, breaking items and trying to hurt themselves/the guards, I understand injecting them with some kind of benzo/antipsychotic.

Now, if the proposition is that someone on benzos/antidepressants is more likely to confess? I would argue the opposite. They are most likely to become lethargic, because, sedatives, well. Cause sedation. Less likely to have the energy to, according to Dr Wala, anxiously ask for their therapist to call their family, and stay while they confess, IMO. Lithium, for example, is more likely to give you hard to understand, slurred speech than make you vulnerable to suggestions.

Again, it all depends on what type of psychotropic medication we are talking about, but IMO the most likely meds would not have been a contributing factor to the confessions. This is a list of common side effects for every psychotropic drug: https://www.hhs.texas.gov/sites/def...Psychotropic-Medications-and-Side-Effects.pdf

I really appreciate you sharing your experience with mental illness. I'm sorry you and others who have had to deal with it.

What type of drug? I don't have that info at my fingertips but I believe it has been mentioned.
I think it's possible that he was given more than one type of drug so I'm not totally discounting side effects. My experience with mental health drugs is 0; but I have suffered a range of side effects from prescribed drugs that range from common to rare.

IMO, it's possible RA's mental health problems were brought on by his solitary confinement and his confessions were a result of his mental break. It's too bad his attys didn't have drug testing done on him to see what was in his system for all those months.

IMO

 

[GoBuckeyes]

A reminder of RA's mental illness and confession timeline:

Judge rules Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen to be moved to county jail

It is not yet known where Allen will be housed or when he will be moved to a new jail.

www.wthr.com

A prison psychologist who met regularly with Allen testified that she also heard Allen confess to the murders. But Dr. Monica Wala said Allen’s mental health was “extremely poor, critical and deteriorating,” and that he suffered from stress-induced psychosis at the time he made his confessions.

She also testified there was “no doubt” he had serious mental illness around that time, evidenced by Allen’s attempts to “beat his head into the wall.” According to notes that Wala recorded in Allen’s medical chart:

March 23, 2023: Allen was depressed and withdrawn and said he “was not straight in the head."
April 4, 2023: Allen suffered from insomnia, hopelessness, was suicidal, and stated “death would bring relief to him."
April 13, 2023: Allen was exhibiting “bizarre” behavior, including consuming his own feces, and was suffering from a “grave disability.” The prison psychologist ordered Allen receive an involuntary injection of psychotropic medication.
April 14, 2023: Mental health evaluation 10 am **** See added documentation
April 21, 2023: Allen’s thoughts were disjointed and he was saying “strange things.” Wala discussed that he might be considered incompetent to stand trial.
May 3, 2023: Allen said he wanted to confess details of the crime.
May 18, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
May 23, 2023: Allen diagnosed as suffering from stress-induced psychosis.
June 8, 2023: Allen’s depression “at its peak,” noted trembling, knees buckling.
June 16, 2023: Allen receives another dose of psychotropic medication.
Late June, 2023: Allen’s mental health improving.
October 2023: Allen was proclaiming his innocence.
Allen’s defense team claims the confessions fall within the timeframe of Allen’s severe psychosis diagnosed by prison psychologists.

Pg 7 States Response to Defense’s Emergency Motion to Modify Safekeeping
**** https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

Jail confessions highlight Delphi hearing

DELPHI — Indiana guidelines recommend an inmate can spend up to 30 days in restrictive housing, also known as solitary confinement, before their situation is reevaluated. Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen spent 12 months in solitary confinement during his time at Westville Correctional...

www.yahoo.com

Galipeau also testified he never documented the statements made by Allen, though he’s unsure if any of the inmates monitoring Allen’s cell did.

Wala testified Allen came to the WCF already on suicide watch, and he remained there for approximately a month.
She also added that she visited with Allen — via a crack in his door — on a daily basis during that time.

This was presented in a motion or several motions by the defense and nothing came of it? Or is the motion pending? What an absolute disaster! During the time he made these 60+ confessions, he was eating his feces and receiving injected psychotropics, AND the psychologist's request to move him to a different facility was denied?! What is going on in Indiana??

 

[GoBuckeyes]

A guilty plea doesn’t buy him anything. He still goes to prison for life. His defense is rolling the dice. He could still go with an insanity plea, but it’s an affirmative defense in Indiana. The burden would be on RA’s defense team to prove he was mentally ill at the time of the crime.

2023 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 41. Substantive Criminal Provisions :: Chapter 4. Standard of Proof and Bars to Prosecution :: 35-41-4-1. Standard of Proof; Insanity Defense

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

jmo

And there's no DP in Indiana, right? Or am I mistaken?

 

[Salah11]

This was presented in a motion or several motions by the defense and nothing came of it? Or is the motion pending? What an absolute disaster! During the time he made these 60+ confessions, he was eating his feces and receiving injected psychotropics, AND the psychologist's request to move him to a different facility was denied?! What is going on in Indiana??

I wonder how much was playing acting to get away from the million of confessions. Hopefully we will hear at the trail if he had been in contact with his lawyers before these manic episodes started.

MOO

 

[SouthEnd]

And there's no DP in Indiana, right? Or am I mistaken?

There absolutely is DP in Indiana.

I have a lot of conflicting opinions about DP. The one thing I will say, from a cold, hard logic POV: It offers the Prosecution something to bargain with. If the DP is off the table, then people accused of heinous crimes, like RA, have no reason no to go to trial. There is very little the State could offer in a plea bargain that would not scandalise the families, with good reason.

The only motivation RA would have to plea would be to not put his family through the trial, but his family seems well up for it.

All IMO.

 

[SouthEnd]

I wonder how much was playing acting to get away from the million of confessions. Hopefully we will hear at the trail if he had been in contact with his lawyers before these manic episodes started.

MOO

My personal opinion is that it was not play acting to get away from the confessions.

My opinion is that this was the lashing out of a man who has struggled with control all his life, when faced with the consequences of his actions and when all control has been stripped away from him. Even the confessions, IMO, could be interpreted as him still being able to control something (even if that is just where he goes in the afterlife).

Lashing out, malingering, or having a psychotic break - they could all happen whether guilty or innocent. I don't think that his behaviour in Westfield bares too much weight when it comes to guilt/innocence. There are behaviours that can belie forced confessions; IMO throwing tantrums is not a mark of such behaviours.

 

[steeltowngirl]

And there's no DP in Indiana, right? Or am I mistaken?

There is a death penalty statute in Indiana. AFAIK, the state is not seeking the death penalty in the Delphi murder case.

https://fox59.com/news/the-death-penalty-inside-indianas-complicated-history-with-capital-punishment/

 

[katydid23]

Snipped by me, for focus.

Do we know what kind of psychotropic medication we are talking about there?

The word 'psychotropic' is powerful. But many substances, from mild anti-depressants like sertraline/fluoxetine, to nicotine (!), to clonazepam/diazepam (basically benzos) belong to that category. If someone is in manic state, breaking items and trying to hurt themselves/the guards, I understand injecting them with some kind of benzo/antipsychotic.

Now, if the proposition is that someone on benzos/antidepressants is more likely to confess? I would argue the opposite. They are most likely to become lethargic, because, sedatives, well. Cause sedation. Less likely to have the energy to, according to Dr Wala, anxiously ask for their therapist to call their family, and stay while they confess, IMO. Lithium, for example, is more likely to give you hard to understand, slurred speech than make you vulnerable to suggestions.

Again, it all depends on what type of psychotropic medication we are talking about, but IMO the most likely meds would not have been a contributing factor to the confessions. This is a list of common side effects for every psychotropic drug: https://www.hhs.texas.gov/sites/def...Psychotropic-Medications-and-Side-Effects.pdf

IIRC, Dr Wala said it was Haldol.

What is Haldol mainly used for?


Haloperidol treats schizophrenia and manages tics and vocal outbursts if you're diagnosed with Tourette's syndrome. It can also treat behavioral issues among children. This medication comes in a tablet form that you can take by mouth with a glass of water as directed. The brand name of haloperidol is Haldol®.

Haloperidol (Haldol): Uses & Side Effects - Cleveland Clinic​

 

[statt#1]

Imagine....if the psychotic episodes.....were the direct result of RA's conscience rising to the surface.....revealing to him exactly what he had done to those two girls. The reality of what he had done, the come to Jesus moment, the thoughts of eternity, the confessions, the confusion of his loved one's responses, the psychotic episodes.....were they all not in the same general time frame?

 

[katydid23]

My personal opinion is that it was not play acting to get away from the confessions.

My opinion is that this was the lashing out of a man who has struggled with control all his life, when faced with the consequences of his actions and when all control has been stripped away from him. Even the confessions, IMO, could be interpreted as him still being able to control something (even if that is just where he goes in the afterlife).

Lashing out, malingering, or having a psychotic break - they could all happen whether guilty or innocent. I don't think that his behaviour in Westfield bares too much weight when it comes to guilt/innocence. There are behaviours that can belie forced confessions; IMO throwing tantrums is not a mark of such behaviours.

Here is an interesting article about his tantrums:

Allen’s alleged confession to his wife​

Probably the biggest bombshell dropped in the documents was a jailhouse phone call between Allen and his wife, Kathy, on April 3 of this year. In the call, authorities said he admitted “several times” to kidnapping and killing Abby and Libby. What’s more, Kathy hung up on her husband — “abruptly ends the phone call” is the phrasing used in an April 20 motion by prosecutors.

Allen’s steep decline after the call​

Allen has not talked to his wife since Kathy hung up on him. In fact, authorities said he hasn’t made a single call, despite previously placing calls around twice a day since he was arrested. In the days after April 3, he refused to eat and sleep, and he destroyed the tablet he was given to send emails, listen to music and make phone calls, according to the prison warden. (It’s not clear whether these are the same as the “public jail phones” authorities said he used in the calls in which he allegedly confessed to Kathy and his mother.)

Shocking Details Of Delphi Murders And Suspect’s Health Revealed In Documents

The newly unsealed documents provide insight into what investigators found at the crime scene as well as their interactions with Richard Allen before and after his arrest.

www.huffpost.com

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/heal...hrenia and manages,of haloperidol is Haldol®.