Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[tlcya]

about Abby
“She had more crafts than you’d know what to do with,” Anna said. "She loved to make things for other people, she loved to be around other people."

Abby had recently been knitting tiny, colorful hats for newborns at the local hospital.
[snip]
Abby would run off with her mom’s camera when they were at weddings or other events.

She loved the outdoors and had an eye for the world around her, finding details most would miss.

“I do have pictures when she was little and our friend had a beautiful garden and I let her take it. It occurred to me how much at a foot and a half shorter – how different she did see things,” said Anna.
[snip]
about Libby
Liberty German dreamed of becoming a science teacher.

She was interested in solving crimes or finding clues and her curiosity in the sciences was serious business. She attended several classes at nearby Purdue University to try out different areas to see what interested her most.

She was a mature student, but still a teenager.

Liberty's grandparents said you could always tell when she was home from school.

You’d find a backpack near the door, socks and shoes strewn about the floor, a pile of books on the counter, ready for homework, and a sidetracked Libby already working on something else.
Delphi Daughters: Untold story of Abby & Libby

Just wanted to bring the living girls back into the conversation for a moment, to remember all that stolen potential.

 

[girlhasnoname]

#Justice4Abby&Libby


Photo by WRTV Indianapolis

 

[Trebor5591]

No one who is innocent has anything to fear from a search of his or her home.

IMO

I strongly disagree. IMO no one, innocent or guilty, should welcome government agents searching their homes, and be anything but fearful of a government search of their home. Especially since there are far too many cases of law enforcement "planting" evidence. To say otherwise is to be naive.

The Marshall Project has curated numerous reports on cases of police officers planting evidence across the U.S. These reports highlight widespread issues with police corruption and misconduct in various cities. (The Marshall Project).

I am not suggesting that evidence was planted in this case. Just that it's been known to happen in multiple cases. All IMO.

 

[TTF14]

The confessions will likely not get thrown out, but neither will the treatment RA received prior to making said “confessions.”

All MOO.

I hope you're right about the treatment he received being allowed in. If not, there is something seriously wrong in Indiana. Well, there is anyway.

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

No one who is innocent has anything to fear from a search of his or her home.

IMO

rsbm

In a perfect world, that might be true. It is absolutely not true in the world we live in.

IMO MOO

 

[tlcya]

According to the defense memo, “Click was concerned that for some reason the leadership of the investigative team had failed to share with (Carroll County) Prosecutor McLeland the evidence gathered by Click, Ferency, and Murphy. Click’s concerns led him to seek out a lawyer to assist him in the drafting of a letter. This letter was then sent to McLeland.” In a footnote to the document, it states the certified letter was received on May 1, 2023, and refers to a copy attached to the official filing, marked as Exhibit 3.

Rozzi and Baldwin’s memo further states that the defense was not made aware of this letter “until after it was obvious from the last round of depositions that the defense would certainly be talking to Todd Click.” The memo calls the letter “exculpatory in nature.”

In a statement released to Court TV, retired Rushville, Indiana officer Todd Click writes: “No one in law enforcement believes Abby and Libby were killed in a ritual sacrifice. That is the defense twisting facts for sensationalism.” Click did not agree to an interview, citing the gag-order in effect on witnesses and investigators in the case.
Delphi investigators: Defense 'twisting facts for sensationalism' over cult sacrifice claims

 

[TTF14]

According to the defense memo, “Click was concerned that for some reason the leadership of the investigative team had failed to share with (Carroll County) Prosecutor McLeland the evidence gathered by Click, Ferency, and Murphy. Click’s concerns led him to seek out a lawyer to assist him in the drafting of a letter. This letter was then sent to McLeland.” In a footnote to the document, it states the certified letter was received on May 1, 2023, and refers to a copy attached to the official filing, marked as Exhibit 3.

Rozzi and Baldwin’s memo further states that the defense was not made aware of this letter “until after it was obvious from the last round of depositions that the defense would certainly be talking to Todd Click.” The memo calls the letter “exculpatory in nature.”

In a statement released to Court TV, retired Rushville, Indiana officer Todd Click writes: “No one in law enforcement believes Abby and Libby were killed in a ritual sacrifice. That is the defense twisting facts for sensationalism.” Click did not agree to an interview, citing the gag-order in effect on witnesses and investigators in the case.
Delphi investigators: Defense 'twisting facts for sensationalism' over cult sacrifice claims

And six months after he said that, he said this:





Todd Click may have not thought it was a ritual sacrifice, but that does not mean he doesn't think they were involved in the murders. IMO, he still does think that.

Link to the entire transcript can be found in this article: READ: 3/18 Delphi Hearing Transcript, Police Officer Testifies to Other Potential Suspects

From the article, dated April 1, 2024, more than 6 months after the CourtTV piece: "... he felt the case against Richard Allen was weak. Click testified that there were other men with potential religious ties that presented stronger suspects, and he reached out to Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland about that."

IMO MOO

 

[Vern]

Yes of course “innocent”

He just happened to be dressed as the killer and on the bridge at the same time as the killer. That would be absolutely remarkable if true.

Well, he's innocent until proven guilty BARD.

Funny thing is, there's a lot of people out there who focus on the above line, yet never query/question a single thing the Defence has put out there --- just accept what the Defence has to say at face value 10 000% (the now-debunked by testimony under oath Frank's One anybody?). Nary a peep of questionning about any single one of the Defence's bits that don't fit the testified to facts we've learned thus far from the State (blood spatter, hanging, etc etc). That's not being "impartial" either IMO. And, IMO some of them have obviously already decided that RA is not guilty under any circumstance and despite any evidence that will come out at trial (because - to be clear - the State's evidence is still under seal for the most part).

Impartial jurors do swear that they are and can remain impartial until they've heard all the testimony and seen all of the evidence. Those impartial jurors will then see, hear and view the evidence in this trial. All of the evidence. They will question/consider what evidence the state brings forth and it will also query/consider what the defence brings forth. Then it will weigh them. Then it will render it's verdict as to their belief.

IMO, if impartial jurors need to rely on believing conspiracy theories and that every person who testifies (and had testified in hearings) under oath is a perjuror and liar who've been complicit since 2017 in setting up a man to take a fall for a murder he didn't commit at his trial years later to counter every single piece of physical, forensic, video and eye witness evidence, they may just find that unreasonable.

Again, some of that evidence was recovered at the crime scene in 2017 (bullet, RAs original statement etc) ... just why in heck would they wait years to finally arrest and try the guy they apparently have been conspiring to set up since 2017.

 

[Vern]

I strongly disagree. IMO no one, innocent or guilty, should welcome government agents searching their homes, and be anything but fearful of a government search of their home. Especially since there are far too many cases of law enforcement "planting" evidence. To say otherwise is to be naive.

The Marshall Project has curated numerous reports on cases of police officers planting evidence across the U.S. These reports highlight widespread issues with police corruption and misconduct in various cities. (The Marshall Project).

I am not suggesting that evidence was planted in this case. Just that it's been known to happen in multiple cases. All IMO.

Exactly. I agree.

That is exactly why actual Probable Cause is required to obtain a search warrant in the first place.

No one wants LE just willy nilly picking and choosing houses to search without regard to actual reasonable probable cause related to them having possibly been involved in the commission of a crime.

They met that burden for the search of RA's home. He, himself, placed himself at the scene (bridge platform) at the time of the crime and clothing generally matched that of the BG seen on video and by witnesses and he obviously couldn't give them an alibi other than "watching the stock ticker and fishes while on the bridge platform".

 

[tlcya]

The search warrant, signed by Carroll County Judge Benjamin Diener, who later recused himself from the case, authorized police to “diligently search for any and all information and/or evidence of the crime of Murder in violation of I.C. 35-42-1-1; specifically to search for handguns, .40 caliber ammunition, knives, blue sweatshirts/jackets, black sweatshirts/jackets, clothing, electronic devices and cell phone with phone number 317-612-4533; any other cell phones; and any other electronic devices located in or on the locations described above. Law enforcement is authorized to search these areas to determine whether or not there has been violation committed as described in the affidavit at the residence, in the yard, the vehicle and any appurtenances.”
https://fox59.com/indiana-news/atto...llen-want-search-warrant-evidence-thrown-out/

DT agued in their motion to suppress claimed these items could be found in any house in Indiana. I agree some could, but in most search warrants you will find items listed that could easily be explained as being normal to find in any other home.

What wasn't likely to be found in any other home in Indiana? A cell phone with phone number 317-612-4533 and a gun that matches unique rifling found on an unspent bullet at the crime scene.
---------------------------------------------------
In the probable cause affidavit used to bring murder charges against Allen, the Indiana State Police state the round was found “between the bodies of Victim 1 and Victim 2 was forensically determined to have been cycled through Richard Allen’s Sig Sauer Model P226.”
[snip]
Tool mark analysis has been used to produce evidence in trials for decades.
https://fox59.com/indiana-news/atto...ichard-allen-to-unspent-round-at-crime-scene/

 

[tlcya]

While arguing their Mot to compel and for sanctions DT argued the following:

“The week of August 5, 2023, the defense took several depositions. At the conclusion of that week, it became clear to the prosecution that the defense was pursuing information concerning certain Odinists that had been investigated by three law enforcement officers: Todd Click, Greg Ferency, and Kevin Murphy. On or about September 8, 2023 (nearly a month after said depositions) the prosecutor provided a daunting amount of newly discovered evidence, including a letter from Todd Click’s lawyer discussing Click’s concern, essentially, that the prosecution might be unaware of law enforcement’s investigation into Brad Holder, Patrick Westfall, Elvis Fields and others Click believed were likely involved in the murders. This letter and its contents were highly exculpatory,” the defense claims.
Attorneys cry foul - Carroll County Comet

Sometime in September 2023 Todd Click gave the statement to Court TV in which he stated:
“No one in law enforcement believes Abby and Libby were killed in a ritual sacrifice. That is the defense twisting facts for sensationalism.”

March of 2024 Click was called to testify. His testimony from that March hearing is linked here: March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf

page 15, line 25 through page 16, line 4.

Todd Click testifies under oath that he felt the evidence leading to charges against RA was "weak" and wondered why the evidence he gathered about potential alternate suspects hadn't been pursued or given more weight. [paraphrased by me]
March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf

to further paraphrase, Click had concerns that the prosecution was not aware of his alternate suspects. He wrote a letter to the prosecution on the advice of his attorney to make sure they were aware of his alternate suspects. Then his concerns were mischaracterized by DT in their Franks so he issued a statement to court TV denying what they stated his thoughts and impressions were and said they were "sensationalizing". Then he testified this spring that he did indeed send a letter to prosecution basically saying, hey were you all aware of all the work I did looking at "tom, Dick, and Harry"? you sure you have the right guy?

What he did NOT testify to in March 2024 was anything about ritual sacrifice and runes and much of the other drivel in the original Frank's Motion. Why? Because it was garbage sensationalized lies. JMO MOO

 

[vinayd]

Thank you for this @tlcya . I remember seeing his phone number in the original PCA but could never find it again. I wondered why he had an Indianapolis area code in Delphi. Sounds like a burner

 

[photographer4]

The F won't acquit or convict him, IMO. His 60+ confessions with details though just might do the trick. Also MO

I do think he will be convicted. I just hope he’s the right guy.

 

[Salah11]

Hopefully in a few months this will be all over and the Germans and Williams will be able to move on to the next stage of their lives without this evil man lurking over their shoulder.

 

[photographer4]

Snipped by me, for focus.

Do we know what kind of psychotropic medication we are talking about there?

The word 'psychotropic' is powerful. But many substances, from mild anti-depressants like sertraline/fluoxetine, to nicotine (!), to clonazepam/diazepam (basically benzos) belong to that category. If someone is in manic state, breaking items and trying to hurt themselves/the guards, I understand injecting them with some kind of benzo/antipsychotic.

Now, if the proposition is that someone on benzos/antidepressants is more likely to confess? I would argue the opposite. They are most likely to become lethargic, because, sedatives, well. Cause sedation. Less likely to have the energy to, according to Dr Wala, anxiously ask for their therapist to call their family, and stay while they confess, IMO. Lithium, for example, is more likely to give you hard to understand, slurred speech than make you vulnerable to suggestions.

Again, it all depends on what type of psychotropic medication we are talking about, but IMO the most likely meds would not have been a contributing factor to the confessions. This is a list of common side effects for every psychotropic drug: https://www.hhs.texas.gov/sites/def...Psychotropic-Medications-and-Side-Effects.pdf

Could he have had a paradoxical effect if he was on benzos?

 

[Curious38]

Well, he's innocent until proven guilty BARD.

Funny thing is, there's a lot of people out there who focus on the above line, yet never query/question a single thing the Defence has put out there --- just accept what the Defence has to say at face value 10 000% (the now-debunked by testimony under oath Frank's One anybody?). Nary a peep of questionning about any single one of the Defence's bits that don't fit the testified to facts we've learned thus far from the State (blood spatter, hanging, etc etc). That's not being "impartial" either IMO. And, IMO some of them have obviously already decided that RA is not guilty under any circumstance and despite any evidence that will come out at trial (because - to be clear - the State's evidence is still under seal for the most part).

Impartial jurors do swear that they are and can remain impartial until they've heard all the testimony and seen all of the evidence. Those impartial jurors will then see, hear and view the evidence in this trial. All of the evidence. They will question/consider what evidence the state brings forth and it will also query/consider what the defence brings forth. Then it will weigh them. Then it will render it's verdict as to their belief.

IMO, if impartial jurors need to rely on believing conspiracy theories and that every person who testifies (and had testified in hearings) under oath is a perjuror and liar who've been complicit since 2017 in setting up a man to take a fall for a murder he didn't commit at his trial years later to counter every single piece of physical, forensic, video and eye witness evidence, they may just find that unreasonable.

Again, some of that evidence was recovered at the crime scene in 2017 (bullet, RAs original statement etc) ... just why in heck would they wait years to finally arrest and try the guy they apparently have been conspiring to set up since 2017.

Why do you think they waited?

 

[tlcya]

Why do you think they waited?

not the OP but - human error is my guess.

 

[sunshineray]

Wala cannot testify to it for obvious reasons but I do wonder if some of their chats involved RA confessing to her or elaborating upon confessions he made to others and whether any details divulged aligned with the facts of the case.

I believe she can testify to what she heard, there's a statute of law that allows her to do that? Hasn't this been discussed here in detail?

 

[tlcya]

I believe she can testify to what she heard, there's a statute of law that allows her to do that? Hasn't this been discussed here in detail?

I have no idea if that is true or not. I was not present for those discussions.

There was a time period of several months that I bowed out of participating in this thread as the endless debate of whether Gull should recuse herself or be removed from the case raged on.

I have no wish to research the topic but assumed because of patient confidentiality she couldn't disclose the exact nature of their conversations unless someone was in imminent danger based on the content thereof.

That is my assumption only.

 

[sunshineray]

I have no idea if that is true or not. I was not present for those discussions.

There was a time period of several months that I bowed out of participating in this thread as the endless debate of whether Gull should recuse herself or be removed from the case raged on.

I have no wish to research the topic but assumed because of patient confidentiality she couldn't disclose the exact nature of their conversations unless someone was in imminent danger based on the content thereof.

That is my assumption only.

"The filing cites a law with a specific exception to that rule: “A psychologist licensed under this article may not disclose any information acquired from persons with whom the psychologist has dealt in a professional capacity, except under the following circumstances: Trials for homicide when the disclosure relates directly to the fact or immediate circumstances of said homicide.”

Prosecution in Delphi murders case asks to admit statements made to psychologist

Richard Allen was arrested in 2022 for the February 2017 murders of 13-year-old Abigail Williams and 14-year-old Liberty German.

wishtv.com

State's motion was granted for her records of RA.

Order Issued

State of Indiana's Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records (mental health records) filed March 14, 2024 granted without hearing. State of Indiana's Motion for Leave of Court to Subpoena Third-Party Records (medical records) filed March 14, 2024, granted without hearing.

Judicial Officer:
Gull, Frances -SJ

Order Signed:
04/02/2024