Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #193

[mrjitty]

Haldol is very unlikely to induce false confessions - but with the brain strange reactions due to genetic quirks can’t be ruled out.

Still, this paper states that ideally meds like haldol (halperidol) blocks 72% of the D2 dopamine receptors. I’m no MD so I wont swear to it, but I would think that would slow you down quite a bit.

Antipsychotic Medications - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

First-generation antipsychotics are dopamine receptor antagonists (DRA) and are known as typical antipsychotics. Second-generation antipsychotics are serotonin-dopamine antagonists and are also known as atypical antipsychotics. This activity outlines the indications, mechanism of action, safe...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

From some experience I think any discussion needs to be careful about mixing up anti-psychotics, sedatives, anti-depressives etc etc with the actual condition of psychosis

A psychosis involves by definition, a break with reality.

Psychosis refers to a collection of symptoms that affect the mind, where there has been some loss of contact with reality. During an episode of psychosis, a person’s thoughts and perceptions are disrupted and they may have difficulty recognizing what is real and what is not.

My opinion only - sedatives might be given so the person can get rest and recover. Anti-psychotics to prevent risk of relapse and of course related risk of depression. The idea that they would cause false confessions seems cart before horse.

All of that said, when someone is in a psychotic state, it is in my experience fairly obvious to a 3rd party observer, especially a professional - what is real and what is not.

Understanding Psychosis

This fact sheet presents information on psychosis including causes, signs and symptoms, treatment, and resources for help.

www.nimh.nih.gov

MOO

 

[snarast]

From some experience I think any discussion needs to be careful about mixing up anti-psychotics, sedatives, anti-depressives etc etc with the actual condition of psychosis

A psychosis involves by definition, a break with reality.



My opinion only - sedatives might be given so the person can get rest and recover. Anti-psychotics to prevent risk of relapse and of course related risk of depression. The idea that they would cause false confessions seems cart before horse.

All of that said, when someone is in a psychotic state, it is in my experience fairly obvious to a 3rd party observer, especially a professional - what is real and what is not.

Understanding Psychosis

This fact sheet presents information on psychosis including causes, signs and symptoms, treatment, and resources for help.

www.nimh.nih.gov

MOO

Well said - totally agree. I have seen some very unexpected responses to medications in people I know, so even though I’m definitely pro meds - I respect the feelings of those that have experienced adverse effects. And the experts who observed RA are by far the ones I would rely on.

 

[Betty P]

From some experience I think any discussion needs to be careful about mixing up anti-psychotics, sedatives, anti-depressives etc etc with the actual condition of psychosis

A psychosis involves by definition, a break with reality.



My opinion only - sedatives might be given so the person can get rest and recover. Anti-psychotics to prevent risk of relapse and of course related risk of depression. The idea that they would cause false confessions seems cart before horse.

All of that said, when someone is in a psychotic state, it is in my experience fairly obvious to a 3rd party observer, especially a professional - what is real and what is not.

Understanding Psychosis

This fact sheet presents information on psychosis including causes, signs and symptoms, treatment, and resources for help.

www.nimh.nih.gov

MOO

Excellent link. Evidence based and very helpful for following cases here at WS when considering whether psychosis played a role.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'm certain the jury will hear at least some of the confessions at trial (because that's where actual evidence is presented). All the ones he made while on the phone to his family member would be recorded at a minimum.

Not only audio recorded on phone calls, but video recorded. They kept RA under video surveillance so we'll see what was actually going on during these times of confessions.

What I doubt we'll see is a group of Odinist guards, taunting and forcing RA to say anything.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Haldol is very unlikely to induce false confessions - but with the brain strange reactions due to genetic quirks can’t be ruled out.

Still, this paper states that ideally meds like haldol (halperidol) blocks 72% of the D2 dopamine receptors. I’m no MD so I wont swear to it, but I would think that would slow you down quite a bit.

Antipsychotic Medications - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

First-generation antipsychotics are dopamine receptor antagonists (DRA) and are known as typical antipsychotics. Second-generation antipsychotics are serotonin-dopamine antagonists and are also known as atypical antipsychotics. This activity outlines the indications, mechanism of action, safe...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yes, like running head first into your cell bars. That indicates to me more anger than remorse.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Trials get delayed all the time for legitimate reasons. In this case, I would not be at all surprised if there's another delay due to late discovery of additional digital evidence (all my opinion). And, if there's late digital evidence the defense hasn't had a chance to analyze (or even the State for that matter), there should be a delay. That's not game playing. Wanting to be fully prepared to defend (or prosecute) isn't any kind of game.

IMO MOO

I wonder if that's the case if the DT will wait until the juror questionnaires go out and jury selection is starting, like they did that last time?

 

[sunshineray]

But unless he gave details only the killer would know before he received the discovery and before any guards or other personnel shared information with him they knew from the discovery, those confessions will be just some in a long line of confessions made while being, IMO, psychologically tortured.

IMO MOO

How was he psychologically tortured? Just by being locked up?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Trials get delayed all the time for legitimate reasons. In this case, I would not be at all surprised if there's another delay due to late discovery of additional digital evidence (all my opinion). And, if there's late digital evidence the defense hasn't had a chance to analyze (or even the State for that matter), there should be a delay. That's not game playing. Wanting to be fully prepared to defend (or prosecute) isn't any kind of game.

IMO MOO

True in the general sense, but this DT has been READY, according to them, since the Jan SCOIN hearings. They have proven time and again that they are not. Too many instances to list but not reading entirety of Discovery and surfing the net in search of a paid for Odin 'expert' in April for a May trial clues me in but also filing the STM and then withdrawing it a few days before?? All smoke and mirrors and game playing is putting it nicely.

There is absolutely misconduct in this case and it has been done by this so called DT from day 1 and continues on, and will, right up until they limp into a courtroom in Carroll County for trial.

BTW, if your client is unequivocally innocent why in the world are they not eagerly ready and waiting to prove it to the world? They can't IMO because RA=BG=Killer and the evidence is insurmountable.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Well said - totally agree. I have seen some very unexpected responses to medications in people I know, so even though I’m definitely pro meds - I respect the feelings of those that have experienced adverse effects. And the experts who observed RA are by far the ones I would rely on.

100%

My own belief is that external speculation based on "psychosis' has zero value.

e.g a person who is suffering a psychosis might reveal long held secrets that are true in the context of delusion. Which part is which will tend to be apparent to the professional.

MOO

 

[susiQ]

All my opinion.

There may be other actors that were involved, directly or indirectly. Other than those in LE, not sure how any of us would know at this point.

DD did take notes of his interview with Richard Allen. DD noted that RA stated he was there, arriving at 1:30. DD's notes will be entered into evidence.

The thing is, even if there are other actors, it doesn't take RA off the bridge. The evidence we, the public, are hearing is related to RA because he is the one at trial.

Well, it’s certainly very odd to me that after a total mental breakdown and “confessing” 61 times, RA has never once implicated any of the other actors including the one that confessed knowledge of the CS only one day following the murders. Never blurted out a name. Astounding actually. Not ONE name?? It is well documented that many LE believed this was committed by more than one person and people who knew something about the occult whether it was an actual occult ritual or made to look like one to frame them up. Yes, he was at the trails and bridge, like so many others that day. Nothing on RA’s devices shows him to be knowledgeable about occult practices or links him to these people. Do his devices link him with someone else local that is a killer? There’s quite a few of them in those parts.

Can’t wait for the “bombshell” evidence the P has against him. MOO

 

[WildHuncher]

All my opinion.

There may be other actors that were involved, directly or indirectly. Other than those in LE, not sure how any of us would know at this point.

DD did take notes of his interview with Richard Allen. DD noted that RA stated he was there, arriving at 1:30. DD's notes will be entered into evidence.

The thing is, even if there are other actors, it doesn't take RA off the bridge. The evidence we, the public, are hearing is related to RA because he is the one at trial.

Any “other actors” were probably a catfishing ring whose members had no idea RA was using their setup to plan murder. Hence no accessories or conspirators indicted. MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Well, it’s certainly very odd to me that after a total mental breakdown and “confessing” 61 times, RA has never once implicated any of the other actors including the one that confessed knowledge of the CS only one day following the murders. Never blurted out a name. Astounding actually. Not ONE name?? It is well documented that many LE believed this was committed by more than one person and people who knew something about the occult whether it was an actual occult ritual or made to look like one to frame them up. Yes, he was at the trails and bridge, like so many others that day. Nothing on RA’s devices shows him to be knowledgeable about occult practices or links him to these people. Do his devices link him with someone else local that is a killer? There’s quite a few of them in those parts.

Can’t wait for the “bombshell” evidence the P has against him. MOO

BBM
“nothing on RA’d devices shows him to be knowledgeable about occult practices”

Can you please link me to the evidence of this statement?

Thanks

 

[tlcya]

Well, it’s certainly very odd to me that after a total mental breakdown and “confessing” 61 times, RA has never once implicated any of the other actors including the one that confessed knowledge of the CS only one day following the murders. Never blurted out a name. Astounding actually. Not ONE name?? It is well documented that many LE believed this was committed by more than one person and people who knew something about the occult whether it was an actual occult ritual or made to look like one to frame them up. Yes, he was at the trails and bridge, like so many others that day. Nothing on RA’s devices shows him to be knowledgeable about occult practices or links him to these people. Do his devices link him with someone else local that is a killer? There’s quite a few of them in those parts.

Can’t wait for the “bombshell” evidence the P has against him. MOO

other actors? That presumes there were other actors for R to implicate? I'm having trouble following the RA didn't implicate alleged Odinists and didn't know any alleged Odinists so therefore his confessions must not be real. and I would disagree that it is well documented that many LE believed this was occult ritual performed by more than one individual.

I await the "bomshell" of hearing every last confession detailed at the trial and hearing the experts testifying that the bullet rifling is a match for RA's gun and that blood spatter is indeed just blood spatter.

 

[Willow Knight]

Well, it’s certainly very odd to me that after a total mental breakdown and “confessing” 61 times, RA has never once implicated any of the other actors including the one that confessed knowledge of the CS only one day following the murders. Never blurted out a name. Astounding actually. Not ONE name?? It is well documented that many LE believed this was committed by more than one person and people who knew something about the occult whether it was an actual occult ritual or made to look like one to frame them up. Yes, he was at the trails and bridge, like so many others that day. Nothing on RA’s devices shows him to be knowledgeable about occult practices or links him to these people. Do his devices link him with someone else local that is a killer? There’s quite a few of them in those parts.

Can’t wait for the “bombshell” evidence the P has against him. MOO

How exactly would we know if Richard Allen implicated any others? IMO, the defense would not tie RA into any CSAM, if he was involved with that garbage.

I believe the evidence is strong against RA, what is he going to say? Others were there? Why would RA even give ONE name that could identify him as the killer.

As far as occult activity, not seeing it here. I see and believe this was a sexual motivated crime. A brutal crime committed by an angry person.

I also believe LE did investigate all possibilities, IMO LE did NOT have tunnel vision.

Justice is coming for Libby and Abby. They waited long enough. Bring that trial on.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The defense has been holding this case hostage since day one.
They stupidly, very early on, at a time when they had only seen a teeny tiny bit of the evidence, declared RA as factually innocent.
Not one fact, presented under oath, has been presented to point to RA being not guilty. Heck, the defense has not presented in any form, a fact even hinting of RA’s innocence. I know they are not required to prove RA is innocent, but with all their big talk you know if there was just one fact they would be dancing in the streets about it.
Why are we here today still listening to their garbage? I don’t care if KA can’t deal with the thought of her husband being guilty, it’s the defense team’s responsibility to tell her it’s over. Their ridiculous FM has been totally dismantled as complete fiction.
I pointed out about a month ago what I thought was the core of this case. RA is still on that bridge, by his own admission, at the time the girls were approaching the bridge, and it is confirmed by witnesses and security video.
He is still there, and none of the lies and deflection from the defense can get him off that bridge.

 

[FrostedGlass]

BBM
“nothing on RA’d devices shows him to be knowledgeable about occult practices”

Can you please link me to the evidence of this statement?

Thanks

She MOOed. I take that as being her opinion.

 

[snarast]

Any “other actors” were probably a catfishing ring whose members had no idea RA was using their setup to plan murder. Hence no accessories or conspirators indicted. MOO

Or they catfished RA too. Set him up.

KAK has no alibi I would count on. He has, on the other hand, got 43 years for his related disgusting crimes.

Again - this is not implying that RA is necessarily innocent. But I have a very hard time getting around KAK and his father.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Dbm

 

[Curious38]

other actors? That presumes there were other actors for R to implicate? I'm having trouble following the RA didn't implicate alleged Odinists and didn't know any alleged Odinists so therefore his confessions must not be real. and I would disagree that it is well documented that many LE believed this was occult ritual performed by more than one individual.

I await the "bomshell" of hearing every last confession detailed at the trial and hearing the experts testifying that the bullet rifling is a match for RA's gun and that blood spatter is indeed just blood spatter.

Are occult rituals really a thing? I think hitting the lottery is more common. I can't think of many instances of this occurring. MOO

 

[Salah11]

The only man who can be placed on that bridge who was dressed like the killer and fat like the killer is RA. The same RA who has confessed so many times it’s hard to keep count. So he is either the killer or the unluckiest man alive.

IMO