Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #194

[tlcya]

And the defense said no, as is their right (they all have lives and schedules to coordinate), so the State said "fine, then we'll ask for you not to be allowed to do it at all."

Just let them do it. There is no time to waste!

Maybe this was strategic on NM's part to get JG to get on with issuing her ruling, like this afternoon maybe.

IMO JMO

emphasis by me, I wondered about that as well. Frankly, it would be best for both sides if they could get a ruling on that sooner rather than later so they can ALL plan and schedule accordingly. MOO

 

[m00c0w]

Then he should wait until the ruling to file the motions to quash (Except Tobe) which will likely be before the 28th.

We don’t know when the ruling will be. As a side effect, if the court does rule against Odinism being admitted, she can also still grant these motions to cancel the subpoenas and prevent there being a last minute rush.

MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

Is this all circumstantial evidence? Perhaps. But it points an arrow at one person.

<rsbm>

I think you know this Arkay, just wanting to point out for others who think that circumstantial evidence is not as critical as direct.

Most convictions are based on heavy circumstantial evidence.

The Difference between circumstantial evidence and direct evidence is that circumstantial is evidence is open to reasonable interpretation by a reasonable person reviewing it (i.e. even autopsy results are circumstantial because they are open to interpretation, whether by the medical examiner, LE, or the public). Direct evidence on the other hand does not require interpretation (eye witness accounts, surveillance video of the murder).

 

[m00c0w]

And the defense said no, as is their right (they all have lives and schedules to coordinate), so the State said "fine, then we'll ask for you not to be allowed to do it at all."

Just let them do it. There is no time to waste!

Maybe this was strategic on NM's part to get JG to get on with issuing her ruling, like this afternoon maybe.

IMO JMO

I think something that may be missed here (not by you, necessarily) is that the state will ultimately be paying for all of this. Lawyer hours, transportation costs, transcription services, etc. It will be a very expensive pile of worthless papers and recordings if JG rules it can’t be admitted in the first place. It makes a ton of sense to just wait until after she rules to avoid wasting everyone’s time. The defense would also be wasting their precious time in that event, which they could be using to prepare other strategies.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

<rsbm>

I think you know this Arkay, just wanting to point out for others who think that circumstantial evidence is not as critical as direct.

Most convictions are based on heavy circumstantial evidence.

The Difference between circumstantial evidence and direct evidence is that circumstantial is evidence is open to reasonable interpretation by a reasonable person reviewing it (i.e. even autopsy results are circumstantial because they are open to interpretation, whether by the medical examiner, LE, or the public). Direct evidence on the other hand does not require interpretation (eye witness accounts, surveillance video of the murder).

Exactly.

The analogy I've seen is - if you go outside in the morning, the sky is clear, but the grass is covered in snow, then it's a reasonable interpretation that it snowed last night. You don't have the direct evidence - you didn't witness it falling - but it's far more reasonable to conclude that it snowed than that the snow got there by some other, far more unlikely means.

Very few cases rely on direct evidence to secure a conviction. DNA, fingerprints, footprints, digital data... all these things are the bread and butter of successful prosecutions. And they're all considered to be generally more reliable than eyewitness accounts, which are direct evidence.

MOO

 

[susiQ]

Of course.

When can a motion just be a motion?

IMO MOO

MOO but the requests in the motion are in no way unreasonable. If they are denied, perhaps a delay would fall at the feet of the court? MOO

 

[photographer4]

for what it's worth, I don't think it is too ridiculous a request, depending on what they are fishing for in the prison records relating to Wala, and whether it is relevant to their case. I do worry that it is just that, a fishing expedition, and IMO the time for that is over. but I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until I have a better understanding of what they are trying to glean from their request.

ah hah. And now we know why DT wants to use it and State doesn't want them to.

Sorry. Dbm. Send coffee. Lots of coffee.

 

[photographer4]

yes. Although frankly if the DT wants to waste their short time left before trial deposing a witness that may not be used if the judge rules against the Odinism/heathenry defense that is kind of on them MOO. Similar to the questionnaire that just went out with questions about those topics, both sides need to be prepared to move forward whichever way the judge rules on that.

But if she rules it’s allowed and they haven’t deposed they may be screwed. Moo

 

[m00c0w]

Sounds like the open portion of the hearing was cancelled.

In the Delphi murder case: Judge holds one status hearing Friday afternoon behind closed doors in case against suspect Richard Allen. A second scheduled hearing, expected to be in public hearing, is canceled, without explanation.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1827046285871898929

(This guy has been cited in previous threads and seems to have credible reporting regarding the hearings so far)

 

[photographer4]

Sounds like the open portion of the hearing was cancelled.

In the Delphi murder case: Judge holds one status hearing Friday afternoon behind closed doors in case against suspect Richard Allen. A second scheduled hearing, expected to be in public hearing, is canceled, without explanation.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1827046285871898929

(This guy has been cited in previous threads and seems to have credible reporting regarding the hearings so far)

Is this an approved source then? Or we aren’t sure but hope it will become one?

 

[m00c0w]

Is this an approved source then? Or we aren’t sure but hope it will become one?

I'm not sure - I've just seen them posted multiple times so assume it is one.

 

[TTF14]

A second hearing was canceled after a first private hearing. Was a plea deal reached?

 

[iamshadow21]

I'm not sure - I've just seen them posted multiple times so assume it is one.

He's a legitimate reporter who has worked for MSM throughout his career. Seems to be doing his own thing now, reporting on Lafayette news.

 

[m00c0w]

Secondary source confirming the same. This guy is a local reporter.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1827049921511358529

 

[TTF14]

Secondary source confirming the same. This guy is a local reporter.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1827049921511358529

So does this mean no public hearing or no hearing altogether?

 

[m00c0w]

So does this mean no public hearing or no hearing altogether?

From what I can gather, there was a closed hearing. For some reason (ostensibly something that occurred during the closed hearing), the open hearing was subsequently cancelled.

MOO

 

[tlcya]

A second hearing was canceled after a first private hearing. Was a plea deal reached?

I very much doubt it. I suspect it has more to do with the public not knowing how to properly behave in a courtroom but we shall see.

 

[tlcya]

Victim's families, reporters turned away at murder suspect Richard Allen's hearing in Delphi

 

[Ravenmoon]

I very much doubt it. I suspect it has more to do with the public not knowing how to properly behave in a courtroom but we shall see.

I agree.
People can't follow orders.
One bad apple spoiling the bunch.

 

[photographer4]

I very much doubt it. I suspect it has more to do with the public not knowing how to properly behave in a courtroom but we shall see.

The amount of secrecy in this case is bizzare.