Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #194

[photographer4]

Really?
The defense attorneys certainly aren’t upset about any delays.
They are the sole reason for all of the delays so far. Add to that the fact that they have been completely unprepared for every previously scheduled trial date, it’s easy to conclude that his own attorneys are the reason he is still behind bars.
The defense has known for a long time that they cannot win at trial, why they continue to torture the community, the families and even their own client is the real question.

Opinion

They are kinda legally *obligated* to defend and take direction from RA. If he tells them he wants to proceed to trial, then I'm afraid they have no choice but to... ya know... go to trial - short of stepping down, in which case I am sure JG would simply appoint someone new to do the same thing. If the Defense counsel happen to torture the community et al by doing what they're legally obligated to do here, well, there isn't anything to be done about it, is there?

 

[photographer4]

Maybe the podcasters and YouTubers did receive a copy, but are treading carefully due to the leak, the gag order, and the drama in the courtroom a while ago with various social media players.

WANE chose to push the envelope. They have teams of lawyers to protect them, should it come to that. Aside from MS, who are themselves attorneys, only one of which is an attorney, perhaps most social media hosts do not have a legal team at the ready.

jmo
edit: correction on MS

Are you saying the purported questionnaire presented to the public by WANE 15 was covered by a gag order or a protective order? If so, would the outlet not be in contravention of a court order? I'm confused. Are you saying they'd be willing to take on JG and a gag order just to push the story out?

 

[photographer4]

They were there yesterday and they put out an episode last night.

I could google this, but I really dislike podcasts etc so someone pls spare me the search -- did MS put out an episode about the Juror Questionnaire or just about the private and cancelled hearing from yesterday in general? Thanks in advance.

EDITED to note that someone upthread already answered this - thanks.

 

[photographer4]

A refresher on what Judge Gull's GAG ORDER actually covers:

12/02/2022

Order Issued The Court issues an order granting the State's Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing Any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication in whole, pending hearing which the Court has scheduled for January 13, 2023 at 10:00 am in the Carroll Circuit Court. Violations of this Order are punishable as Contempt of Court and subject the violator to a fine and/or incarceration. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ

Does not appear to cover members of the general public which is where WANE 15 asserted they received a copy of the doc from (a family member of one of their employees). Further, given that the hearing in question did not take place that was scheduled for Jan 23, 2023, does that order still apply? Does it just roll over without explicit statement until the conclusion of the trial? I'm not a a lawyer, so if someone who is wants to chime in... I'd appreciate it!

 

[justtrish]

I could google this, but I really dislike podcasts etc so someone pls spare me the search -- did MS put out an episode about the Juror Questionnaire or just about the private and cancelled hearing from yesterday in general? Thanks in advance.

I don't believe the questionnaire was discussed. I am always multitasking so I could have missed part of a discussion about the questionnaire, but I don't believe so. It mostly was about the recent filings in this case. It was going to be about the hearing, but since it was cancelled, they noted that and then covered the filings.

 

[photographer4]

I don't believe the questionnaire was discussed. I am always multitasking so I could have missed part of a discussion about the questionnaire, but I don't believe so. It mostly was about the recent filings in this case. It was going to be about the hearing, but since it was cancelled, they noted that and then covered the filings.

Thanks! Much appreciated.

 

[ClearAhead]

I don't believe this was a "leak" at all. Is there a law / court order in place that would prohibit the media's publication of this?

2. If it was a fraudulent document (which it may have been), then it isn't a leak at all, is it? If it wasn't actually from the courts, then it certainly isn't in breech of any orders / laws imo. If it were a fraud though, could it constitute interference in an ongoing criminal case or a mischief charge against someone? Just curious.

Unfortunately the legal expert didn’t explain what was ‘unconventional’ about it.

(story has been deleted)
Juror questionnaire in Delphi homicide case ‘unconventional’ says legal expert | WANE 15

 

[steeltowngirl]

Are you saying the purported questionnaire presented to the public by WANE 15 was covered by a gag order or a protective order? If so, would the outlet not be in contravention of a court order? I'm confused. Are you saying they'd be willing to take on JG and a gag order just to push the story out?

No. Another poster said it was odd that none of the podcasters had covered the purported questionnaire. We already have WANE’s contention that they did their legal homework and the release of the questionnaire did not violate a gag order.

So - I’m saying that even if the podcasters had a copy, they may have chosen to not discuss it - basically, out of an abundance of caution. WANE ran with it. They did their legal homework.

Yet, they have since pulled the article, but the video stands. We don’t know why. Discretion? Questionnaire was a fake? We don’t know.

jmo

 

[FrostedGlass]

Does not appear to cover members of the general public which is where WANE 15 asserted they received a copy of the doc from (a family member of one of their employees). Further, given that the hearing in question did not take place that was scheduled for Jan 23, 2023, does that order still apply? Does it just roll over without explicit statement until the conclusion of the trial? I'm not a a lawyer, so if someone who is wants to chime in... I'd appreciate it!

I'd love to hear from an atty, too.

The judge came back to the gag order here. This is only part of her order, the rest addresses the docs that had been sealed and unsealed (big doc dump)

06/28/2023

Order Issued The Court has reviewed the electronic file recently and discovered many pleadings and filings have been marked as sealed and confidential, and, therefore, unavailable to the public The Court has consulted with Counsel for the State of Indiana and the Defense and discovered the pleadings have been deemed confidential to comply with the Court Order dated December 2, 2022 which prohibits public comment, commonly referred to as the "Gag Order". Counsel agree with the Court that the public interest is best served by transparency, but that certain pleadings should remain sealed.

This is her only other mention that I see (IN PART)

05/01/2024

Order Issued ... The State has also alleged that defense counsel violated the "gag order" issued by the Court on December 2, 2022. Defense counsel issued a Press Release on December 1, 2022. The release contained statements that are potentially violative of the Rules of Professional Conduct. As Defense Counsels' Counsel correctly argues in his post-hearing brief, the gag order was not yet issued. As such, the Court declines to find Counsel in contempt of Court as no Order was in place. ...

 

[Willow Knight]

MOO
I wonder if the P found the news article? In this video, he looks pretty serious. The judge looks good, relaxed and appears to be interacting with the LE accompanying her.

https://fox59.com/indiana-news/status-hearing-friday-in-delphi-murders-case/

As Richard Allen is getting out of the vehicle, there is a 'band' on his right wrist. Anyone know what that is, never saw it on him before?

 

[iamshadow21]

As Richard Allen is getting out of the vehicle, there is a 'band' on his right wrist. Anyone know what that is, never saw it on him before?

Prisoner identification bracelet? I think they're pretty standard in many countries these days. Can't be removed and have a RFID chip in them.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Does not appear to cover members of the general public which is where WANE 15 asserted they received a copy of the doc from (a family member of one of their employees). Further, given that the hearing in question did not take place that was scheduled for Jan 23, 2023, does that order still apply? Does it just roll over without explicit statement until the conclusion of the trial? I'm not a a lawyer, so if someone who is wants to chime in... I'd appreciate it!

Delphi Murders: Judge rules on gag order & trial location​

---

by Erica Finke, WSBT 22 Reporter
Fri, January 13th 2023 at 12:09 PM
Updated Fri, January 13th 2023 at 6:06 PM

In Friday's hearing, Special Judge Frances Gull made the gag order permanent -- it was temporarily put in place just days after Allen's probable cause documents were made public.

Delphi murders: Judge rules on gag order & trial location

Two, key decisions were made in a Carroll County courtroom on Friday regarding the 2017 murders of two teenage girls in Delphi, Indiana.It was a madhouse in Nov

wsbt.com

 

[susiQ]

No. Another poster said it was odd that none of the podcasters had covered the purported questionnaire. We already have WANE’s contention that they did their legal homework and the release of the questionnaire did not violate a gag order.

So - I’m saying that even if the podcasters had a copy, they may have chosen to not discuss it - basically, out of an abundance of caution. WANE ran with it. They did their legal homework.

Yet, they have since pulled the article, but the video stands. We don’t know why. Discretion? Questionnaire was a fake? We don’t know.

jmo

It does seem odd that they would take down the article but not the video that shows actual pages of the questionnaire, names and all. I’m left with the impression that the document is indeed authentic and they feel they have nothing to fear in reporting on it? JMO

 

[photographer4]

No. Another poster said it was odd that none of the podcasters had covered the purported questionnaire. We already have WANE’s contention that they did their legal homework and the release of the questionnaire did not violate a gag order.

So - I’m saying that even if the podcasters had a copy, they may have chosen to not discuss it - basically, out of an abundance of caution. WANE ran with it. They did their legal homework.

Yet, they have since pulled the article, but the video stands. We don’t know why. Discretion? Questionnaire was a fake? We don’t know.

jmo

Thank you for clarifying. I was the poster who said it is odd none of the podcasters etc had covered the purported questionnaire. If WANE says they did their legal homework and were legally allowed to release the document, then they probably are in the clear.

But you'd think that MS etc would be all over this!? The document lists several of the SODDI folks discussed by the D and appears significant imo. I do not believe they would err on the side of caution given they were the ones who (legally) released the RL document(s) which is discussed here: Search warrant reveals Delphi murder suspect may have taken souvenir, 'staged' scene. It seems to me that if something is legally fair game, this particular podcast would be all over it. Again, MOOOOO.

And now knowing that the media has reported on the 600 surveys having been sent out, you'd think someone in the community would have started to discuss this either online or in the news and yet, still nothing?? Weird.

I wonder if there will be new filings in coming days that might hint at what happened in the private hearing and why the public one was cancelled? I wonder if more news will come out in coming weeks that the questionnaires have been sent out and if we can then confirm or debunk this one... MOOOOO.

 

[TTF14]

It does seem odd that they would take down the article but not the video that shows actual pages of the questionnaire, names and all. I’m left with the impression that the document is indeed authentic and they feel they have nothing to fear in reporting on it? JMO

Isn't the video through Yahoo, though? I'm not familiar with how Yahoo gets a hold of other network's videos and posts them (what the agreements are or whatever). Maybe WANE can't force Yahoo to remove it?

IMO MOO

 

[photographer4]

Delphi Murders: Judge rules on gag order & trial location​

---

by Erica Finke, WSBT 22 Reporter
Fri, January 13th 2023 at 12:09 PM
Updated Fri, January 13th 2023 at 6:06 PM

In Friday's hearing, Special Judge Frances Gull made the gag order permanent -- it was temporarily put in place just days after Allen's probable cause documents were made public.

Delphi murders: Judge rules on gag order & trial location

Two, key decisions were made in a Carroll County courtroom on Friday regarding the 2017 murders of two teenage girls in Delphi, Indiana.It was a madhouse in Nov

wsbt.com

Thanks!

 

[mrjitty]

I don’t see the RL situation is relevant. It’s already been reported RL himself was the source of the Search Warrant PCA. so of course media would report it.

in this case, as far as we know, only WANE claim to have possession of the document.

Is it really normal for the media to track down the jury questionnaire? i don’t see the big deal.

IMO.

 

[susiQ]

Isn't the video through Yahoo, though? I'm not familiar with how Yahoo gets a hold of other network's videos and posts them (what the agreements are or whatever). Maybe WANE can't force Yahoo to remove it?

IMO MOO

Oh yes! I didn’t notice that. You might be onto something! Time will tell if it remains much longer?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Thank you for clarifying. I was the poster who said it is odd none of the podcasters etc had covered the purported questionnaire. If WANE says they did their legal homework and were legally allowed to release the document, then they probably are in the clear.

But you'd think that MS etc would be all over this!? The document lists several of the SODDI folks discussed by the D and appears significant imo. I do not believe they would err on the side of caution given they were the ones who (legally) released the RL document(s) which is discussed here: Search warrant reveals Delphi murder suspect may have taken souvenir, 'staged' scene. It seems to me that if something is legally fair game, this particular podcast would be all over it. Again, MOOOOO.

And now knowing that the media has reported on the 600 surveys having been sent out, you'd think someone in the community would have started to discuss this either online or in the news and yet, still nothing?? Weird.

I wonder if there will be new filings in coming days that might hint at what happened in the private hearing and why the public one was cancelled? I wonder if more news will come out in coming weeks that the questionnaires have been sent out and if we can then confirm or debunk this one... MOOOOO.

The RL warrant and KAK interview releases were a long time ago. Both were before RA’s arrest, and the gag order.

There has been a lot of drama in this case involving social media, leaks, etc. Maybe the social media folks are going to lay a little low until trial.

I can only hope.

jmo

 

[girlhasnoname]

The final comment by this reporter is priceless. The prosecution stating that the D are trying to “annoy, embarrass and oppress them.” (Emphasis added by me, while I’m killing myself laughing!) MOO

I believe this Defense has done exactly that to The Court, Judge Gull and the Prosecution and the public in general.

I do believe it is their misconduct and sorely lacking social skills of reading the room that will help send their client right up the river, where I believe he belongs.

I find absolutely nothing about their actions during this trial funny in the least, we are talking about two murdered children. They're planning a Netflix Special or some other TV Special. They are so desperate it reeks from Indiana on.

JMO